Prospect Info: 2018-2019 Prospect Stats, Reports and Discussion

[CupofOil]

It doesn’t count as a pro season according to his contract. It’s not a pro season and I think it’s incredibly disingenuous to say it was his first pro season.

Ok, but you know what I meant.
I'll amend it for you. His first 33 games as a pro over 2 seasons has been a bit underwhelming offensively.

 

[nabob]

Ok, but you know what I meant.
I'll amend it for you. His first 33 games as a pro over 2 seasons has been a bit underwhelming offensively.

So according to Jaded we should write him off as being a top 6 player.

We probably should have done that with Draisaitl and others like Smyth who struggled in an incredibly small sample size to start their NHL careers as teenagers. I realize you’re not saying that, just that it’s rediculous that Jade is. That kind of ignorance blows my mind.

 

[nabob]

Ok, but you know what I meant.
I'll amend it for you. His first 33 games as a pro over 2 seasons has been a bit underwhelming offensively.

If you factor in some adjustment periods and how he has been shuffled back and forth and back and forth his time in the AHL has been pretty good and about what should be expected for 11 games. I don’t count his 9 game trial last year as anything and he shouldn’t have even played in the NHL yet this season. To say a player won’t be a top 6 player based on that is...interesting. (I get you’re not saying that, but others are)

 

[Aceboogie]

But the reality is that most NHLers that are offensive top-6 guys WERE tearing up juniors as teenagers. What you do as a draft+2 is much less important than what you do in your draft year, or even draft-1 actually. What Maksimov is doing right now means next to nothing. What he does next year as a 20 year old in the AHL means a LOT more.

Benson is at least treading water in the AHL. He's not doing terribly, but isn't doing well enough to expect production in the NHL either. He is however showing enough offence to be in the "Brodziak tier" of prospects. He should be a guy that can play in the bottom 6 and not be an offensive black hole.

Benson has 24 points in 35 games and a key component on a first line as a rookie in the AHL. Thats the definition of doing well

 

[CupofOil]

So according to Jaded we should write him off as being a top 6 player.

We probably should have done that with Draisaitl and others like Smyth who struggled in an incredibly small sample size to start their NHL careers as teenagers. I realize you’re not saying that, just that it’s rediculous that Jade is. That kind of ignorance blows my mind.

Jaded often goes to ridiculous extremes but I think his general point is to not count your chickens before they hatch (which is what he's doing as well but I digress).

I guess it was in response to those saying that this crop of prospects is different. We won't know it's different until the results start showing in the NHL.
So far we've seen Pulju struggle mightily in now his 3rd NHL season, Yamamoto put up 1 goal in his first 20 games or so and Jones have a few nice games. Still very early days, but I get the skepticism.

 

[Aceboogie]

Jaded often goes to ridiculous extremes but I think his general point is to not count your chickens before they hatch (which is what he's doing as well but I digress).

I guess it was in response to those saying that this crop of prospects is different. We won't know it's different until the results start showing in the NHL.
So far we've seen Pulju struggle mightily in now his 3rd NHL season, Yamamoto put up 1 goal in his first 20 games or so and Jones have a few nice games. Still very early days, but I get the skepticism.

Id agree with this too as well. Every 5 years we see a new crop of prospects, and at the start of their "life cycle" fans always get way overhyped. Then 5 years later they are in Europe

Ethan Bear was hyped pretty big time last year for a small sample of games
Marincin before him was hyped due to one good NHL season (I was guilty here)
Then add the dozens of prospects who did well/good in juniors and AHL and did nothing in the NHL. But fans were pencilling them into 3rd line roles when they were 19/20

 

[nabob]

Jaded often goes to ridiculous extremes but I think his general point is to not count your chickens before they hatch (which is what he's doing as well but I digress).

I guess it was in response to those saying that this crop of prospects is different. We won't know it's different until the results start showing in the NHL.
So far we've seen Pulju struggle mightily in now his 3rd NHL season, Yamamoto put up 1 goal in his first 20 games or so and Jones have a few nice games. Still very early days, but I get the skepticism.

I agree with the not counting your chickens part. Remember when Martindale and Hamilton were going to be good top 6 players? Shudder.

 

[CupofOil]

I agree with the not counting your chickens part. Remember when Martindale and Hamilton were going to be good top 6 players? Shudder.

And of course Pitlick stays healthy once he leaves here.
I remember seeing Hamilton at the WJC and thinking that he could be a 2nd line forward for us one day. Woof

 

[Okanagan]

You OHL guys, can you give your thoughts on Bouchard vs Chabot? Looking at the pre draft scouting reports and junior stats gives some hope that Bouchard will turn out ok.

Chabot is a better skater and his defensive play has improved over the years. Areas where Bouchard needs to improve, but the raw offensive talent seems to be there.

 

[Senor Catface]

delete

 

[Senor Catface]

There are some guys having pretty good years but I'd say that it's a pretty average pool compared to the rest of the league if not in the bottom half. Until these guys start making some impacts at the pro level, it's hard to get too excited. Benson is having a nice rookie season so that's a positive but I see him as more of a middle 6 winger, that's our best prospect down there currently. The other high scoring forwards in Bako, Marody and Hebig, are longshots to be every day NHLers IMO.

Your comment is a contradiction.

You say that what matters is prospects having an impact at the pro level.

Then of course, the players that ARE having an impact in the pros, in their rookie seasons no less, are longshots just because.

I mean, you see how that doesn't compute?

 

[belair]

@oilers'72 has done an absolutely stellar job with his reports of our prospects in this thread. Enough so that I think this thread can be set aside for a productive discussion regarding the individual prospects and not just another thread where people can sidetrack the discussion with their incessant negativity.

If you really feel compelled to tell the world you don't think these prospects will ever amount to anything, start a new thread and state your case. Stating that crap in here just buries his posts--and he's the only guy doing actual work in here.

 

[CupofOil]

Your comment is a contradiction.

You say that what matters is prospects having an impact at the pro level.

Then of course, the players that ARE having an impact in the pros, in their rookie seasons no less, are longshots just because.

I mean, you see how that doesn't compute?

Marody is a 4th? round pick and Hebig was an undrafted overager signing, both has skating issues. Both are longshots to be impact NHLers IMO. Not all good AHLers are created equally. I can see why it looked like I contradicted myself, I should have clarified.

@belair
If posters are allowed to say how awesome all the prospects are then others are allowed to provide a counter opinion. It's up to the mods if they want to leave this thread for stat posting only, it's not up to you to play mod.

Sorry for sidetracking this thread and I'd also like to add a kudos to @oilers'72 for all his hard work keeping this thread updated. It is appreciated.

 

[belair]

Marody is a 4th? round pick and Hebig was an undrafted overager signing, both has skating issues. Both are longshots to be impact NHLers IMO. Not all good AHLers are created equally. I can see why it looked like I contradicted myself, I should have clarified.

@belair
If posters are allowed to say how awesome all the prospects are then others are allowed to provide a counter opinion. It's up to the mods if they want to leave this thread for stat posting only, it's not up to you to play mod.

Sorry for sidetracking this thread and I'd also like to add a kudos to @oilers'72 for all his hard work keeping this thread updated. It is appreciated.

Discussion about a particular prospect is fine. But when someone comes in here and blindly states how the entire group is 'nothing special' and then goes on a tangent to describe how everyone else's prospect group is equal to or better than this one, it doesn't provide anything of value to the discussion. It's pure pessimism. And it makes reading these boards intolerable.

Show @oilers'72 some respect. This is a thread with quality content. Don't fill it with that nonsense.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Discussion about a particular prospect is fine. But when someone comes in here and blindly states how the entire group is 'nothing special' and then goes on a tangent to describe how everyone else's prospect group is equal to or better than this one, it doesn't provide anything of value to the discussion. It's pure pessimism. And it makes reading these boards intolerable.

Show @oilers'72 some respect. This is a thread with quality content. Don't fill it with that nonsense.

Saying something like "Benson is having a round few games" is fine. Saying "none of our prospects are worth anything until they have a good NHL season" is silly

 

[CupofOil]

Discussion about a particular prospect is fine. But when someone comes in here and blindly states how the entire group is 'nothing special' and then goes on a tangent to describe how everyone else's prospect group is equal to or better than this one, it doesn't provide anything of value to the discussion. It's pure pessimism. And it makes reading these boards intolerable.

Show @oilers'72 some respect. This is a thread with quality content. Don't fill it with that nonsense.

When people post that "this time it will be different", I'm damn well within my rights to counter that with my opinion that I'll believe it when I see it. I'm also allowed to have the opinion that I don't believe this prospect pool isn't anything overly special.

It's your opinion that the only quality content is the opinions that are purely positive.
You're just cluttering up this thread even more with this holier than thou attitude that nobody can say anything that isn't glowing about our prospects. Why don't you show some respect for your fellow posters to be able to share an opinion without being attacked? Nothing I said was unreasonable when you really look at it. I didn't say that these guys won't pan out or anything absolute like that.

 

[McJadeddog]

Yes, however they're also two different types of player. Besides the obvious that one is a defenseman and one is a forward, Bouchard was drafted for his offense so that's what you expect to see from him whereas Benson was drafted for his all around game and that's what you expect to see from him as well and that hopefully he could elevate his game to the pre-injury level relative to his peers. Bouchard needs to work on his defense, that was in evidence again at the WJC. Benson needs to work on his skating and hopefully get his offensive game to a level where he can contribute regularly at the NHL level.

You would expect Bouchard to have the higher upside and production relative to his position/peers. Benson's production is good considering the type of player he is and the expectations coming into the year. If you were expecting him to produce in the AHL like a guy who's a shoe-in for a top 6 NHL role you were bound to be underwhelmed, or maybe just whelmed, I'm not 100% clear on your level of satisfaction with Benson. You also might be missing the bigger picture of Benson's game if your focus is on how many points he's putting up.

Fair points.

To be more clear on my expectations of Benson, although I have said this numerous times on this board already: bottom-6 winger, who has enough offence to pinch-hit on the 2nd line wing as an injury fill-in, or to provide a bit more of a defensive conscience on the line. Likely a guy who will PK after a couple years in the NHL. Could end up having a pretty long career, especially if he is willing to change his game to be a bit more defensive focused.

 

[McJadeddog]

But I thought how a player performs in junior in their draft +1 or draft +2 seasons don't matter. The 20 year old AHL season matters?

Correct. Bouchard's season last year is a lot more important than this year. If you want to use stats from last year, all those same points stand, as Bouchard led all dmen in scoring last year (by a healthy margin as well). He even led his team in scoring by a ridiculously wide margin as well (30 points). So I'm happy to compare Bouchard's draft year to Benson's 20 year old season if you want, all my points are exactly the same.

 

[McJadeddog]

Yamamoto would be down there as well if he was healthy. If he would have spent the whole season he’d likel be among the league leaders in rookie scoring.

Correct. Yamo is actually the only prospect we have that looks like be might end up a top-6 option. I don't know if he'd be among league leaders for sure, but the small sample size would indicate as such.

 

[McJadeddog]

So according to Jaded we should write him off as being a top 6 player.

We probably should have done that with Draisaitl and others like Smyth who struggled in an incredibly small sample size to start their NHL careers as teenagers. I realize you’re not saying that, just that it’s rediculous that Jade is. That kind of ignorance blows my mind.

The complete opposite. In fact I just made a post indicating that I think he's the only prospect with a good shot at being a top-6 option. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though, it's especially great when you are 100% wrong. Well done!

 

[oilers'72]

On Saturday, Evan Bouchard had 3 assists, 3 shots, was +3 and named second star, as the Knights went full 1367 on the 67s 5-3.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Jan. 12/19 – OTT (3) – LDN (5) – Ontario Hockey League

Ryan McLeod had an assist, 2 shots, won 9 of 17 faceoffs and was +2, as the Spirit scared the Spitfires 6-3.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Jan. 12/19 – WSR (3) – SAG (6) – Ontario Hockey League

On Sunday, Dmitri Samorukov had no points, a shot and was +3, as the Storm blew away the 67s 8-4.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Jan. 13/19 – OTT (4) – GUE (8) – Ontario Hockey League

Evan Bouchard had an assist, 2 shots, served 2 for hooking and was +2, as the Knights shut off the radar on the Rangers 5-2.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Jan. 13/19 – LDN (5) – KIT (2) – Ontario Hockey League

Kirill Maksimov had a goal and an assist, 4 shots, got called for slashing and unsportsmanlike conduct and was -1, but the Wolves tore apart the IceDogs 7-3.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Jan. 13/19 – NIAG (3) – SBY (7) – Ontario Hockey League

Drummondville broke down the gates of the Remparts 3-2 in a shootout. Olivier Rodrique wasn't in the lineup.

 

[Senor Catface]

Correct. Bouchard's season last year is a lot more important than this year. If you want to use stats from last year, all those same points stand, as Bouchard led all dmen in scoring last year (by a healthy margin as well). He even led his team in scoring by a ridiculously wide margin as well (30 points). So I'm happy to compare Bouchard's draft year to Benson's 20 year old season if you want, all my points are exactly the same.

Like the wildly incorrect one that said Benson was 29th in rookie scoring?

 

[Senor Catface]

On McDavid as a prospect

this is yet another example of the stupid junior rule.... mcdavid likely shouldn't be in the NHL this year, and his development would be better served in the AHL, but the oilers can't send him to the AHL.... i agree that sending him to junior would not be the right move, as it wouldn't advance his game anymore

On Drai as a prospect

am i the only one pretty concerned that drai isn't doing a LOT better in the WHL since going back? he's actually averaging *less* PPG than he did last year with prince albert.... he's not exactly lighting the world on fire... if he keeps this up, i'll be thinking about him more as a 3rd line C than a 2nd line C

Really seems like someone we should debate prospects with...

 

[McJadeddog]

Like the wildly incorrect one that said Benson was 29th in rookie scoring?

You might want to try and read that post again. 29th in PPG at the time of the post. If you are going to try calling me out, at least attempt to read and understand my post, lol. So no, it wasn't "wildy incorrect" in any way at all, it was 100% accurate.

 

[McJadeddog]

On McDavid as a prospect

On Drai as a prospect

Really seems like someone we should debate prospects with...

McDavid would have been better served in the AHL, like all 18 year olds. The junior rule is dumb, and its dumb for ALL players, regardless of ability. Was he ready for the NHL? Of course he was, just like a couple 18 year olds are every year. My opinion is that all 18 year olds would be better served playing in the AHL.

Drai I was wrong on, no doubt. I suppose you've never been wrong on a prospect. Considering that you apparently can't even read a post accurately, I'm guessing you've been wrong in a couple other areas as well.