2018-2019 Around the league thread #4

[Foppa Frossa]

Barrie for OTT 2020 1st? Lafreniere would look great next to MacKinnon, but no way he falls to 4OA.

 

[Muffin]

Barrie for OTT 2020 1st? Lafreniere would look great next to MacKinnon, but no way he falls to 4OA.

Do it just to continue #senswatch

 

[Avs44]

I think Roy might actually work well there...the Sens have some young talent. Roy seems to click well with that, he gets buy-in, and he’s certainly entertaining. But I have to imagine Roy would want significant say on the hockey ops side of things. Like a scenario where Dorion is pushed more towards the prospects and development side of things, and Roy gets a big say in roster decisions.

But I think Roy would go nuts when he’s told he can’t spend money.

 

[Balthazar]

I can't imagine Roy and Melnyk working together.

Edit: After reading the article it would actually make sense, he'd be there pretty much only to develop young players, not to win now.

 

[Clayonator]

Hey guys can you give me a rundown on Roy? Coaching style, types of players he likes, systems etc.

 

[CB Joe]

Hey guys can you give me a rundown on Roy? Coaching style, types of players he likes, systems etc.

He likes big and gritty players, especially on defense. For most of his time here he had a man-on-man system with the forwards collapsing down to the slot.

 

[AvsRobin]

Hey guys can you give me a rundown on Roy? Coaching style, types of players he likes, systems etc.

Oh gosh, where to even begin. He played man-to-man in his own zone with us, which was good for about 20 games untill other teams figured it out.

He does weird things like putting the enforcer in front of the net on the PP. But he doesn't follow the norm and occasionally tries new ideas, like pulling the goalie with 10 min left, skipping the morning skates etc.

 

[the_fan]

All I know is that Roy has screwed up so many teams with his crazy pulling goalie with tons of time left in the game

it worked couple of times for Roy and Avs but after that many teams start doing it, and it rarely ever works, mostly you get empty net goal scored on with still time left on the clock and lose games

 

[Foppa2118]

All I know is that Roy has screwed up so many teams with his crazy pulling goalie with tons of time left in the game

it worked couple of times for Roy and Avs but after that many teams start doing it, and it rarely ever works, mostly you get empty net goal scored on with still time left on the clock and lose games

Yeah, but you get that anyway in most cases. You're either going to lose or give up an empty net. I still think pulling the goalie with 2-3 minutes to go can be a good strategy, especially if you're down more than one goal. 3+ minutes is probably too much though, unless you're down by 3 goals or something.

A lot of coaches don't do it the way Roy did though. He mainly did it when there was clear possession in the O zone for 10+ seconds, with the opposition looking a bit worn out. So the chances of them getting the puck and skating it cleanly to the blue line to score goes way down, and the chances of you being able to score goes up.

Coaches still pull goalies during face-offs, or in the middle of a rush. There's a lot more risk involved in pulling the goalie at these times.

 

[Foppa2118]

I can't imagine Roy and Melnyk working together.

Edit: After reading the article it would actually make sense, he'd be there pretty much only to develop young players, not to win now.

Yeah, this seems strange to me too. I don't really buy that description in the article though. Roy believes in developing players, but if he's hired as coach, he's doing it because he wants to win the Cup. There may be some players in history that wanted to win as badly as Roy, but nobody wanted to win more than Roy.

Seems hard to believe that he could get along with Melnyk who likes to meddle and micro manage everything.

 

[VikingAv]

Hey guys can you give me a rundown on Roy? Coaching style, types of players he likes, systems etc.

An important thing for the current Sens roster is that he worked very well with and for young players. Others have touched on that he likes big, gritty players. I certainly hope he's gotten away from the man-on-man D.

A bit surprised he's a candidate for Ottawa, because he, to no ones surprise, wants to win badly. And, no offense, but I have a hard time seeing Ottawa in the playoffs the next couple of seasons. He also probably wants a lot of control over the roster, any indication that would happen? Maybe Roy will have a similar role to the one he had with the Avs, HC and some GM responsibilities, which frees up Dorion to do other things in an already thin FO?

 

[Foppa2118]

Part of me wonders if Roy is interviewing just to get his name back in the mix, and let other GM's know that he doesn't necessarily want a role in player decisions anymore. Once you become a coaching candidate again, even if you don't get the job, it helps your chances for the next opening.

He may just be trying to let GM's who think he'll butt heads on personnel decisions know, that he's willing to play ball this time around and just be a coach.

 

[the_fan]

Yeah, but you get that anyway in most cases. You're either going to lose or give up an empty net. I still think pulling the goalie with 2-3 minutes to go can be a good strategy, especially if you're down more than one goal. 3+ minutes is probably too much though, unless you're down by 3 goals or something.

A lot of coaches don't do it the way Roy did though. He mainly did it when there was clear possession in the O zone for 10+ seconds, with the opposition looking a bit worn out. So the chances of them getting the puck and skating it cleanly to the blue line to score goes way down, and the chances of you being able to score goes up.

Coaches still pull goalies during face-offs, or in the middle of a rush. There's a lot more risk involved in pulling the goalie at these times.

If down by 2 or 3 goals in a due or die game I can understand pulling goalie that early, but Roy pulled the goalie with 4 or 5 or more minutes left down by 1 or 2 pretty much every time. You have a better chance at come back if you stick to traditional waiting until 1 and a half or so down by 1 goal before pulling the goalie

 

[Foppa2118]

If down by 2 or 3 goals in a due or die game I can understand pulling goalie that early, but Roy pulled the goalie with 4 or 5 or more minutes left down by 1 or 2 in pretty much every time. You have a better chance at come back if you stick to traditional waiting until 1 and a half or so down by 1 goal before pulling the goalie

I feel like he settled into doing it around 2-4 minutes to go down by one goal, but it's been a while, so I don't remember exactly. In the end though, I still think it makes sense because you're very unlikely to tie the game when you're down a goal that late anyway.

You just have to pull the goalie at the right time, when you have possession, and the opposition is starting to get tired during an extended shift in their D zone. That's the key to how Roy did it, that other coaches didn't seem to pick up on.

That's also why I think he ended up pulling the goalie really early a lot of the time, because once he saw that opportunity, he didn't want to pass it up, because it might not happen again. That's your best opportunity to tie the game with an extra man, and that's why the team had so much success with it.

 

[Ceremony]

Hey guys can you give me a rundown on Roy? Coaching style, types of players he likes, systems etc.

He's a hero and you don't deserve him.

 

[Clayonator]

By the sounds of things us sens fans should get used to seeing a lot of Zack Smith if Roy is hired.

 

[Avs71]

The best attribute Roy had as a coach was his charisma. He brought back the excitement to a team that hadn’t been exciting in years. He got the absolute most out of pretty much every player on his roster for one season, and had them all believing they could win. As we’ve seen with almost every Avs coach, that only lasts for so long.

Didn’t take long for him and Duchene to butt heads. Rip apart MacKinnon. Burn the bridge with Will Butcher. Try to push Barrie out. Call out the core saying they are not good enough. And eventually quit and leave the team high and dry weeks before the season started.

All in all his tenure in Colorado was quite pathetic. A love for “gritty” veterans. Valuing size over skill. Getting outshot every single night, relying on outstanding goaltending to win any games. Ripping the best players to the media. And in classic fashion, quitting on the team thinking he was too good for what was happening.

I hope Ottawa doesn’t hire him. They deserve better.

 

[RockLobster]

The best attribute Roy had as a coach was his charisma. He brought back the excitement to a team that hadn’t been exciting in years. He got the absolute most out of pretty much every player on his roster for one season, and had them all believing they could win. As we’ve seen with almost every Avs coach, that only lasts for so long.

Didn’t take long for him and Duchene to butt heads. Rip apart MacKinnon. Burn the bridge with Will Butcher. Try to push Barrie out. Call out the core saying they are not good enough. And eventually quit and leave the team high and dry weeks before the season started.

All in all his tenure in Colorado was quite pathetic. A love for “gritty” veterans. Valuing size over skill. Getting outshot every single night, relying on outstanding goaltending to win any games. Ripping the best players to the media. And in classic fashion, quitting on the team thinking he was too good for what was happening.

I hope Ottawa doesn’t hire him. They deserve better.

“Try to push Barrie out” is not accurate. He ended up helping Barrie realize his potential & skillset.

I actually disagree with most of this assessment. Roy did not have final say on the roster construction (only input). That was Joe. And while Patty has his faults, I tend to think they’re overblown a bit.

I don’t think his exit was the greatest, but I can’t fault anyone for coming to the realization that their heart wasn’t in it anymore and thus not wanting to continue on with something. I mean I wish he could have gotten to that realization sooner, but it is what it is. I think we all know that Roy was never going to be fired, he was always going to resign his position if the Avs wanted to go a different direction.

The one thing I hope Roy has learned is to not change gameplan too much. Towards the end that’s what he was doing, not giving it a chance to work. The minute they got down he’d change the plan and I think that contributed to things getting even worse.

 

[Mules]

I think Roy has something to do with developing our current leadership though. He just wasn’t patient enough to see them maturing.

 

[hooverdam]

The biggest thing for me is that Roy coached a system that does not lead to longterm success over time. The Avs were unconscionably bad in CA during Roy's time here and improved somewhat (they're still getting there) when he left. Teams like that can go on a run based on a hot goalie but the PDO gods always come around again to bite them.

The Senators already play like this somewhat despite icing good possession players like Tkachuk and White. They played like this even when Karlsson was still on the team. They do not have the goaltending to even pretend a system like that is acceptable, never mind sustainable. The differences between Roy and Boucher aren't all that vast in terms of system; Roy just coached high event hockey both ways instead of one way, and his man-to-man junior hockey system made things more chaotic.

 

[Avs71]

“Try to push Barrie out” is not accurate. He ended up helping Barrie realize his potential & skillset.

I actually disagree with most of this assessment. Roy did not have final say on the roster construction (only input). That was Joe. And while Patty has his faults, I tend to think they’re overblown a bit.

 

[RockLobster]

Cool, and I already read that.

Bissonette is inaccurate in what drove Patrick away (passing on certain players in the draft/having to constantly pound the table on who they should draft, Joe not being aggressive in fixing the holes on the team & settling for quarter-assed solutions like Stuart is what ultimately led to that). And doesn’t give him credit for unleashing Barrie in the first place. Barrie wasn’t playing to his potential when Patty came in. There’s no two ways about it—Roy helped Barrie become what he is by getting him to embrace his skills. Now I guess that doesn’t mean that arbitration didn’t go as Bissonette described, but it seems strange that no one else has reported it that way, yeah? Like we’ve seen other more reputable reporters like McKenzie & LeBrun comment on arbitration between a club and a player, but I don’t recall them commenting on the Barrie one. Doesn’t mean it’s not accurate, just that I’m not personally putting a lot of stock into what BizNasty is saying there.

Again, did he have issues? Yeah, but I still think they’re blown out of proportion. There were lots of things that Roy wanted changed that a number of posters have advocated for (better development pipeline, better coaching staff, etc).

I personally think his primary issue(s) came when he overcorrected (to the extreme) to Yeo giving the NHL a blueprint to how to beat them after their playoff series. He started making way too many changes at the drop of a hat when things weren’t going well.

And at the end of the day, the NHL is a better place with Patrick Roy in it. Multiple head coaches have been given more than one kick at the can. If he were to get on anywhere, I’d hope that he learned from some of the mistakes he made and has grown as coach. Because his name will only get him so far, if he hasn’t then he won’t be long for the NHL.



TL;DR

I’m just not sure Bissonette is either telling or knows the full story (in my opinion).

 

[the_fan]

Roy was a terrible coach in the NHL. His system which may have worked in junior hockey, was total crap in the NHL, and he really screwed up MacKinnon's development by constantly moving him around from line to line and center to wing, otherwise MacK may have developed to what he is now sooner

 

[Avs_19]

The best thing Roy did as Avs HC was quit on the team when he did, which allowed them to hire a good HC and eventually move in the right direction. The Avs wouldn't have fired him so as terrible as the timing was, it actually ended up being a good thing in the long run. I don't really care about the speculated/rumoured scenarios on the personnel side because I don't believe it would've mattered too much if he was still the coach. Great player and one of my all-time favourites but also a very lousy coach.

However, he's entertaining and I like listening to him so I'd like to see him get another chance. Hopefully he has learned from his first stint and has taken the years away from the NHL to change and get better.

 

[Foppa2118]

Roy was a terrible coach in the NHL. His system which may have worked in junior hockey, was total crap in the NHL, and he really screwed up MacKinnon's development by constantly moving him around from line to line and center to wing, otherwise MacK may have developed to what he is now sooner

There's really no way to know that, and it's easy to see he's a center now. Back then there was no consensus, and for a long time, he had played his best hockey at the time on Stastny's wing.

Moving back and forth didn't stop MacKinnon from being the player he is now. Other high level players have moved back and forth as well like Pavelski, Seguin, Stamkos, Giroux, etc.

It's just part of the path of a player these days. There's less emphasis on which wing you play, or whether you play center or wing, because systems are designed to help defensively no matter what position you play.