Prospect Info: 2018-19 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Junior A, Europe)

[RockLobster]

There's also the long-standing desire for a big, physical stay-at-home shutdown guy on the blueline after so many have come, gone, and failed over the years. I'll admit I desperately want the guy to succeed.

I think we all want the guy to succeed, and while I can't speak for Henchy I've never taken any of his player evaluations as him wanting that player to not pan out--just more of an honest opinion of how he sees the player.

I desperately want Zadorov to succeed and still believe he will, however I will admit to believing that he will settle into being a nice Top-4 rather than a Top-Pairing...but there's nothing wrong with that, we still need players like that.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think we all want the guy to succeed, and while I can't speak for Henchy I've never taken any of his player evaluations as him wanting that player to not pan out--just more of an honest opinion of how he sees the player.

I desperately want Zadorov to succeed and still believe he will, however I will admit to believing that he will settle into being a nice Top-4 rather than a Top-Pairing...but there's nothing wrong with that, we still need players like that.

Agreed on all points. If he does fill out that role and both Makar and Timmins fill their respective roles, the Avs will be in amazing shape going forward.

 

[henchman21]

I just call players how I see them... for better or for worse. Totally fine if people don't agree, but I have my reasonings and thoughts behind how I evaluate. In players that I am 'down' on... I still project them to be very solid players consistently. I flat out hope those players prove me 100% wrong. I'd much rather have the egg on my face and have to reevaluate how I judge players than have the Avs have more holes on the team.

One thing I do not do is change my evaluations of prospects just because they became Avs' property and let my fandom or personal connections cloud my judgement.

 

[Tweaky]

Lafreniere is currently receiving McDavid-level of hype. Crazy to think he's still 2 drafts away from the NHL.

Of course. TSN, etc. have to skip a year because next year's "generational" player is American, and this year's was Swedish. They have to plug a Canadian kid every once in a while to appease the viewer base. And to be fair, he does look worthy of the attention.

 

[S E P H]

Lafreniere is currently receiving McDavid-level of hype. Crazy to think he's still 2 drafts away from the NHL.

He's a late birthday though, could be for 2019 as much as the 2020 draft. He's simply amazing, but I think being a winger might potentially hurt his stock in the long run, especially when more kids start growing and match to his level (if they're able to). 2020 is looking effin deep though which will add more fuel to fire about his position with the likes of Byfield (C), Holtz (RW) who could easily be his main challenge to first overall, Raymond (W), and some of the other underappreciated players like Simontaival, Rochette (C), Rossi (C), Peterson (C), and Stranges (C). This is me not even mentioning defenders like Barron, Guhle, and Delemont even though a lot will change.

 

[Balthazar]

I think being a winger might potentially hurt his stock in the long run.

The ceiling for a "generational" winger is kind of in a weird place. Sure there's Ovechkin but after that, what could it be? An even better Taylor Hall? Apparently he's very good at both ends of the rink, I wonder if they tried to make his transition to center. He's only 16, it's not too late.

 

[henchman21]

It is very, very hard to build around a wing and Lafreniere hasn't played center consistently in a long while. Even in AAA he as a wing. I expect him to go #1 or near it, but the Caps struggles building a Cup winner around Ovi prove how difficult it is to build around a winger. All that said... it is too early for 2019 placement, let alone 2020. One step at a time.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I just call players how I see them... for better or for worse. Totally fine if people don't agree, but I have my reasonings and thoughts behind how I evaluate. In players that I am 'down' on... I still project them to be very solid players consistently. I flat out hope those players prove me 100% wrong. I'd much rather have the egg on my face and have to reevaluate how I judge players than have the Avs have more holes on the team.

One thing I do not do is change my evaluations of prospects just because they became Avs' property and let my fandom or personal connections cloud my judgement.

I do lol. Do a search of my posts on Upshall, Redmond, Gelinas Mario Kempe and Hellebuyck and you’ll see exactly what I mean

 

[henchman21]

I do lol. Do a search of my posts on Upshall, Redmond, Gelinas Mario Kempe and Hellebuyck and you’ll see exactly what I mean

Blind squirrel found his nut!

A funny thing to me is that I get portrayed as a bias against a certain prospect consistently... and he's one I've met a number a times and know on a first name basis.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Blind squirrel found his nut!

A funny thing to me is that I get portrayed as a bias against a certain prospect consistently... and he's one I've met a number a times and know on a first name basis.

Hmmmm I wonder who that could be...

 

[Tweaky]

I have no clue.

 

[S E P H]

The ceiling for a "generational" winger is kind of in a weird place. Sure there's Ovechkin but after that, what could it be? An even better Taylor Hall? Apparently he's very good at both ends of the rink, I wonder if they tried to make his transition to center. He's only 16, it's not too late.

Well, I will say that if there is a winger who will go first overall it has to be in 2020 where you have Alexis and Holtz who've started out separated from the pack. However, as I mentioned in my previous post there are a ton of centres who can challenge those two wingers at 1st overall and I suggest the battle will get closer when we see how they do in the CHL such of the likes as Byfield, Rossi, and Stranges. The more wildcards will be Rochette who looks like he's stating in Suisse's Elite Junior A this year and Dylan Peterson who's going to play his first year at USNTDP.

All these players definitely have the potential to challenge the two wingers, but don't think of it as the wingers falling down to the rest of the pack. It is due to how deep this draft is looking and players playing up to them more than anything. I am fine with all making predictions, but as Hench said a bit too far away.

 

[Foppa2118]

Blind squirrel found his nut!

A funny thing to me is that I get portrayed as a bias against a certain prospect consistently... and he's one I've met a number a times and know on a first name basis.

The fact that you met someone, doesn't disprove in any way that you have a bias against them. I'm willing to bet you don't talk to their face, the way you talk about them here.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[Pokecheque]

The ceiling for a "generational" winger is kind of in a weird place. Sure there's Ovechkin but after that, what could it be? An even better Taylor Hall? Apparently he's very good at both ends of the rink, I wonder if they tried to make his transition to center. He's only 16, it's not too late.

Well, Patrick Kane made it so that the Hawks never really ever needed to go out there and get a real 2nd line center all these years. He's essentially a center who just lines up at RW, he even played center for a bit there.

It is very, very hard to build around a wing and Lafreniere hasn't played center consistently in a long while. Even in AAA he as a wing. I expect him to go #1 or near it, but the Caps struggles building a Cup winner around Ovi prove how difficult it is to build around a winger. All that said... it is too early for 2019 placement, let alone 2020. One step at a time.

I'm going to humbly disagree with this. The only thing that proves to me is that general managers, even some of the best ones, are very capable of gross incompetence. The Caps abruptly changed directions after a very stacked Washington team got humbled by Jaroslav Halak and the Habs in what ended up being a complete fluke run and set themselves back years. Calgary squandered nearly all of Jarome Iginla's career...in fact I'm pretty sure Calgary's had only ONE boss who was ever worth a shit. Hell, I'd even go back farther and say that it was gross incompetence that prevented the Blues way back when Hull & Oates were doin' their thing from going all the way.

If this Lafreniere kid ends up being as advertised, it'll take some Chiarelli-level incompetence (of which I believe there is a lot of in the NHL because for some reason all these guys fail upwards) then there should be no reason you can't build a winner around that kid. I'm curious to see what Carolina does with Svechnikov since they obviously failed with Skinner.

The only instance where maybe I'll agree is in St. Louis. Tarasenko is inarguably a very good player...but there's something about him or his game that makes me think that ultimately, he's not going to bring them to the promised land. But again, STL has also made some bad moves during his career thus far.

 

[henchman21]

I'm going to humbly disagree with this. The only thing that proves to me is that general managers, even some of the best ones, are very capable of gross incompetence. The Caps abruptly changed directions after a very stacked Washington team got humbled by Jaroslav Halak and the Habs in what ended up being a complete fluke run and set themselves back years. Calgary squandered nearly all of Jarome Iginla's career...in fact I'm pretty sure Calgary's had only ONE boss who was ever worth a ****. Hell, I'd even go back farther and say that it was gross incompetence that prevented the Blues way back when Hull & Oates were doin' their thing from going all the way.

If this Lafreniere kid ends up being as advertised, it'll take some Chiarelli-level incompetence (of which I believe there is a lot of in the NHL because for some reason all these guys fail upwards) then there should be no reason you can't build a winner around that kid. I'm curious to see what Carolina does with Svechnikov since they obviously failed with Skinner.

The only instance where maybe I'll agree is in St. Louis. Tarasenko is inarguably a very good player...but there's something about him or his game that makes me think that ultimately, he's not going to bring them to the promised land. But again, STL has also made some bad moves during his career thus far.

You say gross incompetence, but outside of the Caps... what other Cup winning team has mainly built themselves around a winger? Pens have 2 great centers, Hawks have Towes, Kings have Kopi, Avs had Sakic and Forsberg... traditionally, you need great centers to win a Cup and you need to build your teams around them. A build around a winger simply hasn't worked outside of the Caps... and I'd argue they have 2 #1 level (or near it) centers. Centers are just too important in hockey to not build around them.

 

[S E P H]

Avs hired a new scout...

Elite Prospects - Henrik Gradin Team Staff Profile

Not sure if he's an addition or if he's replacing someone?

 

[Foppa2118]

Avs hired a new scout...

Elite Prospects - Henrik Gradin Team Staff Profile

Not sure if he's an addition or if he's replacing someone?

It looks like Anders Carlsson has officially left the team. He was really working on a part time basis for a while. Anton Edlund isn't listed on the Avs site anymore either. Both were based in Sweden and worked that region as well as Eastern Europe a bit.

It seems as though they've been replaced by Gradin and Alexei Gusarov, who we heard recently was working as a scout for the Avs.

Coaching and Staff

There's a Forsberg connection with Gradin too. He was MoDo's assistant/head coach for six years, and the entire time Foppa was assistant GM.

 

[Pokecheque]

You say gross incompetence, but outside of the Caps... what other Cup winning team has mainly built themselves around a winger? Pens have 2 great centers, Hawks have Towes, Kings have Kopi, Avs had Sakic and Forsberg... traditionally, you need great centers to win a Cup and you need to build your teams around them. A build around a winger simply hasn't worked outside of the Caps... and I'd argue they have 2 #1 level (or near it) centers. Centers are just too important in hockey to not build around them.

Well, funny you bring up the Hawks because I think Kane has had way more to do with their success than Toews, and this is coming from someone who thinks Patrick Kane is a human shitstain. Now, I also just said that Kane was pretty much a center anyway so I understand this isn't necessarily a good argument, but I think it still counts to a degree.

I certainly would not argue with the notion that you need a strong center corps to contend, that's an almost-must, but I don't think they always have to be your best players.

I think you can build a winner around a guy like Ovechkin, Boeser, maybe even Svechnikov, but the key word is BUILD. Please name me the 2nd line of any of those Calgary teams that Iginla and Kipprusoff dragged kicking and screaming into the postseason pretty much on their own. Look at how many awful, terrible moves the Caps made en route to their eventual Stanley Cup...they would've had one a lot sooner had they not panicked and thought the team needed to get "grittier" while also hiring a couple horrible coaches along the way. That has nothing to do with the fact that both those teams were built around a winger--that's just bad management. Bad drafting, bad trades, bad signings, and bad coaching hires. I think we can both agree that if Vancouver fails to build a winner it won't be because of Brock Boeser.

So yeah, you can't get away with even a mediocre center corps, but I don't think that having an elite winger should pose as some kind of monumental task.

 

[henchman21]

Having an elite winger is not a bad thing at all, but they just shouldn’t be the focal point of the build... just a part of it. And as much as Toews got overrated, he has gotten incredibly underrated now. At his peak, he was a top 10 center in the game. The Hawks don’t win Cups without Toews as much as they don’t win without Kane. To me grab an elite winger after you have your top center and defensemen. Until then focus on the nessesary parts of the build. Otherwise you spin tires until find the right mix and that might be too late by the time it happens.

As an illustration of what I mean... Laine is the right way to add an elite winger IMO.

 

[McMetal]

I think it's somewhat overly simplistic to say that a team is built around one player or one position. The Hawks dynasty wasn't built around Kane or Toews, it was Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith, Hjalmarsson, and Seabrook. None of them were expendable on that team, and they simply had a rotating cast of guys like Saad, Ladd, Byfuglien, Anisimov, Oduya, and Shaw backing the core up, replaced when needed. Washington was Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Oshie, Carlson, and Holtby, you can't take any of those players out of the mix and still see that team winning a cup.

You get a core group that you believe in together and then try to go for it while they're in their primes by giving them the supporting cast they need. A mix of centers, wingers, D, maybe a goalie if you're lucky enough to have a Fleury or Holtby around. You need some of each, you can't just say "Edmonton needs to build around McDavid" when there is obviously so much more that team needs to compete. They don't even have much of a core outside of McDavid and Drai, much less any kind of supporting cast for the core players they don't have.

 

[S E P H]

It looks like Anders Carlsson has officially left the team. He was really working on a part time basis for a while. Anton Edlund isn't listed on the Avs site anymore either. Both were based in Sweden and worked that region as well as Eastern Europe a bit.

It seems as though they've been replaced by Gradin and Alexei Gusarov, who we heard recently was working as a scout for the Avs.

Coaching and Staff

There's a Forsberg connection with Gradin too. He was MoDo's assistant/head coach for six years, and the entire time Foppa was assistant GM.

Good find. I really hope we get another Swedish scout (or even two), seems sort of weird that Avs would only have one scout in a hockey superpower country (with Lehto on the side).

 

[Foppa2118]

Good find. I really hope we get another Swedish scout (or even two), seems sort of weird that Avs would only have one scout in a hockey superpower country (with Lehto on the side).

Well Gusarov I think is over there as well. My guess is he'll handle more of Eastern Europe. but these guys go back and forth. Even the NA scouts take trips over there just to get some perspective, and some new eyes on the prospects they're scouting.

Lehto and Gradin will probably handle the heavy lifting in the Sweden/Finland region though I would imagine. I agree they could use more but traditionally the Avs haven't spent much money on scouts.

 

[klozge]

I’m excited to see Zadorov 100% healthy, in shape and ready to go for the start of the season for the first time as an Av.

We have a love fest for him here no doubt. But I don’t have any plans on changing it. He’s too loveable. Plus his impact is large. His presence alone changes the way the other team plays the game.

This is so true. I still don't think the Avs would have made the playoffs if Zadorov hadn't played through his injury.

 

[Avs_19]

I was hoping the BU speculation was accurate because TSN usually shows some of their games. Oh well.