Prospect Info: 2018-19 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Junior A, Europe)

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henchman21

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While I don’t agree with Z being at 11 there (I’d have him much higher), but he isn’t 100% out to lunch either there. Z is widely loved here to the point where his flaws are overlooked. Pronman puts more stock in certain things and isn’t at all a homer for him.
 
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Perratrooper

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I haven’t read the article, but is it stating our prospects are 21st or our U23 is 21st? I disagree with both statements, but one significantly more than the other. Especially if Zadorov is ranked 11..
 

Pokecheque

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While I don’t agree with Z being at 11 there (I’d have him much higher), but he isn’t 100% out to lunch either there. Z is widely loved here to the point where his flaws are overlooked. Pronman puts more stock in certain things and isn’t at all a homer for him.

Agreed. I love Z but he's not a high-end skill guy, and hasn't yet proven to be the go-to guy on defense. If he shows more consistency then yeah, I'm all for it but there's a reason the Avs wanted to bridge him.
 

Vaslof

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But it’s not just prospects. It’s u-23. Nathan Mackinnon and Mikko Rantanen are the first two names on his list.

If we only had MacKinnon and no-one else we should probably still be ranked higher. Are there that many teams with an u-23 elite 1C?
 

CobraAcesS

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Agreed. I love Z but he's not a high-end skill guy, and hasn't yet proven to be the go-to guy on defense. If he shows more consistency then yeah, I'm all for it but there's a reason the Avs wanted to bridge him.

What the hell has Compher, Jost, etc done that Z hasn't? f***ing kidding me? That list is completely moronic.
 
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Foppa2118

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While I don’t agree with Z being at 11 there (I’d have him much higher), but he isn’t 100% out to lunch either there. Z is widely loved here to the point where his flaws are overlooked. Pronman puts more stock in certain things and isn’t at all a homer for him.

This is simply false on all levels. Zadorov isn't widely loved here. His flaws aren't at all overlooked. And the reason Pronman doesn't like him isn't because "he's not a homer."

I don't know why you feel the need to mischaracterize players and how others view them so often. Just because you don't like a player, and others do, doesn't mean they are biased and you aren't.
 

Chileiceman

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How the heck does Pronman find time to watch every hockey player in the world? He doesn't. I'd put little stock in his assessment of NHL'ers. He's much more fixed on watching NCAA, CHL and AHL.
 

Foppa2118

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Oh Zads absolutely is loved around here, at times to the point of ridiculousness. If I had a nickel for every time someone trotted out the bad (and false) take that Jared Bednar keeps him on a short leash or just arbitrarily throws him in the doghouse, I'd have...a lot of nickels.

That hasn't really even been a topic since the beginning of last season when he was benched for conditioning.

People like Z because he's an entertaining player to watch. Not because they're blind to his flaws. Almost everyone agrees on what his flaws are. He's not a great puck mover, he's not gonna put up 40-50 points, and he still battles with consistency and maintaining focus during games.

What is being ignored is the fact that he's still only 23, and has improved on all his flaws multiple seasons in a row now.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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This is simply false on all levels. Zadorov isn't widely loved here. His flaws aren't at all overlooked. And the reason Pronman doesn't like him isn't because "he's not a homer."

I don't know why you feel the need to mischaracterize players and how others view them so often. Just because you don't like a player, and others do, doesn't mean they are biased and you aren't.


Yeah.... That's just not accurate at all. Zadorov is absolutely loved by a number of posters on these boards to the point where his flaws are overlooked and his expectations are unattainable.
 

Foppa2118

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Yeah.... That's just not accurate at all. Zadorov is absolutely loved by a number of posters on these boards to the point where his flaws are overlooked and his expectations are unattainable.

Sorry but you're describing the same alternate reality. There's only a few people that think he's a great puck mover, or a highly productive point producer, or don't agree he's still inconsistent.

Feel free to point me towards the large group of posters that you're referring to. I imagine most of them simply believe he's still developing at 23, and believe he has room to grow. Not that they're ignoring his flaws.
 

AllAboutAvs

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I'm with Waingro wrt Z. He is loved around here for his physical game. When it comes to the rest of his game, except for a very few posters, I see a fan base that is recognizing his flaws but sees him improving steadily year after year.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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There's without a doubt a number of people who thought Z was waaaaay better last year then he actually was. He was playing at the level of a bottom pairing Dman or worse for probably half the season, and it wasn't until the EJ injury IMO that he really started playing to a higher level.


We'll see what he does next year and I have hopes that his strong end to the season is a sign that he's going to take that next step next year and establish himself as a legit #3/4D, but it's entirely possible that doesn't happen.
 

Cousin Eddie

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I’m excited to see Zadorov 100% healthy, in shape and ready to go for the start of the season for the first time as an Av.

We have a love fest for him here no doubt. But I don’t have any plans on changing it. He’s too loveable. Plus his impact is large. His presence alone changes the way the other team plays the game.
 

Tweaky

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It is not that some folks love him so much they do not see his flaws. It is that some folks...rather vocal ones if enough of us have noticed the trend...see those flaws as totally subservient of the positives of Z smash, peacock on the rush, and that booming shot. They do not fail to see the mistakes and challenges, they just minimize the effect they have on their overall evaluation of him as a player. But Pronman does seem to give some of the kids a bit more weight based on potential than I would...Z's development and experience put him above Compher, Kamenev, and maybe even Kaut (such a wildcard for me) for sure. And to have a proven top4 D (however you feel about Z, he has made a case to be a #4 at least) listed below the guy just ranked in the "has a shot" category is asinine.

The reverse can be true as well, for some players. people focus on one or more aspects of a player's game, and over-emphasize they impact those negatives have on their evaluation. Take Nemeth and the icings thing. Despite the numbers showing he is on ice for fewer icings than many of our other Dmen, folks will constantly harp on that as a fault, and overlook the fact that he had the best icing +/- of all our D (EJ was 2nd, Barrie last...few guys missing from list, not enough games maybe?).


Bah got myself worked up about it, and went to post a comment at Pronman and forgot about this post. Gonna just submit it without proofing it...flame me as needed.
 

Foppa2118

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Zadorov is a big horse defenseman. A lot of these big stud D men types that aren’t naturally highly talented, or don't have high end offensive instincts, take longer to fully develop their game in the NHL. EJ and Chara were the same way. Not that he's gonna have their offensive game, but he’ll have a similar development time.

All three were rushed into the NHL because of their size, but took longer than their peers to fully develop. Both EJ and Chara were 25 before they really figured it out. For EJ it was the 2013-14 season under Roy and Tourigny, and for Chara it was his first full season in Ottawa.

Before that they struggled with the mental side of the game and inconsistency in the same fashion. EJ specifically talked about how much he worked on being a positive contributor every single shift during 2013-14, not just every few games. I think Foote helped him realize the importance of thinking this way, though I might be remembering that wrong.

Adam Larsson is another example of a big defenseman that took a little longer to develop. He was very inconsistent during his tenure in New Jersey. He's about to turn 26 in November and he's just now coming into his own. This is different than big defenseman that have really good offensive instincts to match their high end skills like Seth Jones or Viktor Hedman, who were able to contribute at a higher level, earlier in their career.

Zadorov has two more seasons of development before he’s in the same position at the same age when EJ and Chara finally put it all together. Trying to define him as a defenseman based on what he’s done in the NHL so far, especially when he was rushed into the NHL at 19-21, is a mistake.
 

Avs_19

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That said, I look at players like MacKenzie Entwistle, Jaret Anderson-Dolan, Ty Dellandrea and Shane Bowers – they all showed they possess the ability to be relentless in terms of putting pressure on opponents to attack. Having that type of lineup and those types of players can really help Canada defend gold.

It'd be great to see Bowers there, even if it's in a limited role.
 

Pokecheque

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Okay, Pronman has the Leafs ranked at 19, which surprises me since I thought their system was pretty deep at this point, but I suppose they didn't effectively "rebuild" until 2015, so they too might have some organizational depth issues.

But the real head-scratcher is Minnesota at 18. Even he admits he's basing a lot of their prospect pool strength on one player (Kaprizov) who may never leave the KHL. Beyond that it's guys like Kunin and Greenway, who are fine players in their own right but nothing to write home about.
 

RockLobster

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This is simply false on all levels. Zadorov isn't widely loved here. His flaws aren't at all overlooked. And the reason Pronman doesn't like him isn't because "he's not a homer."

I don't know why you feel the need to mischaracterize players and how others view them so often. Just because you don't like a player, and others do, doesn't mean they are biased and you aren't.

I don't think he's wrong. Zadorov gets a lot of his flaws generally overlooked, and I suspect it's because of a desire for us to be perceived as the "winners" of the ROR trade where in reality the Avs still gave up the better/more proven player in the trade (and that still holds true today, though Zadorov has made great leaps to close that gap).
 
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