Speculation: 2017 - 2018 Roster Discussion Part 3

[Grimes]

Agreed that it is a risk moving a kid. Maybe it is even something like Crouse + the 2nd for an upgrade at wing.

Lindholm would be great but why would the Canes move him? Actually they were a perplexing team, I really dont know what their needs are anymore. Their defense went from looking like the next Calgary to turning into a tirefire. Goaltending is obviously an issue. Their center depth could be better but Aho is helping there.

 

[Jakey53]

I think we need to be thinking more of secondary pieces on the free agent market rather than key free agents at this time until we see what we actually have in house.

You bet. We are still rebuilding and we are not sure if the kids will keep on progressing or not. Rebuilding takes patience and is painful as we have experienced, but now is not the time to start signing these UFA's who are getting old and wants big $$$.

 

[Jakey53]

I’d rather look for buy low opportunities via trade. There are a few teams changing directions. Futures are never more valuable than on draft day. I’m not particularly attached to the guys in Tucson or that Minnesota pick.

What Jamieh and you said both work for me. Whichever way we loose the less assets or assets we don't care about.

 

[RABBIT]

I don't want to entertain the idea of trading Domi or Perlini. Really don't like the idea of trading Fischer either, but if it was part of a deal that we couldn't turn down, I would eventually get over it. Kind of like I did with we traded DeAngelo.

 

[IPreferPi]

Agreed that it is a risk moving a kid. Maybe it is even something like Crouse + the 2nd for an upgrade at wing.

Lindholm would be great but why would the Canes move him? Actually they were a perplexing team, I really dont know what their needs are anymore. Their defense went from looking like the next Calgary to turning into a tirefire. Goaltending is obviously an issue. Their center depth could be better but Aho is helping there.

I'm still not at all attached to Crouse, so I'm all for using him as trade bait for an upgrade.

As for Lindholm, I agree that he's probably not available, but there's going to be a new GM in Carolina who might want to shake things up. And if Necas arrives next year, Lindholm may be on the block.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't want to entertain the idea of trading Domi or Perlini. Really don't like the idea of trading Fischer either, but if it was part of a deal that we couldn't turn down, I would eventually get over it. Kind of like I did with we traded DeAngelo.

DeAngelo is not in the same arena as the ones you mentioned. Trading these kids now is foolish, and could come back and bit us big time. The only way I would trade any of the core is if a similar aged player is coming back. Coming out of the rebuild in a year or two we want to be able to be in the playoffs for a number of years so trading for older players MIGHT help short term, it kills us long term.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm still not at all attached to Crouse, so I'm all for using him as trade bait for an upgrade.

As for Lindholm, I agree that he's probably not available, but there's going to be a new GM in Carolina who might want to shake things up. And if Necas arrives next year, Lindholm may be on the block.

Crouse doesn't have much value so I would give him the chance to prove himself at next years training camp.

 

[Tad Mikowski]

Crouse doesn't have much value so I would give him the chance to prove himself at next years training camp.

Agreed, id like to see him stay. I'm still really hopeful he will reach his potential. That being said If we needed to throw him in to a deal to get something done, it wouldn't break my heart.

 

[RABBIT]

DeAngelo is not in the same arena as the ones you mentioned. Trading these kids now is foolish, and could come back and bit us big time. The only way I would trade any of the core is if a similar aged player is coming back. Coming out of the rebuild in a year or two we want to be able to be in the playoffs for a number of years so trading for older players MIGHT help short term, it kills us long term.

if it weren't for DeAngelo's disciplinary issues, he very much would be in the same category as Fischer IMO

 

[Jakey53]

Agreed, id like to see him stay. I'm still really hopeful he will reach his potential. That being said If we needed to throw him in to a deal to get something done, it wouldn't break my heart.

He doesn't have much value at the moment so I wait until after training camp. I would rather have him running around and hitting people than Rinaldo.

 

[Jakey53]

if it weren't for DeAngelo's disciplinary issues, he very much would be in the same category as Fischer IMO

A big IF. But I did like AD.

 

[rt]

This is where I'm at too. Who needs to clear some cap space to sign JVR or Tavares? I do think one of our kids may have to go the other way. One of Domi, Fischer, Crouse or Perlini for a straight up upgrade that is in their mid to lateish 20's. How far off is something around Fischer for Brock Nelson? Or does Fischer's upside outweigh the worth of losing him?

Not a Nelson fan. Soft, lazy, one dimensional opportunistic scorer. Maybe the only 20g guy in the league that I view as a net negative player. Haha. A bit like Peter Mueller back in the day.

 

[RABBIT]

A big IF. But I did like AD.

Both the Tony D's (Duke & Tony) may just have a hard time adjusting to how other people want them to play, versus the play that they were drafted for.

 

[RABBIT]

Not a Nelson fan. Soft, lazy, one dimensional opportunistic scorer. Maybe the only 20g guy in the league that I view as a net negative player. Haha. A bit like Peter Mueller back in the day.

 

[Plub]

I feel like Crouse and Fish are guys you have to have in your 9-12 to be successful.

 

[Mosby]

I like Fischer a lot more than Brock Nelson - Fischer may easily become the 20-20-40 guy Nelson is as soon as next season.

That said, I'm with rt - try to find some potential buy low opportunities with mid 20s RFAs. One guy I'd love to target is Elias Lindholm.

Not sure Lindholm is movable. Carolina's C depth is similar to our own. But hey, if they appoint Don Waddell as GM, I'm all for making deals with the Canes.

 

[Heldig]

Assuming Raanta is signed goalie and D is set. The team needs to add scoring i a big way. I do agree it is ill advised to go after the big name UFA's (Neal, JVR) or trade for a name like Paccioretty...they will command big $ and long term deal. The team is not in a financial position to do that.

Ideally Chayka would identify a talented but maybe under utilized forward that can be brought in and contribute ala the several guys Vegas drafted...a W. Karlsson type home run or a solid player like Haula that many here identified as a guy we would have liked.

There may be some opportunities to sign UFA's playing in Europe. Maybe a Finn to keep Raanta company?

VILLE LESKINEN Ville Leskinen
JUUSO IKONEN Juuso Ikonen
SAKU MÄENALANEN Saku Mäenalanen

 

[IPreferPi]

Not sure Lindholm is movable. Carolina's C depth is similar to our own. But hey, if they appoint Don Waddell as GM, I'm all for making deals with the Canes.

The Canes currently have Staal, Rask, Aho, Lindholm, and Ryan, with Necas and Roy close to making the jump, and quite possibly whomever they draft this year.

Granted, I think they'll ship out Rask first if anything (and I'm not too interested in him), but I think it's still worthy exploring esp. given how Lindholm seems to have hit a wall developing in Carolina.

 

[_Del_]

Would not trade Fischer for Nelson. I like the odds of Fischer improving a bit, and he's basically been a 15-20-35 player for us this year, so even if he doesn't improve, he's a useful player with his size and speed. He needs to bring the fire more often.

I like Nelson more than rt, though. He's got size and will use it. Plays C or wing. He's good for 20 goals a year with about 15 minutes of ice time. Yes, he takes games off, but we have the same problem with Fischer and Perlini, etc , and still find them valuable.
We need to keep taking baby steps. Guys who bring the sticky every game and also pot 20+ goals a year simply aren't made available very often, though obviously we should add one if he is. Our decisions right now should be based on if the guy brings an upgrade (even short term) to what we have now, weighted against cost to acquire and how flexible it leaves us if another add or a kid can make him redundant in the future.

 

[Grimes]

Hockey gods please bless us with Svechnikov and we dont have to worry about this.

 

[IPreferPi]

I like Nelson more than rt, though. He's got size and will use it. Plays C or wing. He's good for 20 goals a year with about 15 minutes of ice time. Yes, he takes games off, but we have the same problem with Fischer and Perlini, etc , and still find them valuable.

The big difference of course is that Nelson has consistently taken games off all throughout his career while Fischer is a 20 year old rookie still adjusting to the rigors of an 82 game season. Nelson can score, but Fischer has similar upside while also playing a more complete game.

 

[_Del_]

Granted, I think they'll ship out Rask first if anything (and I'm not too interested in him), but I think it's still worthy exploring esp. given how Lindholm seems to have hit a wall developing in Carolina.

I look at Rask similarly to how I look at Nelson. He'd be an upgrade. But Rask is more a playmaker than shooter. He's also better defensively, but they both lack consistent sticky. Still, a playmaker with size and great on the dot. Both play C/W so it's easier to make room for and make insurance for Strome and injuries.

 

[_Del_]

The big difference of course is that Nelson has consistently taken games off all throughout his career while Fischer is a 20 year old rookie still adjusting to the rigors of an 82 game season. Nelson can score, but Fischer has similar upside while also playing a more complete game.

I don't known that Fischer's game is really more complete at this point, but I said in that post I wouldn't trade Fischer for Nelson if it makes you feel better.

 

[IPreferPi]

I look at Rask similarly to how I look at Nelson. He'd be an upgrade. But Rask is more a playmaker than shooter. He's also better defensively, but they both lack consistent sticky. Still, a playmaker with size and great on the dot. Both play C/W so it's easier to make room for and make insurance for Strome and injuries.

Rask is a useful player but lack of consistent sticky is a problem in addition to his skating, which is worse than Stepan's.

 

[rt]

I don't known that Fischer's game is really more complete at this point, but I said in that post I wouldn't trade Fischer for Nelson if it makes you feel better.

Fischer sometimes plays a forceful game with some fortitude on some shifts. He's already more complete just for that.