Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 5

[Todd1a]

I’d rather let Stevie yzerman do his job and build it long term correct he has been doing great so far and we have had chances to get cups in 2016 and 2015 and came close

 

[JAY7791]

Ya and howden, Stephens and cirelli will be major upgrades to our bottom six guys we have now

That's not guaranteed, and we aren't trading all of them lol.

 

[JAY7791]

I’d rather let Stevie yzerman do his job and build it long term correct he has been doing great so far and we have had chances to get cups in 2016 and 2015 and came close

Getting close doesn't really matter. We can upgrade our d and barely notice anybody gone because we have so many forward prospects. Not to mention, there are more drafts for us to pick players in.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I don't get why some people insist on hoarding prospects that we won't even have room for or might not even pan out. Ideally, Howden, Stephens, Cirelli are going to be bottom 6er's. Raddysh and Katchouk might have top 6 upside but even then, our offense is pretty young and full. The fact that we won't move some we won't even notice missing to really enhance winning not 1 cup, but 2 with this roster before big contracts need to be signed, I simply don't agree with. Id rather try now than regret later when some of the prospects we saved don't pan out and we all regret not moving them to help win a cup that is on our finger tips.

It's not hoarding prospects, I'd gladly move Volkov, Cirelli, Yan, Masin and such but it seems like the top 5 all must go to bring in pieces which I have issue with. Let's look at the current roster vs say 20-21 potential one.

Gourde(26) - Stamkos(27) - Kucherov(24)
Palat(26) - Point(21) - Johnson(27)
Killorn(28) - Namestnikov(24) - Conacher(28)
Kunitz(38) - Paquette(24) - Callahan(32)
Peca(24), Erne(22)

Hedman(27) - Dotchin(23)
Sergachev(19) - Stralman(31)
Coburn(32) - Girardi(33)
Sustr(27), Koekkoek(23)

Vasilevskiy(23)
Domingue(25)

? - Stamkos(31) - Kucherov(28)
Palat(30) - Point(25) - Johnson(31)
Killorn(32) - Namestnikov(28) - ?
Erne(26) - Peca(28) - Paquette (28)

Hedman(31) - Dotchin(27)
Sergachev(23) - ?
Koekkoek(27) - ?

Vasilevskiy(27)
Domingue(29)

We still need two top 9 forwards, who knows if Killorn, Johnson, Palat and Namestnikov are still top 9. I doubt Palat and Johnson are top 6 so we need to replace them. The defense has Dotchin top pair and nothing else on the right. Ideally we have Howden, Raddysh and Katchouk in the top 9. Foote, Hajek and Cernak on defense. We move those pieces and we have Yan, Tammela, Sosunov and Spencer trying to fill in. We can add in free agency but that's not a long-term fix, we can draft a few good prospects but they'll need time.

If we can add while only losing one of Howden/Katchouk/Raddysh/Stephens and Foote/Hajek/Cernak while using lesser prospects I'd be all for it, it's the multiple high end prospects and picks I think is a bad idea.

 

[JAY7791]

It's not hoarding prospects, I'd gladly move Volkov, Cirelli, Yan, Masin and such but it seems like the top 5 all must go to bring in pieces which I have issue with. Let's look at the current roster vs say 20-21 potential one.

Gourde(26) - Stamkos(27) - Kucherov(24)
Palat(26) - Point(21) - Johnson(27)
Killorn(28) - Namestnikov(24) - Conacher(28)
Kunitz(38) - Paquette(24) - Callahan(32)
Peca(24), Erne(22)

Hedman(27) - Dotchin(23)
Sergachev(19) - Stralman(31)
Coburn(32) - Girardi(33)
Sustr(27), Koekkoek(23)

Vasilevskiy(23)
Domingue(25)

? - Stamkos(31) - Kucherov(28)
Palat(30) - Point(25) - Johnson(31)
Killorn(32) - Namestnikov(28) - ?
Erne(26) - Peca(28) - Paquette (28)

Hedman(31) - Dotchin(27)
Sergachev(23) - ?
Koekkoek(27) - ?

Vasilevskiy(27)
Domingue(29)

We still need two top 9 forwards, who knows if Killorn, Johnson, Palat and Namestnikov are still top 9. I doubt Palat and Johnson are top 6 so we need to replace them. The defense has Dotchin top pair and nothing else on the right. Ideally we have Howden, Raddysh and Katchouk in the top 9. Foote, Hajek and Cernak on defense. We move those pieces and we have Yan, Tammela, Sosunov and Spencer trying to fill in. We can add in free agency but that's not a long-term fix, we can draft a few good prospects but they'll need time.

If we can add while only losing one of Howden/Katchouk/Raddysh/Stephens and Foote/Hajek/Cernak while using lesser prospects I'd be all for it, it's the multiple high end prospects and picks I think is a bad idea.

Just to confirm I fully believe in not over paying and prospects are important. But to counter your point, there are more drafts until then, there is free agency, etc. These aren't the only prospects we will have for the next 3 years. Cernak is looking good as a RHD and would be ready by then as well. I think we should keep Foote out of the deals as well. And there are 2 open forward spots 3 years later in the projection, and we have how many forward prospects. Not all of them will fit.

 

[These Are The Days]

Probably if that’s how long it take who knows we could win the cup this year or next year depends we could get lucky. Yzerman was 30 years old for his first cup and he ended up getting three it worked out for him

We're not the 90's Red Wings, Todd.... you cannot compare the situations even remotely

 

[HoseEmDown]

Just to confirm I fully believe in not over paying and prospects are important. But to counter your point, there are more drafts until then, there is free agency, etc. These aren't the only prospects we will have for the next 3 years. Cernak is looking good as a RHD and would be ready by then as well. I think we should keep Foote out of the deals as well. And there are 2 open forward spots 3 years later in the projection, and we have how many forward prospects. Not all of them will fit.

I said there are drafts and free agency but those prospects will need time while this crop is 2 to 3 years removed from their draft and are closer to ready. Free agency is usually never good and we won't have much money as we have a lot of players locked up the next several years. If we're moving our best prospects then we have lesser prospects trying to fill in and we won't be good enough. With Hedman and Sergachev in the pro's and guys like Hajek, Masin and Sosunov in the system another LD isn't the answer unless it's to upgrade Coburn. A Coburn + deal I'd be all for but we aren't getting McDonagh with that.

 

[Shoresy Snipes]

Any chance someone can start a poll? Test the fan base to see how many think we should be "all in, win now, give me an all-star upgrade" vs "steady builds the modern cap-era dynasty, just fill the holes with adequate upgrades"

So far, I'm in the camp that Yzerman really is the long-play type of guy that's looking to build the perennial powerhouse, in that us fans don't really have to even worry about making the playoffs year after year, its just a matter of staying healthy and getting hot at the right time a few of those years and then we're the next Chi/Pitt taking home 3 cups in 6, 7, 8 years or so.

It also seems that in this new cap-era, fast-fast-fast style, that running a steady 4&3 lines and having that DEPTH is the key. Whatever happens, I just hope we keep depth and we don't have to be worried every time a Sustr, Paq, whoever else is on the ice because we need a warm body. Get rid of our weak links and we will go far.

 

[TampaBoltz]

Just a reminder that SY was willing to go pretty much all in last year at this time. Must see the weakness at RD. Drouin for Shattenkirk if reports were true. And 7 years and 7M for Shattenkirk. I wold love to see us go after Manson if the Ducks fall out of race. His new deal starts next year at 4.1 I think. Very good RD on very good contract. They might be ready for changes if they don’t make playoffs. There are other deals out there I think besides McD and Green, eventhough Green might be a lower cost great fit.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Any chance someone can start a poll? Test the fan base to see how many think we should be "all in, win now, give me an all-star upgrade" vs "steady builds the modern cap-era dynasty, just fill the holes with adequate upgrades"

So far, I'm in the camp that Yzerman really is the long-play type of guy that's looking to build the perennial powerhouse, in that us fans don't really have to even worry about making the playoffs year after year, its just a matter of staying healthy and getting hot at the right time a few of those years and then we're the next Chi/Pitt taking home 3 cups in 6, 7, 8 years or so.

It also seems that in this new cap-era, fast-fast-fast style, that running a steady 4&3 lines and having that DEPTH is the key. Whatever happens, I just hope we keep depth and we don't have to be worried every time a Sustr, Paq, whoever else is on the ice because we need a warm body. Get rid of our weak links and we will go far.

You should add a "blow it up" option. You see what people are willing to pay for McDonagh or Karlsson who have 1.5 seasons left, just imagine what Hedman would get. Stamkos value is never gonna be higher than right now, same for Kucherov. We could have the ultimate prospect pool if we made those moves. Who needs the Stanley Cup when you can claim the Prospect Cup. It's just like college football, nobody cares who wins the national championship it's all about getting that top recruiting class.

 

[Shoresy Snipes]

We're not the 90's Red Wings, Todd.... you cannot compare the situations even remotely

Why can there be no comparison? How remote is remotely?
Those Wings were real good, for real long. Even won the cup, a few times, during those good years.

Granted, the situations are not identical, but they're not exactly worlds apart either. I'd like to think we can be real good, for real long too, and even bring home a few cups during some of those years. Better than one-and-done, but it could go either way, who really knows.

On a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't make a splash just because all the other GM's are pissed at Yzerman for our current team standings, prospect depth, drafting prowess, etc. and think they are going to stick it to him and he's just gonna give in because he has more to give.

 

[Sky04]

Why can there be no comparison? How remote is remotely?
Those Wings were real good, for real long. Even won the cup, a few times, during those good years.

Granted, the situations are not identical, but they're not exactly worlds apart either. I'd like to think we can be real good, for real long too, and even bring home a few cups during some of those years. Better than one-and-done, but it could go either way, who really knows.

On a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't make a splash just because all the other GM's are pissed at Yzerman for our current team standings, prospect depth, drafting prowess, etc. and think they are going to stick it to him and he's just gonna give in because he has more to give.

Because there's this thing called a salary cap.

 

[The Gongshow]

I'm just saying we can afford to lose a few prospects and still be fine in the future. Why not take a run at the cup with our current core while its affordable and performing.

Sure we've played like **** for the past few games but we can't win them all. Have they been over performing this year? maybe at times but lets roll with the luck and try and cup a cup run or two in.

Why wait for our new core thats like 6 years away when we have an awesome one now??

 

[These Are The Days]

Because there's this thing called a salary cap.

Just beat me to it

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Rangers beat writer proposing:

Mcdonagh at 50%

for...

Sergachev and Callahan

 

[The Gongshow]

Rangers beat writer proposing:

Mcdonagh at 50%

for...

Sergachev and Callahan

If its possible I'd try and keep Serg in any trade

 

[Sky04]

Rangers beat writer proposing:

Mcdonagh at 50%

for...

Sergachev and Callahan

I can't tell which team that's worse for.

 

[Todd1a]

That's not guaranteed, and we aren't trading all of them lol.

It’s not but by our draft history there not all going to be busts probably 50 percent of them become studs. I want a cup as soon as possible but we got to remain patient and let yzerman draft and develop. If the right trade is there Stevie yzerman will pull the trigger on it.

 

[Todd1a]

If its possible I'd try and keep Serg in any trade

Trading sergachev would be the biggest mistake the lightning would ever make in two years he will be a stud probably a top 15 defenseman in the league

 

[These Are The Days]

And for what it's worth it is highly unlikely that Stamkos will be as good as Yzerman in his 30's. The rest of our team stands to only get older or have its prime wasted by years of contention without ever winning it all

 

[Todd1a]

Rangers beat writer proposing:

Mcdonagh at 50%

for...

Sergachev and Callahan

Can we also trade cooper for there coach as well lol

 

[The Gongshow]

And for what it's worth it is highly unlikely that Stamkos will be as good as Yzerman in his 30's. The rest of our team stands to only get older or have its prime wasted by years of contention without ever winning it all

Agreed, which is why I think Yzerman should make a deal and give this team a little boost.

 

[DFC]

It's not hoarding prospects, I'd gladly move Volkov, Cirelli, Yan, Masin and such but it seems like the top 5 all must go to bring in pieces which I have issue with. Let's look at the current roster vs say 20-21 potential one.

Gourde(26) - Stamkos(27) - Kucherov(24)
Palat(26) - Point(21) - Johnson(27)
Killorn(28) - Namestnikov(24) - Conacher(28)
Kunitz(38) - Paquette(24) - Callahan(32)
Peca(24), Erne(22)

Hedman(27) - Dotchin(23)
Sergachev(19) - Stralman(31)
Coburn(32) - Girardi(33)
Sustr(27), Koekkoek(23)

Vasilevskiy(23)
Domingue(25)

? - Stamkos(31) - Kucherov(28)
Palat(30) - Point(25) - Johnson(31)
Killorn(32) - Namestnikov(28) - ?
Erne(26) - Peca(28) - Paquette (28)

Hedman(31) - Dotchin(27)
Sergachev(23) - ?
Koekkoek(27) - ?

Vasilevskiy(27)
Domingue(29)

We still need two top 9 forwards, who knows if Killorn, Johnson, Palat and Namestnikov are still top 9. I doubt Palat and Johnson are top 6 so we need to replace them. The defense has Dotchin top pair and nothing else on the right. Ideally we have Howden, Raddysh and Katchouk in the top 9. Foote, Hajek and Cernak on defense. We move those pieces and we have Yan, Tammela, Sosunov and Spencer trying to fill in. We can add in free agency but that's not a long-term fix, we can draft a few good prospects but they'll need time.

If we can add while only losing one of Howden/Katchouk/Raddysh/Stephens and Foote/Hajek/Cernak while using lesser prospects I'd be all for it, it's the multiple high end prospects and picks I think is a bad idea.

It's actually pretty comforting that all our major bases are still covered at that point. It's really secondary/depth players we're gonna need, and those are easier to acquire.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm gonna pose a serious question to those who are concerned with giving up too much.

If the goal is to just remain a contender then why should we ever.... EVER Cooper over the next few years? We'll make the playoffs! But what if we don't win? We just say awww shucks maybe next year we've got prospects?

Teams who don't maximize their potential for the best possible roster seldom win it all

 

[DFC]

I can't tell which team that's worse for.

Well... if we wanted to load up, it would give us this year and next year to REALLY load up.