N.Y. Orangeman
Registered User
This, praying to hit on multiple top-4 defenseman in later rounds, actually makes less sense given our organizational makeup and the current market dynamics.
2016 Draft Thread III – Host: Buffalo – Pick: 8th
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This, praying to hit on multiple top-4 defenseman in later rounds, actually makes less sense given our organizational makeup and the current market dynamics.
JThorne
Stop accepting failure
Grinder44
Registered User
Yeah, I kinda agree about Button (and most mockers). But he did nail 1 thru 8 in his final mock last year, so there's that.
NotABadPeriod
ForFriendshipDikembe
- Oct 28, 2006
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Even if the D-men are 2+ years away from having an impact, why is that necessarily a bad thing? 2+ years from now, we're probably still going to need D-men given that the pipeline is basically Guhle, Borgen, and crapshoots. And we might lose someone in an expansion draft. And if the team pans out we could lose someone in a cap crunch.
Granted, all these reasons can also apply to forwards, but the point is that the timeframe shouldn't really be a factor right now. We still need talent on the back end that could be potential top pairing D-men, even if that's not in 2016-17. Passing on a D-man just because their development might take longer is extremely short-sighted.
Granted, all these reasons can also apply to forwards, but the point is that the timeframe shouldn't really be a factor right now. We still need talent on the back end that could be potential top pairing D-men, even if that's not in 2016-17. Passing on a D-man just because their development might take longer is extremely short-sighted.
NotABadPeriod
ForFriendshipDikembe
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It IS still a need though. It's a long term need, but the pipeline desperately needs talent on the blue line. Last year added quantity, but we still need quality. Organizationally, it's probably the biggest need, since we already have a bunch of excellent young forwards. We've got 3 guys who are 1st line quality (Eichel, Reinhart, ROR) and a bunch of middle 6 guys (Girgensons, Larsson, Kane, Ennis, prospects like Bailey/Fasching who project to that range). Adding another top forward would be nice, but looking at the defense, the hole is huge. We have exactly 1 D-man that is or projects to the top pairing: Risto. We have some guys that might be middle pairing guys, some who might be bottom pairing guys...but we lack the high end talent.
This team absolutely NEEDS to add talent on the blue line in the prospect ranks. You can try rolling the dice in the later rounds and praying, but if Chychrun is there at 8, you take him.
mike8219
Registered User
No. I'd buy your argument if you were arguing for Jake Bean or Dante Fabbro. Chychrun? No. He has no upside. He is what he is, as-is, right now.
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Chychrun is most likely better than Bogosian - like, stepping into the league next year, Chychrun is probably close, even. But, that is not the ****ing test for who they should draft at #8. FFS, forwards are so much more valuable than defensman, it is comical to suggest the Sabres should draft a limited D-man at #8 just because he's the better "prospect" because he happened to physically develop into a large person at age 16 or 17 instead of age 19 or 20. That doesn't even make him the better "prospect." Does he have the skill to play in the NHL? Can he process the game at that speed? These are HUGE questions with him. He can skate well and stand up to ppl trying to throw the body on him, but that's ****ing irrelevant if he can't make the right reads. As of now, he's okay, yes. Can he speed it up? There are legitimate reasons to believe he cannot. And there are legitimate reasons to believe he cannot produce points at the NHL level based on his OHL game.
Aside from those concerns, yes, he's a guaranteed NHL'er. The question is, how good will he be? Will Juolevi be better? Will Jake Bean be better? Will Dante Fabbro be better? They have upside. The Sabres better be goddamn certain that they know the answers to those questions and they can explain WHY they think so. "He's really physically developed for a 17-year-old!" is a really ****ing bad answer to that question, btw.
makes sense
Oh FFS - he'll play in the league. The question is whether he can elevate his game. AS OF NOW, there is no evidence that he can and no evidence that he can't. Pick your poison. If you think he can elevate his game, it's just a guess. I think he'll be just okay and you could get a 2nd round (or later) defenseman to replace his production. That's my guess.
While you could argue that all prospects are like that, in this case, MUCH of the hype is driven by Chychrun's physical tools - he's 6'2", he skates really well and he shoots hard. He's pretty good in his own end. He's okay. He's an NHL'er. Yay! A sure thing! (GM's be like: "I won't get fired!"). But the Sabres do not need another guy who fills space in the top 4. The Sabres need a guy who can:
1) get the puck to Eichel and Reinhart (Chychrun is just okay in that department, and I'd worry because he seems to favor carrying the puck himself); and
2) make smart plays. But that would require hockey sense in the neutral zone. Chychrun's hockey sense, like every other aspect of his game, is just adequate.
Heads up - the scouting report on Erik Karlsson was not, "Eh, he's okay, idk, w/e, our org really needs a RD."
Pronman's latest top 100 available without the ESPN paywall: http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/top-100-prospects-2016-nhl-draft/story?id=39091742
Zman5778
Moderator
Yep. It's a Pronman ranking. Always controversial (and I'm not referring to his #1 prospect)
OkimLom
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- May 3, 2010
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Bolded is very odd...
We NEED a guy who can flourish with Risto on the 1st pairing and can assist Risto with moving the puck in transition. He necessarily doesn't NEED to be THE guy, but he needs to be able to handle the type of minutes that Risto can, be able to handle the top guys defensively and pretty much be the perfect partner for our 1st pairing guys.
Sabre the Win
Joke of a Franchise
- Jun 27, 2013
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While this team does need some LHD absolutely you are still taking a chance and rolling the dice on selecting Chychrun at 8 over someone like Nylander or Juolevi.
Der Jaeger
Generational EBUG
Agree, but think this amounts the half the blue line needs.
In the D conversation, it may get lost that Ristolainen does everything the team needs. Finding a suitable partner is key. I think Minnesota comes into play here, as Brodin or Scandella would be perfect.
The second pair could use a puck mover. Fowler, Sanheim, Juolevi, Sergachev, Bean, etc.
He ranks like I would expect a scout to rank -- he's got strong opinions and positions on players and ranks accordingly.
I wonder if there's any circumstance where Murray looks to trade down. Maybe he just isn't sold on who's there when our pick is up. Who would make the best trading partner?? Philly?? Boston?? NJ?? All have some possibly enticing LHD men.
OkimLom
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- May 3, 2010
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No trading down is almost always a stupid play. I'd need like two first rounders coming back to even consider it.
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No no, not perpetuating anything, just asking hypothetically, what if??
That's fine. I was just curious to speculate what GMTM's thought process might be on the concept.
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