2016 Draft Thread III – Host: Buffalo – Pick: 8th

[Sabre the Win]

I think Joulevi has the least potential of the top D prospects

Why? but if you want to play that game then his Hockey IQ makes him have the highest floor of the top defensemen.

What worries me....Pysyk is great skater who has NEVER put up points-despite his skills with the Oil Kings, Amerks or Sabres.

Why does a defensemen have to always become a offensive defensemen? Why can't we be happy with a defensive defensemen who can shut down opposing teams lines and transition pass out of our zone to oh you know the offensive forwards who are "suppose" to score?

It seems kind of stupid to me when everyone discusses defensemen on the offensive game. Well if the team was all only offensive. Who's going to stay back and play defense?

 

[hizzoner]

I do not think we should give up on looking for a new Brian Campbell, Phil Housley etc..
we want forwards to backcheck, cover the points, clear the slot--not just score. Anyhow this part of the thread seems done as no one has an opinion on Bean which is what I hoped to elicit.

 

[Chainshot]

For someone who has seen him play--is Jake Bean a Karlsson type or more like Brennan or Leduc?

I think THW compared him to TJ Brodie. I hate player-to-player comparisons, personally. If you are wondering if he's more of a project (Leduc/Brennan) or more likely to make it sooner... well... that's hard to say since he's still just 18.

 

[OkimLom]

I do not think we should give up on looking for a new Brian Campbell, Phil Housley etc..
we want forwards to backcheck, cover the points, clear the slot--not just score. Anyhow this part of the thread seems done as no one has an opinion on Bean which is what I hoped to elicit.

For me, Bean is a tier below where Chychrun, Serg, and Juolevi are. I feel there is more consistent play in their own zone than Bean. I don't feel comfortable enough with his own zone play.

Bean is a guy if had we a pick in the 15-20 range that I would be all giddy if we selected him. I actually have him ranked with Fabbro with Fabbro being my favorite of the two.

I like him, just not as much as a few of the other players.

 

[hizzoner]

For me, Bean is a tier below where Chychrun, Serg, and Juolevi are. I feel there is more consistent play in their own zone than Bean. I don't feel comfortable enough with his own zone play.

Bean is a guy if had we a pick in the 15-20 range that I would be all giddy if we selected him. I actually have him ranked with Fabbro with Fabbro being my favorite of the two.

I like him, just not as much as a few of the other players.

Thanks!

 

[Chainshot]

I wonder if Dube's connection to Lambert and Gellert (no longer on staff) gets him some looks in the third round.

 

[truthbluth]

So, Pronman's ranking has made me reconsider Clayton Keller. Someone put together a highlight package of his U18 tournament. I'm ok with him at 8. My preference is for one of the D, but, if the draft falls a certain way, I think you could do worse than an electrifying speedster with great hockey IQ and hands. I'm not sure where he fits in the roster makeup, but with the way he tilts the ice, I'm sure we could find a place for him.

 

[OkimLom]

Thanks!

Just a reminder, this is my opinion all based on what I have watched. I'm 100% sure other people feel differently.

 

[Heraldic]

This "organisational need" thing has been way overblown here. I mean, there were actually posters willing to take Chychrun before Laine.

I absolutely hope they go BPA. We won't fix the LHD situation with the pick anyhow. It wasn't that long since our LHD situation was clearly best in our oganisation - now it's the weakest link. Philly drafted Giroux when they already got relatively young great centers in Richards and Carter. Didn't end up being a bad call...

And this "you wanna go the Edmonton route" is just pretty ridiculous. I mean, who actually think that going with Haydn Fleury instead of Draisaitl would have been a good call? That's the situation you easily could be if you emphasize too much "organisational" need.

I'm just happy that in this draft we seem to have the best players playing the position we lack the most. But if the management is confident that a player like Brown or Keller is the BPA there, I hope they pick one of them.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

This "organisational need" thing has been way overblown here. I mean, there were actually posters willing to take Chychrun before Laine.

I absolutely hope they go BPA. We won't fix the LHD situation with the pick anyhow. It wasn't that long since our LHD situation was clearly best in our oganisation - now it's the weakest link. Philly drafted Giroux when they already got relatively young great centers in Richards and Carter. Didn't end up being a bad call...

And this "you wanna go the Edmonton route" is just pretty ridiculous. I mean, who actually think that going with Haydn Fleury instead of Draisaitl would have been a good call? That's the situation you easily could be if you emphasize too much "organisational" need.

I'm just happy that in this draft we seem to have the best players playing the position we lack the most. But if the management is confident that a player like Brown or Keller is the BPA there, I hope they pick one of them.

This gets to the crux of the issue. Some people advocating BPA make the assumption that the difference between the BPA and the "need" is the difference between eight and six on scale of ten. If that is the case, I don't believe anyone here would support taking a six over an eight. If, however, the two in the same band and the difference is 8.3 and 8.1 while filling a significant organizational need, which I would submit is closer to the actual situation, a valid argument can be made for taking the 8.1.

 

[Ace]

This gets to the crux of the issue. Some people advocating BPA make the assumption that the difference between the BPA and the "need" is the difference between eight and six on scale of ten. If that is the case, I don't believe anyone here would support taking a six over an eight. If, however, the two in the same band and the difference is 8.3 and 8.1 while filling a significant organizational need, which I would submit is closer to the actual situation, a valid argument can be made for taking the 8.1.

It has become that out of whack here. The draft rankings we voted on show it. It's the only place left where Chychrun is seen as a worthwhile pick that high (4!) It's a group delusion set on by "organizational need".

He's closer to the 4th best d then he is the 4th best player.

Not here though.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It has become that out of whack here. The draft rankings we voted on show it. It's the only place left where Chychrun is seen as a worthwhile pick that high (4!) It's a group delusion set on by "organizational need".

He's closer to the 4th best d then he is the 4th best player.

Not here though.

This is complete nonsense. The local Edminton paper had an article that basically says their GM is irresponsible (and worse) if he doesn't take Chychrun at 4. Most mock drafts also have them taking him or Juolevi at 4, but please, continue posting about your dumb conspiracy theory.

 

[truthbluth]

This is complete nonsense. The local Edminton paper had an article that basically says their GM is irresponsible (and worse) if he doesn't take Chychrun at 4. Most mock drafts also have them taking him or Juolevi at 4, but please, continue posting about your dumb conspiracy theory.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but plenty of people doubt Chychrun's abilities. If they draft Chychrun or Joulevi ahead of people they have higher ranked in their board simply because of public pressure, then their management should all be fired. These are 18 year old kids. Any player they select at 4 is at least 2 years from being a major contributor (in all likelihood). What are they going to do, not bring in an NHL dman now because they drafted an 18 yr old?

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but plenty of people doubt Chychrun's abilities. If they draft Chychrun or Joulevi ahead of people they have higher ranked in their board simply because of public pressure, then their management should all be fired. These are 18 year old kids. Any player they select at 4 is at least 2 years from being a major contributor (in all likelihood). What are they going to do, not bring in an NHL dman now because they drafted an 18 yr old?

http://www.tsn.ca/laine-closes-gap-on-matthews-atop-tsn-draft-rankings-1.478128

Here's why it's not easy to get consensus on the relative ranking of the defencemen.

Chychrun was the only defenceman to be ranked in anyone's top four prospects. One scout had him at No. 4 overall. But only four of the 10 scouts surveyed had him in their Top 10; six had him ranked 11th or lower. Worth noting, though, is that of the four scouts who ranked Chychrun in the Top 10, all four viewed him as the best defenceman in the draft.

In contrast, Juolevi’s highest rank was No. 5 overall, but nine of 10 scouts had him in their top 10. Two scouts had him ranked as the top D-man in the draft.
Sergachev’s highest rank was No. 6; seven of 10 scouts had him in their Top 10 but only two ranked him as the top defenceman in the draft.

There are certainly a range of opinions on Chychrun, Juolevi, and Sergachev.

Chychrun seems to be the most "love him or hate him" of the bunch.

And as far as talking heads influencing who NHL teams draft....



If Edmonton goes with a D as BPA at 4, it's likely that need influenced their board.

 

[stokes84]

So, Pronman's ranking has made me reconsider Clayton Keller. Someone put together a highlight package of his U18 tournament. I'm ok with him at 8. My preference is for one of the D, but, if the draft falls a certain way, I think you could do worse than an electrifying speedster with great hockey IQ and hands. I'm not sure where he fits in the roster makeup, but with the way he tilts the ice, I'm sure we could find a place for him.

I feel like Keller is more Nic Petan than he is Johnny Hockey.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

So, Pronman's ranking has made me reconsider Clayton Keller. Someone put together a highlight package of his U18 tournament. I'm ok with him at 8. My preference is for one of the D, but, if the draft falls a certain way, I think you could do worse than an electrifying speedster with great hockey IQ and hands. I'm not sure where he fits in the roster makeup, but with the way he tilts the ice, I'm sure we could find a place for him.

I don't think his speed and quickness is on par with Gaudreau or Pat Kane. He looks a tick slower to me, and I worry how that will translate at the NHL level.

 

[truthbluth]

I don't think his speed and quickness is on par with Gaudreau or Pat Kane. He looks a tick slower to me, and I worry how that will translate at the NHL level.

I disagree.
https://youtu.be/R17NWnp78sA

 

[Jame]

I don't think his speed and quickness is on par with Gaudreau or Pat Kane. He looks a tick slower to me, and I worry how that will translate at the NHL level.

I agree. He's Marner without the extra gear. I dig his tenacity off the puck more than anything.

I disagree.
https://youtu.be/R17NWnp78sA

Skill level with the puck is elite. Skating is overrated. Those types of players (small/skill) without the extra gear.... worry me.

There are too many players that are going to be available that fit our needs or have a higher floor along with a similar ceiling, to take Keller at 8.

I'm not willing to bet on him being the next Dylan Larkin. Let someone in the middle of round 1 take that chance.

 

[Zip15]

So, Pronman's ranking has made me reconsider Clayton Keller. Someone put together a highlight package of his U18 tournament. I'm ok with him at 8. My preference is for one of the D, but, if the draft falls a certain way, I think you could do worse than an electrifying speedster with great hockey IQ and hands. I'm not sure where he fits in the roster makeup, but with the way he tilts the ice, I'm sure we could find a place for him.

The U18 opened my eyes to Jost more than anyone. Not sure I'd take him at 8, but he's going to be excellent in the NHL.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

I agree. He's Marner without the extra gear. I dig his tenacity off the puck more than anything.



Skill level with the puck is elite. Skating is overrated. Those types of players (small/skill) without the extra gear.... worry me.

There are too many players that are going to be available that fit our needs or have a higher floor along with a similar ceiling, to take Keller at 8.

I'm not willing to bet on him being the next Dylan Larkin. Let someone in the middle of round 1 take that chance.

I will say, I'd like to see his draft stock continue to rise. Perhaps it's a possibility that he goes Top-7. The more wildcards thrown into the 4-7 range, the better for the GMTM.

 

[Heraldic]

This gets to the crux of the issue. Some people advocating BPA make the assumption that the difference between the BPA and the "need" is the difference between eight and six on scale of ten. If that is the case, I don't believe anyone here would support taking a six over an eight. If, however, the two in the same band and the difference is 8.3 and 8.1 while filling a significant organizational need, which I would submit is closer to the actual situation, a valid argument can be made for taking the 8.1.

Sure, you can argue that when we're talking about Logan Brown/Ryan Keller and Jake Bean.

But we got several posters having Chychrun ahead of Laine. And even more posters taking him before Puljujärvi. And if some of those posters make that choice based on BPA, I'm even more concerned.

You even find a comment saying that taking Pulju ahead of Chychrun would be like Edmonton taking Yakupov.

I'm honestly surprised that so many posters are so eager to drink certain kool-aid here.

 

[1972]

I don't expect Keller to be a top 10 selection. Based on history he's more likely in that 12-15 range.

 

[Chainshot]

If there is a wildcard to hop into the top 10, I think it's Jost.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Why? but if you want to play that game then his Hockey IQ makes him have the highest floor of the top defensemen.

Why does a defensemen have to always become a offensive defensemen? Why can't we be happy with a defensive defensemen who can shut down opposing teams lines and transition pass out of our zone to oh you know the offensive forwards who are "suppose" to score?

It seems kind of stupid to me when everyone discusses defensemen on the offensive game. Well if the team was all only offensive. Who's going to stay back and play defense?

the problem with cherry picking a quote is that you miss the answer to the question in the next line, and then repeat the answer in response to someone else

 

[MayDayMayDay]

If there is a wildcard to hop into the top 10, I think it's Jost.

He or Logan Brown. Teams love that size at C.