Player Discussion: 2016-17 All Goalie Talk

[Nautica54]

I understand. But to rely on a goalie to fix the rush is a backwards idea. Fix the damn rush with the defenders/forwards. Goalies, stop the damn puck.

I know what you're saying though.

Vasi did 100% what he needed to last game.

Agreed. Bishop made those issues not as glaring. If we roll with Vasy next year, some major changes are going to take place.

 

[The Macho King]

Yeah - a little weird blaming the loss on the guy that gave up one goal in regulation in like 36 shots.

 

[DFC]

Vasy's been great in his last several appearances, and his game management seems to have recovered from the little hiccup he had. I'd be fine with him moving forward, even if there are sure to be more growing pains ahead.

 

[RDTBay4]

I say we re-sign Bishop and deal Vasilevskiy if necessary. What say you?
Wanna have a laugh? Read through this thread then read the last few pages of the Tampa v Calgary thread from tonight.

 

[Stammertime91]

Keep them both and deal Vasy in the offseason. If he's the guy we move, no need to move a backup or rush a move now. Move Filppula and his I can't shoot mentality, Garrison and Vasy in the offseason and resign Bishop.

Do we risk 3 years of woes and **** away cheaper contracts and let Vasy come into his own, whenever that may be, or continue to contend with some minor changes year to year. Going with Bishop gives us a few years to find another goalie to slide in gradually with a hopefully more mobile backend. As it is with this roster, we're gonna die a slow and painful death next year with them in front of Vasy 50-60 games.

I hope, of course, I'm wrong but this season has not helped his case. Keep Ben. For God's sake, keep what we know we have.

 

[T REX]

Vasy is not ready. Bish is. Coop has the team trending down. Yzerman has some major decisions ahead.

 

[Rschmitz]

I say we re-sign Bishop and deal Vasilevskiy if necessary. What say you?
Wanna have a laugh? Read through this thread then read the last few pages of the Tampa v Calgary thread from tonight.

Keep them both and deal Vasy in the offseason. If he's the guy we move, no need to move a backup or rush a move now. Move Filppula and his I can't shoot mentality, Garrison and Vasy in the offseason and resign Bishop.

Do we risk 3 years of woes and **** away cheaper contracts and let Vasy come into his own, whenever that may be, or continue to contend with some minor changes year to year. Going with Bishop gives us a few years to find another goalie to slide in gradually with a hopefully more mobile backend. As it is with this roster, we're gonna die a slow and painful death next year with them in front of Vasy 50-60 games.

I hope, of course, I'm wrong but this season has not helped his case. Keep Ben. For God's sake, keep what we know we have.

Both of you recommend a deal

 

[RDTBay4]

Both of you recommend a deal

I'll take my chances with Bish. Our window is closing, perhaps closed.

A vote for Vasi is a vote for total rebuild.

 

[Stammertime91]

Both of you recommend a deal

Recommend a deal for who? For Vasy, Bishop, Garrison, etc?

 

[Rschmitz]

Recommend a deal for who? For Vasy, Bishop, Garrison, etc?

Vasy since you both are advocating trading him

I'll take my chances with Bish. Our window is closing, perhaps closed.

A vote for Vasi is a vote for total rebuild.

...Alright. Now recommend a deal for Vasi that makes sense for us

 

[RDTBay4]

Vasy since you both are advocating trading him



...Alright. Now recommend a deal for Vasi that makes sense for us

Package him with contract(s) we don't want.

It won't happen though. We're stuck with Vasilevskiy at this point. Our back up will be a load of fun too haha.

 

[Sky04]

Vasy since you both are advocating trading him



...Alright. Now recommend a deal for Vasi that makes sense for us

lol stop being so defensive, what does asking a fan on a message board to propose a trade do? Vasi could easily return a good piece from another team if on the block or be combined with a bad contract so we can unload, that's all that matters.

 

[dechire]

Dallas would give a truckload of assets for Vasy if he really were available.

 

[Rschmitz]

lol stop being so defensive, what does asking a fan on a message board to propose a trade do? Vasi could easily return a good piece from another team if on the block or be combined with a bad contract so we can unload, that's all that matters.

How exactly is asking them to propose a trade being defensive? What do I have to be defensive about? You rationalize in a weird way. I'm genuinely curious what they believe a good deal for Vasi would look like, to see if it was worth entertaining the thought of actually dealing him.


Also, you say lol a lot. Bad habit, or are you that easily amused?

 

[Rschmitz]

Dallas would give a truckload of assets for Vasy if he really were available.

That's what I was thinking, that would be the perfect destination

 

[Stammertime91]

Vasy since you both are advocating trading him



...Alright. Now recommend a deal for Vasi that makes sense for us

Well its a matter of who is taken in the draft, who is traded at the deadline and/or the offseason.

I'll give you what I wouldn't mind seeing.

Drouin($5m)/Stamkos ($8.5m)/Kucherov ($4.7m)
Palat(4.25m)/Johnson($4.75m)/Point(661K)
Namestnikov($1.94m)/?/Callahan ($5.8m)
Brown ($1.25m)/Paquette($813K)/Dumont ($875k)

Hedman($7.88m)/Dotchin ($1.2m)
?/Stralman($4.5m)
Coburn ($3.7m)/Sustr (1.25m)*

Bishop($6m)
Back up ?

Dead space ($1.83m)

With that alone, we are sitting at $66,659,000 with needing to sign/trade for a 3C, 2nd pairing defenseman and a back up. I'm not sure how Wilcox is doing but I would imagine we can get a back up for 2m or less some way some how. That leaves around 6 million to acquire a 2nd pairing defenseman and a 3/4C. Now, if Boyle resigned for 3m, we'd have roughly 3m for a defenseman.

Honest mistake if I have missed something or overlooked a contract but those contracts I guessed on seemed reasonable enough. Drouin can be a tricky one. The biggest task is getting rid of Garrison, Filppula and Killorn without retaining from the first two. If we have to, play Koekkoek and we save from acquiring a defenseman, but problem is, we will still seemed trigger defensively more than likely.

Lethal top 6, decent bottom 6 (we know it has issues) and we keep Bishop.

Trade Vasy for something that's cheap and fits on the back end preferably.

Edit: Also, we'd get even smaller by removing Boyle which would be a bad idea, but we could lose Boyle and bring up Erne if he's ready and it's even cheaper. There's options and Yzerman has studied this more in depth than this entire board and knows the rroute he's gonna take and who he wants here. It's definitely doable to keep Bishop WITH a competitive team.

also the asterisk by Sustr is whatever we decide to do with him as well. Can't see too many moves happening on the back end but then again, do they bring him back?

 

[Rschmitz]

Package him with contract(s) we don't want.

It won't happen though. We're stuck with Vasilevskiy at this point. Our back up will be a load of fun too haha.

I don't think it's worth dealing Vasilevskiy just to dump contracts. The Callahan contract is very volatile, imagine trading Vasy to dump Callahan and then he retires or goes on the LTIR. If we are dealing Vasy, it has to be a hockey trade or I would be firmly against it.

 

[Stammertime91]

I don't think it's worth dealing Vasilevskiy just to dump contracts. The Callahan contract is very volatile, imagine trading Vasy to dump Callahan and then he retires or goes on the LTIR. If we are dealing Vasy, it has to be a hockey trade or I would be firmly against it.

That'd be even better imo. Gives us more room to acquire a legitimate top 4 defenseman. If over 9m went off the books with him on LTIR and Vasy being traded for a defenseman or high end prospect, that is still pretty good. Sure we lose a backup and a RW in the process but I believe we have options that can replace both from within before even considering what Vasy would get in return.

 

[Rschmitz]

Well its a matter of who is taken in the draft, who is traded at the deadline and/or the offseason.

I'll give you what I wouldn't mind seeing.

Drouin($5m)/Stamkos ($8.5m)/Kucherov ($4.7m)
Palat(4.25m)/Johnson($4.75m)/Point(661K)
Namestnikov($1.94m)/?/Callahan ($5.8m)
Brown ($1.25m)/Paquette($813K)/Dumont ($875k)

Hedman($7.88m)/Dotchin ($1.2m)
?/Stralman($4.5m)
Coburn ($3.7m)/Sustr (1.25m)*

Bishop($6m)
Back up ?

Dead space ($1.83m)

With that alone, we are sitting at $66,659,000 with needing to sign/trade for a 3C, 2nd pairing defenseman and a back up. I'm not sure how Wilcox is doing but I would imagine we can get a back up for 2m or less some way some how. That leaves around 6 million to acquire a 2nd pairing defenseman and a 3/4C. Now, if Boyle resigned for 3m, we'd have roughly 3m for a defenseman.

Honest mistake if I have missed something or overlooked a contract but those contracts I guessed on seemed reasonable enough. Drouin can be a tricky one. The biggest task is getting rid of Garrison, Filppula and Killorn without retaining from the first two. If we have to, play Koekkoek and we save from acquiring a defenseman, but problem is, we will still seemed trigger defensively more than likely.

Lethal top 6, decent bottom 6 (we know it has issues) and we keep Bishop.

Trade Vasy for something that's cheap and fits on the back end preferably.

Edit: Also, we'd get even smaller by removing Boyle which would be a bad idea, but we could lose Boyle and bring up Erne if he's ready and it's even cheaper. There's options and Yzerman has studied this more in depth than this entire board and knows the rite hrs gonna take and who he wants here. It's definitely doable to keep Bishop WITH a competitive team.

I understand the cap ramifications of re-signing Bishop and dealing Vasy, but if Yzerman does decide to go that route, I think we need at least one stud defenseman on an entry level contract coming back and a 1st or else it simply isn't worth it from an asset stand point. I'm not against re-signing Bishop, it's a tough decision to make, even if it looks like Yzerman made up his mind. Filppula, Garrison, Killorn, and Coburn can be shed in a variety of ways, dealing Vasy on the other hand is an opportunity to fill a need that Yzerman has to capitalize on. If he can't, I would have to say no.

 

[Stammertime91]

I understand the cap ramifications of re-signing Bishop and dealing Vasy, but if Yzerman does decide to go that route, I think we need at least one stud defenseman on an entry level contract coming back and a 1st or else it simply isn't worth it from an asset stand point. I'm not against re-signing Bishop, it's a tough decision to make, even if it looks like Yzerman made up his mind. Filppula, Garrison, Killorn, and Coburn can be shed in a variety of ways, dealing Vasy on the other hand is an opportunity to fill a need that Yzerman has to capitalize on. If he can't, I would have to say no.

Agreed

 

[Rschmitz]

Agreed

How do you feel about Dallas as a destination?

 

[Stammertime91]

How do you feel about Dallas as a destination?

Not too knowledgeable to comment on their prospects though I wouldn't mind him being out west. Lol.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Well its a matter of who is taken in the draft, who is traded at the deadline and/or the offseason.

I'll give you what I wouldn't mind seeing.

Drouin($5m)/Stamkos ($8.5m)/Kucherov ($4.7m)
Palat(4.25m)/Johnson($4.75m)/Point(661K)
Namestnikov($1.94m)/?/Callahan ($5.8m)
Brown ($1.25m)/Paquette($813K)/Dumont ($875k)

Hedman($7.88m)/Dotchin ($1.2m)
?/Stralman($4.5m)
Coburn ($3.7m)/Sustr (1.25m)*

Bishop($6m)
Back up ?

Dead space ($1.83m)

With that alone, we are sitting at $66,659,000 with needing to sign/trade for a 3C, 2nd pairing defenseman and a back up. I'm not sure how Wilcox is doing but I would imagine we can get a back up for 2m or less some way some how. That leaves around 6 million to acquire a 2nd pairing defenseman and a 3/4C. Now, if Boyle resigned for 3m, we'd have roughly 3m for a defenseman.

Honest mistake if I have missed something or overlooked a contract but those contracts I guessed on seemed reasonable enough. Drouin can be a tricky one. The biggest task is getting rid of Garrison, Filppula and Killorn without retaining from the first two. If we have to, play Koekkoek and we save from acquiring a defenseman, but problem is, we will still seemed trigger defensively more than likely.

Lethal top 6, decent bottom 6 (we know it has issues) and we keep Bishop.

Trade Vasy for something that's cheap and fits on the back end preferably.

Edit: Also, we'd get even smaller by removing Boyle which would be a bad idea, but we could lose Boyle and bring up Erne if he's ready and it's even cheaper. There's options and Yzerman has studied this more in depth than this entire board and knows the rroute he's gonna take and who he wants here. It's definitely doable to keep Bishop WITH a competitive team.

also the asterisk by Sustr is whatever we decide to do with him as well. Can't see too many moves happening on the back end but then again, do they bring him back?

I like how you managed to jettison 9.6mil between Filppula and Garrison and took no money back, how much of the future did you mortgage doing that? Better hope Bishop doesn't let us down again.

You also traded Vasilevskiy and took no money back and we're very cheap to all your RFA'S except for Drouin. You are getting rid of these older players, Garrison, Filppula and Boyle yet we keep the older goaltender? Vasilevskiy's age fits better with our young forwards, they'll be hitting their prime when Vasilevskiy will be entering his and Bishop is on the decline, makes no sense on all fronts.

 

[tjs*]

Well its a matter of who is taken in the draft, who is traded at the deadline and/or the offseason.

I'll give you what I wouldn't mind seeing.

Drouin($5m)/Stamkos ($8.5m)/Kucherov ($4.7m)
Palat(4.25m)/Johnson($4.75m)/Point(661K)
Namestnikov($1.94m)/?/Callahan ($5.8m)
Brown ($1.25m)/Paquette($813K)/Dumont ($875k)

Hedman($7.88m)/Dotchin ($1.2m)
?/Stralman($4.5m)
Coburn ($3.7m)/Sustr (1.25m)*

Bishop($6m)
Back up ?

Dead space ($1.83m)

With that alone, we are sitting at $66,659,000 with needing to sign/trade for a 3C, 2nd pairing defenseman and a back up. I'm not sure how Wilcox is doing but I would imagine we can get a back up for 2m or less some way some how. That leaves around 6 million to acquire a 2nd pairing defenseman and a 3/4C. Now, if Boyle resigned for 3m, we'd have roughly 3m for a defenseman.

Honest mistake if I have missed something or overlooked a contract but those contracts I guessed on seemed reasonable enough. Drouin can be a tricky one. The biggest task is getting rid of Garrison, Filppula and Killorn without retaining from the first two. If we have to, play Koekkoek and we save from acquiring a defenseman, but problem is, we will still seemed trigger defensively more than likely.

Lethal top 6, decent bottom 6 (we know it has issues) and we keep Bishop.

Trade Vasy for something that's cheap and fits on the back end preferably.

Edit: Also, we'd get even smaller by removing Boyle which would be a bad idea, but we could lose Boyle and bring up Erne if he's ready and it's even cheaper. There's options and Yzerman has studied this more in depth than this entire board and knows the rroute he's gonna take and who he wants here. It's definitely doable to keep Bishop WITH a competitive team.

also the asterisk by Sustr is whatever we decide to do with him as well. Can't see too many moves happening on the back end but then again, do they bring him back?

1. Good luck getting all our RFAs signed that cheaply.
2. Then Bishop goes down like he does every year, only now we don't have a guy like Vasilevskiy backing him up.
3. In a couple more years when Kucherov's and Drouin's bridges are up and our cheap ELC players are needing raises, we lose at least one of our best forwards because we're overpaying a declining, injury-hobbled Bishop.

 

[Stammertime91]

I like how you managed to jettison 9.6mil between Filppula and Garrison and took no money back, how much of the future did you mortgage doing that? Better hope Bishop doesn't let us down again.

You also traded Vasilevskiy and took no money back and we're very cheap to all your RFA'S except for Drouin. You are getting rid of these older players, Garrison, Filppula and Boyle yet we keep the older goaltender? Vasilevskiy's age fits better with our young forwards, they'll be hitting their prime when Vasilevskiy will be entering his and Bishop is on the decline, makes no sense on all fronts.

Filppula has one year left at 5m. Garrison is under 5m, both are easily movable. We may retain a little on Garrison but no way should we retain on Filppula for one year left given his production. It's about 1m=10 points. A lot of teams that have the room would gladly take him for one year.

Yes because I did not propose a trade, I removed his 3.7m and didn't add because we may get a roster player that fills that defensive need of a projected 3m, a prospect or picks so it would've been a complete swing into the wind. If Palat wants more than Killorn then no thanks. Killorn should be top money between the two, get rid of the more expensive one. Johnson is another that can be traded of he demands too much. I don't think Johnson at 4.75m is crazy considering the better player Kucherov got 4.7m. I think they all like playing here and would take slightly less, seems to be that way with nearly every resigning lately. If he demands over 5.25m then I'd walk and go with Point in his place.

You cannot match a goalie and a forwards age. They do not work that way. Players primes have been trending towards a younger age, the prime used to be around 30 but it's become around 25-27 and goalies are at about 30. Considering Ben is 30 and the only one that is a "young" player is Drouin and he'd be entering his prime by the time we move on from Bishop. Can't really use skaters and goalies primes to pick who is a better goalie, that's completely irrelevant. Sure they'd all be the same age but it's not a summer camp get together, it's a hockey team meant to win. I imagine Montreal should move on from Price in 3 years, Minnesota from Dubnyk, etc.

1. Good luck getting all our RFAs signed that cheaply.
2. Then Bishop goes down like he does every year, only now we don't have a guy like Vasilevskiy backing him up.
3. In a couple more years when Kucherov's and Drouin's bridges are up and our cheap ELC players are needing raises, we lose at least one of our best forwards because we're overpaying a declining, injury-hobbled Bishop.

1. I used the Kucherov contract to compare Palat and Killorn to, see my reasoning above.

2. And? Price missed more games the last 4 seasons than Bishop has missed the last 4...goalies and players get injured all the time. If worrying about injuries was the case we wouldn't have resigned Bionic Stamkos. Sure you take it into consideration and that is my biggest worry going with him, but that's an if, same as Vasy panning out to be better than him is an if. Either route we take, we gamble. We go with Bishop and.he gets injured, Vasy makes strides and goes deep and we look dumb. We go with Vasy and he falls flat on his face while Bishop wins a cup, we look dumb. This is one of the hardest decisions a GM of the Lightning has ever had to make.

3. You're basing that off of your hypothetical. So I'll raise you one, we waste the bridge of Drouin, Kucherov and other ELCs waiting for Vasy to learn to not give up 3 goals every other game, learn better puck handling and rebound control. And if Dumont demands too much which his one goal shouldn't, we have Erne, Vermin, Gourde, Peca, etc.