Pre-Game Talk: 2014-15 Playoffs - ECQF: Tampa Bay Lightning vs. Detroit Red Wings

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Kramerica Industries

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Mar 21, 2013
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It'd definitely be better if Detroit didn't escape with a win in game 1. That's what hurts the most I think.

There's zero doubt about this. A home team down 2-0 putting together a complete effort to try and get back in the series? Happens all the time. By all rights, that should've been the case here, too, but the Lightning lost a game where they had a +32 shot difference at home and, well, this is the result of it.
 

CarpeNoctem

Chilling w The Chief
Oct 29, 2013
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1
In The Night
We had enough grade A chance to completely change the complexion of the game.

Stamkos is not auditioning for role of 4th line grinder. 4th line grinders know how to play with energy
. Stamkos looked like he didn't want to be there. Stamkos will NEVER drive offense unless NZ can be attacked with speed. NZ speed needs execution on breakouts and passing and decent D to F gapping. There was precious little of that last night. Stamkos is not the kind of player to carry the puck through the NZ, make a move at the O-blue line and enter the zone, setup the cycle or circle the net. He can explode with speed through the NZ, catch a pass and enter the O-Zone with speed though. That's the only type of driving offense you can expect from him. He's looked his best when he played to the abilities and strengths of his linemates(Gm 2). His linemates ARE grinders. Either he has to change or he has to be given a skilled puck possession guy who can create time for Stamkos to find the soft ice to be the trigger that he is. This person's name is Jo Drouin. Unfortunately, we won't see that in full effect until next season. It'd be nice if we got to see it in Game 4.

I did say 4th line grinder, if he's lucky:) That was kind of based off game 2 and me being generous. You are full right on all counts though. Detroit has prevented us, or perhaps we have not tried, to truly attack with speed and you can see that in every period.
 

Todd1a

Kucherov or prospect
Jun 19, 2014
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God damn mother ****ing fire Cooper jesus. Namestnikov is ****ing useless out there, and Paquette isn't much better.

Cooper does not adjust or adjusts to late I have been saying we need to get rid of cooper. In time maybe he learns and becomes a better coach but he sinks us till then!
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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It's not hard to "dominate" when the team you are matching up against had no execution of game plan, no desire to win individual battles, and two dysfunctional lines.

Tampa dominated both games with last change, DET just managed to steal one of those games. Didn't see anyone saying how badly Babcock was dominated by Cooper in those games.

We tend to do well with last change. But we do incredibly poorly without it. Hard not to call it a pattern.

There are other factors at play, sure, but an absolute refusal to make adjustments when things are clearly going poorly doesn't really help matters.
 

chasespace

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Jul 19, 2010
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Cooper does not adjust or adjusts to late I have been saying we need to get rid of cooper. In time maybe he learns and becomes a better coach but he sinks us till then!

I wouldn't get rid of him if we get knocked out in this first round. Last year I'm willing to forgive since we were missing our starting goalie, Palat was coming back off an injury as was Stamkos. That being said, with a healthier lineup this year he's making some of the same mistakes, which is worrying.

If it's the same story next year(first round exit against a lower seeded team and the coach is refusing to change the lineup) then by all means, he needs to be reviewed at that point. As for now, I would chalk it up to growing pains.
 

DFC

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I wouldn't get rid of him if we get knocked out in this first round. Last year I'm willing to forgive since we were missing our starting goalie, Palat was coming back off an injury as was Stamkos. That being said, with a healthier lineup this year he's making some of the same mistakes, which is worrying.

If it's the same story next year(first round exit against a lower seeded team and the coach is refusing to change the lineup) then by all means, he needs to be reviewed at that point. As for now, I would chalk it up to growing pains.

I'm in this boat too, to be clear. I don't want to get rid of Cooper, regardless. But it's hard not to be a little bit concerned/suspicious (and it's only suspicion right now) that he's contributing to a particular problem. Last night just sort highlighted the idea that when opposing coaches adjust to us, which is easier for them on the road, it might be giving us issues. The difference between our home and road record says something is going on. Maybe it's not Coop, but I have a hard time believing we simply "don't try" on the road.
 

CupsOverCash

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Jun 16, 2009
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While I in no way support the way they played last night. I think they played very poorly. However I also think they could have won the game. They had some unlucky bounces. The game is one of inches. Had a few bounces gone our way I think we win the game. Then were all talking about Montreal in the next series. A few shots hit the post. TJ wiffed on a pass that was a shot at the open net.

The problem is that were weren't winning the battles we needed to win. We did it in the first two games. The first game was won by the goaltenders. Mrazek played great in two of the three games so far. Bishop has only played well in one. So that is also a difference maker. If we can get on the scoreboard early it's hard to stop our team because we get confident quick.

Detroit did a great job in frustrating us. If we can just play our game and win battles we won't be stopped. They can't get frustrated. Especially after the last game. We need to come out on fire next game. But poised.

And about Stamkos. A lot of people are blaming him. He's not playing with guys who really fit his game. Don't get me wrong I really like Callahan and Killorn but they aren't fit for a run and gun line. That line plays a lot more grind than it does playmaking offense. We need Drouin to play with Stamkos and we need somebody else who can score and make plays with them too. Killorn and Callahan are not those kind of players. I wouldn't mind making some kind of trade that would get us another guy who could play with Stamkos but that isn't an easy thing to do.
 

CarpeNoctem

Chilling w The Chief
Oct 29, 2013
7,203
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While I in no way support the way they played last night. I think they played very poorly. However I also think they could have won the game. They had some unlucky bounces. The game is one of inches. Had a few bounces gone our way I think we win the game. Then were all talking about Montreal in the next series. A few shots hit the post. TJ wiffed on a pass that was a shot at the open net.

The problem is that were weren't winning the battles we needed to win. We did it in the first two games. The first game was won by the goaltenders. Mrazek played great in two of the three games so far. Bishop has only played well in one. So that is also a difference maker. If we can get on the scoreboard early it's hard to stop our team because we get confident quick.

Detroit did a great job in frustrating us. If we can just play our game and win battles we won't be stopped. They can't get frustrated. Especially after the last game. We need to come out on fire next game. But poised.

And about Stamkos. A lot of people are blaming him. He's not playing with guys who really fit his game. Don't get me wrong I really like Callahan and Killorn but they aren't fit for a run and gun line. That line plays a lot more grind than it does playmaking offense. We need Drouin to play with Stamkos and we need somebody else who can score and make plays with them too. Killorn and Callahan are not those kind of players. I wouldn't mind making some kind of trade that would get us another guy who could play with Stamkos but that isn't an easy thing to do.

I agree fully on the bolded part. Totally agree.
 

Leonardo87

New York Rangers, Anaheim Ducks, and TMNT fan.
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Dec 8, 2013
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While I in no way support the way they played last night. I think they played very poorly. However I also think they could have won the game. They had some unlucky bounces. The game is one of inches. Had a few bounces gone our way I think we win the game. Then were all talking about Montreal in the next series. A few shots hit the post. TJ wiffed on a pass that was a shot at the open net.

The problem is that were weren't winning the battles we needed to win. We did it in the first two games. The first game was won by the goaltenders. Mrazek played great in two of the three games so far. Bishop has only played well in one. So that is also a difference maker. If we can get on the scoreboard early it's hard to stop our team because we get confident quick.

Detroit did a great job in frustrating us. If we can just play our game and win battles we won't be stopped. They can't get frustrated. Especially after the last game. We need to come out on fire next game. But poised.

And about Stamkos. A lot of people are blaming him. He's not playing with guys who really fit his game. Don't get me wrong I really like Callahan and Killorn but they aren't fit for a run and gun line. That line plays a lot more grind than it does playmaking offense. We need Drouin to play with Stamkos and we need somebody else who can score and make plays with them too. Killorn and Callahan are not those kind of players. I wouldn't mind making some kind of trade that would get us another guy who could play with Stamkos but that isn't an easy thing to do.

Need a mix of both, the line of Drouin - Stamkos - Callahan had a nice balance of players. You underrate Callahan who is good at making plays, he is no elite playmaker but he makes up for it by winning those puck battles on the boards and can crash the net and get to those rebounds Stamkos shoots on goal.

Cally was winning board battles last night, Stamkos was no where to be found to accept a pass or once a play started he took a dumb penalty. Believe both of his penalties were in the offensive zone.

Stamkos is playing like crap, I grow tired of Stamkos' struggles being blamed on lack of chemisty with his linemates. Stamkos had nearly every single player on that line. It's more like a lack of energy or lack of motivation from him that I see. Killorn is playing above his head on the top line, he has been good in this series, and that top line production has really come from the efforts of him and Callahan with Stamkos being a passenger.

Now if Drouin is not playing, then go with KFC and TKO and give Stamkos the leftovers to figure things out and if he does not can just be a decoy for the other teams top D.
 
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2020 Cup Champions

Formerly Sila v Kucherove
Nov 26, 2013
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Well, Minnesota shut St. Louis out 3-0 two nights ago and now they're down 6-1. Anything can happen, ladies and gentlemen.
 

CarpeNoctem

Chilling w The Chief
Oct 29, 2013
7,203
1
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Well, Minnesota shut St. Louis out 3-0 two nights ago and now they're down 6-1. Anything can happen, ladies and gentlemen.

Hitchcock must've put the fear of God into those players. Looked entirely like a different team but Tarasenko appears to have hurt his knee and not returned. If we play half as well as the Blues played tonight, we'll win tomorrow.
 
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dechire

TBL Stanley Cup Champs 2020 2021
Jul 8, 2014
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And about Stamkos. A lot of people are blaming him. He's not playing with guys who really fit his game. Don't get me wrong I really like Callahan and Killorn but they aren't fit for a run and gun line. That line plays a lot more grind than it does playmaking offense. We need Drouin to play with Stamkos and we need somebody else who can score and make plays with them too. Killorn and Callahan are not those kind of players. I wouldn't mind making some kind of trade that would get us another guy who could play with Stamkos but that isn't an easy thing to do.

I disagree. Stamkos and Seguin are pretty similar players. Seguin has excelled by playing with Benn who is an elite version of Callahan. A power forward on a sniper's line can be a huge asset because they can clear a lot of space. Blaming Stamkos' lack of production on his wingers is just making excuses. Elite players should perform regardless of their linemates. Of course better linemates would help him but they are not the reason that he's been underperforming and changing the team to try to spark him won't accomplish anything because he is the problem.
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
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I disagree. Stamkos and Seguin are pretty similar players. Seguin has excelled by playing with Benn who is an elite version of Callahan. A power forward on a sniper's line can be a huge asset because they can clear a lot of space. Blaming Stamkos' lack of production on his wingers is just making excuses. Elite players should perform regardless of their linemates. Of course better linemates would help him but they are not the reason that he's been underperforming and changing the team to try to spark him won't accomplish anything because he is the problem.

I've always said this and will stick by it, linemates are such a stupid excuse and a huge cop-out. Remember his 60 goal season? MSL was on a down year, injured and only assisted on a 3rd of his goals, he scored regardless of linemates, it's not like we're asking him to do something he's never done before.

Maybe it's the captaincy because he sure can't perform and be a leader at the same time it seems.
 

ganiseri

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Feb 3, 2014
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Maybe it's the captaincy because he sure can't perform and be a leader at the same time it seems.

I hope Boyle or Cally was out captain, they always play with big passion and those are captain type of players. That would ease stamkos burden and he could play more "freely" but its too late to change that.

I hate that coop doenst shake up the lines :shakehead
but i hope he proves me wrong
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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I've always said this and will stick by it, linemates are such a stupid excuse and a huge cop-out. Remember his 60 goal season? MSL was on a down year, injured and only assisted on a 3rd of his goals, he scored regardless of linemates, it's not like we're asking him to do something he's never done before.

Maybe it's the captaincy because he sure can't perform and be a leader at the same time it seems.

100%. If Stamkos was set to make 6 x 5.5 million, we could let linemates be an excuse. Stamkos is supposed to be a "top 3 player in the NHL", or at the least a top 3 center - he doesn't get to use the linemate argument.
 

CKJohn

Registered User
Apr 23, 2007
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5
I don't understand the logic behind some of these posts. The series is at 2-1 due in part to the efforts of both teams.

Say for example, the goal posts. Almost a goal right? Well, not really. What I'm trying to say is that a good goalie can block enough of the net to force a shooter put the puck away from him to the outside which can not possibly go in. Hitting the post causes all of our hearts to jump one way or another but as close as it is, it doesn't go in.

How about the passing issues the lightning are having? Same could be said about the Wings in game 1. I'm sure part of it is the team, but I'd be willing to bet that its more the play of the other team that's forcing plays which results in turnovers.

Overall, right now the difference in this series is Game 1. Mrazek stole that game (holy crap a wings goalie did that?!?!). Had he not, Tampa may well be up 2-1
 

Volodya Krutov

Lost Cosmonaut
Jan 18, 2012
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People can see the difference between passing issues and the other team forcing turnovers. Last game it was combination of both, period. As for hitting posts and missing open nets it always been easier to be "rational" when you're sitting at the polar opposite of the spectrum.
 

The Gongshow

Fire JBB
Jul 17, 2014
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I hope Boyle or Cally was out captain, they always play with big passion and those are captain type of players.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Boyle as captain, he basically has been. He's more then a 4th liner in my opinion, he's our #1 PK'er and he's on the ice in tough situations and face-offs. I'm not saying he should put on the 1st line but he always brings passion and rarely has had a bad game for us. He's been pretty beast mode in the playoffs unlike Stamkos (minus game 2) Stamkos is still learning on how to be a captain some players can do that at a young age (Toews, Crosby) some need a few years. We shall see.

Heres hoping both Stamkos and Boyle have an awesome game tonight.
 

DFC

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I think the C itself is overrated. The room belongs to whoever owns the room.
 

The Gongshow

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Jul 17, 2014
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I think the C itself is overrated. The room belongs to whoever owns the room.

I agree with this, I also think the C has put too much pressure on Stamkos, in his mind he feels like he has to do so much more when really we just need him to shoot the darn puck.
 

CarpeNoctem

Chilling w The Chief
Oct 29, 2013
7,203
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I agree with this, I also think the C has put too much pressure on Stamkos, in his mind he feels like he has to do so much more when really we just need him to shoot the darn puck.

That's DEFINITELY true. I think it weighs on him mentally as well, because it's twice as hard to criticize other guys if you're in a slump yourself.
 
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