GDT: 2013 Caps Trade Deadline Thread II (Forsberg for Erat & Latta)

[BrooklynCapsFan]

To me a lot of this comes down to how good will Forsberg be, and when will he hit that level. Certainly seems like an excellent young player but there are more of those who didnt make it, or didnt make any significant impact, than those who were all-stars. Seems to me a lot of people are penciling him in for all-star games and using that to judge this trade.

Trade made the Caps better this season for sure. It's possible Erat will be a better NHL player for several more seasons, which they will pay for with the higher salary. Forsberg could have a good NHL career and never be quite the player Erat is.

Im not a huge fan of the trade but how would this be viewed if the Caps were fighting more for a top seed than a playoff spot? In reality its not really much different. Maybe I think this team is a little better than most do (which is odd because it usually the other way around) but they should be in the playoffs, and from there who knows.

Just makes me think of the biggest robbery trade of all time, Oates for Ouellet, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....even with Oates doing squadoosh in Philly, trade is pretty mush a wash

Trading Oates got us Alex Semin. I wouldn't call that a wash.

 

[Langway]

From what I heard, this draft, you needed to pick top 8, or just make the playoffs and give up on the draft (as the prospects outside of the cream were roster filler types at best, not impressive at all).

That would be historically bad and seems unlikely to be accurate. There's certainly a drop-off but that's very likely an overly conservative assessment.

I don't think I'll ever really like this deal either. Maybe in hindsight I will but there's nothing that's come out since that's made this appear to be any less impulsive or desperate. Dealing more futures to fill out a top six spot due to the likely eventual loss of a veteran also acquired for futures isn't sustainable. They're not so brilliant at drafting to move from throwing away second rounders for rentals to throwing away fairly well-regarded prospects for short-term top six gain. They've now given up a first rounder, Eakin, a second rounder and another first round prospect to build what is currently a pretty average second line all-in-all. How about actually building sustainable, versatile secondary scoring?

They appear to be shying away from the UFA market. While that's less of a big deal given fewer quality players available and the cap going down next year, limiting another route to building up organizational depth is a bad idea.

 

[Mothra]

Trading Oates got us Alex Semin. I wouldn't call that a wash.

wasnt there some other maneuvering? Flyers finished in the top 10 im sure and Semin was taken what...12-13? I remember have the three 1sts and talk of using them all to get Nash, which prompted cbus to move up

in any case....seem to remember some other move(s)

EDIT: from wikipedia, FWIW.....so yea, a wash

March 19, 2002: Washington Capitals traded C Adam Oates to Philadelphia Flyers for G Maxime Ouellet and Philadelphia's first, second and third-round picks in the 2002 Entry Draft (Martin Vagner, Maxime Daigneault and Derek Krestanovich).

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

wasnt there some other maneuvering? Flyers finished in the top 10 im sure and Semin was taken what...12-13? I remember have the three 1sts and talk of using them all to get Nash, which prompted cbus to move up

in any case....seem to remember some other move(s)

We traded Philly's first + our second for Dallas' first to draft Semin.

Not a wash at all.

 

[Mothra]

We traded Philly's first + our second for Dallas' first to draft Semin.

Not a wash at all.

Well you made it sound like they took Semin with the pick from the Oates trade, which they did not. Agreed not a total wash but hardly the thievery most believed it was...and apparently still do. One piece of the trade (the 1st) was moved for a player who became an asset 5 years later....Had the Flyers made any noise at all and Oates been a factor (if i recall they totally misused him, especially on the PP) this would be even more in question. In the end Flyers went for it and didnt get there, and didnt end up missing much in terms of what they gave up. Not sure how the Caps moving pieces of the trade makes it look much different from Flyers side

 

[Marshall]

It was a steal. That the Caps screwed up the picks isn't relevant to the value of the deal as it was initially made.

 

[Mothra]

It was a steal. That the Caps screwed up the picks isn't relevant to the value of the deal as it was initially made.

I guess the point im trying to make is...in the end it had little, if any, impact on the Flyers....and that prospects, even top ones like FF and MO often dont end up being the top end guys it they are expected to be

 

[Ajax1995]

we will see how it works out. erat has one game. lets see if he scores 25 next season or 12. lets see if forsberg ever scores 30.

it takes time.

I'm not saying Forsberg will become a low end 1st line player. I am saying that regardless of who the players are a low end legit 1st liner > 2nd liner + 4th liner IMO.

 

[Ajax1995]

By any reasonable metric Erat is a 1st line player, though (granted, a mid/low-end one) so isn't that where we are?

Erat is a very good player.

Erat is a good player, without a doubt. But IMO no he is not a 1st line player. There are a lot fewer legit 1st line players in this league than there are players playing on 1st lines and simply leading a team in scoring does not make one a 1st line player IMO.

 

[txpd]

I'm not saying Forsberg will become a low end 1st line player. I am saying that regardless of who the players are a low end legit 1st liner > 2nd liner + 4th liner IMO.

time will tell. erat might score one goal as a capital but it wins a playoff series.

maybe i dont know my hockey anymore. i am told i am nuts for saying the caps wouldnt trade backstrom for john tavares. maybe forsberg is going to be an 80pt player. maybe erat and latta wont pan out.

mcphee traded for zubrus and linden and that killed a good team. he's capable of it.
but as a rule he wins trades. if this is a miss its probably a narrow one.

 

[brs03]

Erat is a good player, without a doubt. But IMO no he is not a 1st line player. There are a lot fewer legit 1st line players in this league than there are players playing on 1st lines and simply leading a team in scoring does not make one a 1st line player IMO.

It's semantics, but I get what you're saying. If Forsberg becomes a tier or half-tier above what Erat is, that's something.

 

[BobRouse]

Erat is a good player, without a doubt. But IMO no he is not a 1st line player. There are a lot fewer legit 1st line players in this league than there are players playing on 1st lines and simply leading a team in scoring does not make one a 1st line player IMO.

I guess it depends on what your standards are for first line players.

Erat is a good two way consistent 20+40 guy or thereabouts. At LW thats pretty good.

I'd like to take a look at all the top line LWs in the game right now and compare them. It would be interesting.

And lets not forget he played in Nashville where they do play a restrictive defensive trapping game.

 

[RandyHolt]

I think its difficult to grade players using their line status.

Jurcina and SMo were our top pair dmen at one point. When there are not enough "top pair" dmen for every team to have 2, top pair dmen by definition must be dumbed down IMO.

Knuble was a top line player here much of his time here, and decent stats to go with it.

There has to be a better way to grade players. Where does he fit on an average team, or is it on a cup winning team - the perfect lineup? Big difference there.

Put players into their category - scoring winger - and then grade them 1 to 10.

Erat is ____

7.5

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

http://predlines.com/2013/04/12/fil...ards-debut-with-nashville-predators-imminent/

Filip Forsberg: Swedish Forward’s Debut With Nashville Predators Imminent

Forsberg is expected to arrive in Nashville tomorrow and will have his first skate with the team on Sunday. Poile told Josh Cooper of the Tennessean that he expected the young Swede to make his NHL debut on Monday against the Vancouver Canucks.

 

[BobbyCarpenter]

http://predlines.com/2013/04/12/fil...ards-debut-with-nashville-predators-imminent/

At quick glance, I thought the end of the abbreviated link read "trolls imminent". lol

 

[Chimaera]

I hope he does well.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him come and put in some goals.

 

[Stewie G]

I've started popping the popcorn already. If the guy does anything more than fall down and defecate himself on his first shift (and heck maybe even if he does) people are going to flip out.

 

[DanTHEMan71]

I hope he does well.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him come and put in some goals.

I hope he does. I actually hope he scores in his debut so McPhee looks like an idiot. I still don't like the trade. We didn't need Erat.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I couldn't care less what Forsberg does if it's not for the Caps.

 

[BobRouse]

I hope he does. I actually hope he scores in his debut so McPhee looks like an idiot. I still don't like the trade. We didn't need Erat.

So you are saying Erat is not necessary?

Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No! But I do it anyway, cause it's sterile and I like the taste.

 

[BobbyCarpenter]

I couldn't care less what Forsberg does if it's not for the Caps.

Pretty much this.

 

[marcel snapshot]

I hope he does. I actually hope he scores in his debut so McPhee looks like an idiot. I still don't like the trade. We didn't need Erat.

I thought last night's game underscored the reasons why the trade was a good idea -short of top 6 forward (Volpatti?) and sub-par team D associated with shortage of responsible 2-way players that can also generate offense.

 

[ChibiPooky]

On the subject of things we do care about, Erat took line rushes with the second line today (although Volpatti also took a few) and Oates thinks he is likely to play tomorrow.

 

[kicksavedave]

I've started popping the popcorn already. If the guy does anything more than fall down and defecate himself on his first shift (and heck maybe even if he does) people are going to flip out.

I literally LOL'ed.

 

[Calicaps]

I couldn't care less what Forsberg does if it's not for the Caps.

This.