18/19 MGMT thread VIII

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Foundational Player

Benning the Incompetent
Mar 27, 2008
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Just a heads up Jim son of Elmer will be on TSN 1040 this morning with Halford and Brough.

I am assuming slide shows won't be used as this interview will be conducted on the radio.
 

Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
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So far:

- want to keep Edler, important mentor for Pettersson
- not considering a Edler trade and then re-sign in off-season
- will get a top 6 forward or top 4 D even if they draft in the 14-16 range
- not concerned to bring in Hughes early if that makes him eligbile for the expansion draft
- they wont have any issue protecting the D they want to keep (even with Hughes)
- still believes in Juolevi
- like Sautner and Brisobois
- want Gaudette to play a lot, hence he is in Utica
- not written off Goldobin yet, he will likely play tomorrow
 
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Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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On Edler talks-

Dialogue with agent and Alex, talking to them about his intentions, he's made it clear he'd like to stay, was real good for us last year and this year, continue to talk to them and figure something out, made it clear to him we want to keep him, with where we're at he's our best D, leader in our room, mentor to Petey, sets the culture, important guy for development of young guys, doesn't think a trade and re-sign is possible,

On Quinn Hughes-

Will try to sign Quinn once he and his family decides to turn pro ie likely end of this season, big step from college to NHL, skating and puck handling is elite, getting accustomed to nhl size and strength, defensively battling guys 1 on 1 we won't know until he gets in here and plays games, such a good skater and puck handler we think he can make the adjustments

On Seattle Expansion-

We don't have a worry on defense for expansion protection, not worried about him playing too many games

On what area of roster needs most improvement-

We could use another scorer, another difference maker, that can shoot the puck, a top 6 forward, with quinn coming on the back end and I still really like Olli Juolevi we could add 1 more defenceman. We need another top 6 player and offensive defender

On UFA and going hard after a big name-

Pro scout meetings next week, put a list together of all UFA's positionally etc

On young D being hard to get -

Yeah that's why we need to draft and develop our own. Drafts gonna be deep enough this year where we're gonna get a real good player, top 6 you can get a guy that steps in next year, 7 through 16-17 we'll get a player we really like be it forward or top 4 D.

Some guys you want to see in the lineup sooner than later-

Ashton Sautner, steady, good skater, physical, ready to play NHL games
Chatfield - competitive, in the mold of Tanev, gets back, transitions puck up ice
Brisebois- we've had injuries, he's played 22-24 mins a night down there, can really skate and is mobile and we like his 2 way game
we got guys we feel good about
Woo is having a real good year, 41 points in 42 games, he plays hard, excited about him

On MacEwan getting a look-

Drives their team, physical, takes puck to net, we really like him, we talked about if we had another injury about getting him up and getting a look at him

Do you have too many C's now with Petey's breakout, is it fair to speculate a trade is coming -

You guys can speculate, Gaudette has been good with us, we wanted to get him down to get him more ice time, 16-18 mins a night on first PP, wanted to develop offensive side of game, wasn't comfortable yet up in NHL with time and space, when he's ready we'll make room for him, no consideration on flipping him over to the wing, he's always played C

On Goldobin falling through cracks -

This is development, when he has the puck on his stick hes one of our most skilled players, when he doesn't he has a lot to work on, im not ready to give up on him yet, has a chance to be a real good player, part of development, should be in lineup tomorrow night, 31 games left so it's up to Goldy, if he rounds out the rest of his game ie winning puck battles and hunting pucks down then he's got a future with us. Continue to work with him and hope he gets better, high ceiling.

On EP's personality with media being an issue-

No. he's a really intense young man, he wants to be the best, to do the things hes' done is fantastic, still things he needs to learn hes a young kid still, he's learning the language, he works with our PR people to not do the death stare lol, part of his intensity

Most impressive part of EP-

Given the whole team confidence, for one player to make such a difference gives everyone in the room confidence, when he has the puck on his stick he can make one play or one shot that can make a difference, makes everyone better.

On surrounding EP with the right players -

That's my job, we're gonna draft well, we're gonna develop well, we've tried to surround them with high character guys who hold them accountable, teach them, mentor them, the Beagles the Roussels, when things are going well we need veteran leadership to keep them in check and give em a kick in the ass when it's not, teaching em how to be pros and how to win etc

On how most trades come about -

Over the course of last couple weeks I talk to every GM in the league and see what's going no, with where we're at we have the draft in Vancouver I'm not trading any of our picks, if we can make hockey trades I'll look at those, wanna hold onto our bluechip prospects, if we feel somethings there depending on the return we might look at it, usually you can talk about 40 different trades/scenarios and maybe at end of day maybe you do 1 trade, it's hard with where teams are cap wise to make hockey trades, first question we get is all our young players and I'm not doing that

On what market will be like -

We're seeing trades getting done earlier than in past years ie Muzzin, Brassard. every year is a different year in regards to deadline

Fin
 

Peter10

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Dec 7, 2003
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That was a tough listen. Yeah we make a lot of fun of him for his "you know"s but jeez, he took it to another level today. That felt like a hammer in the brain.
 
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TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
23,170
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:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yeah, going to be really tough protecting SO MANY GOOD D worth protecting in the upcoming expansion draft.

Yeah, such a tone deaf comment. It's more like: "Please take these crappy defensemen off our team."

They continue to just not address the fact they've built like the worst blue line in history.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Even if it is acknowledged that the Canucks have progressed this year, should Jim Benning be credited with that progress? You have to look at reasonable baselines. The NHL rewards terrible teams with high draft picks. Moreover, the system creates a demand for terrible teams to unload expiring contract for picks. The system literally results in progress for terrible teams. So why are we crediting Jim Benning with this progress? How has he out performed the reasonable baseline?

terrible teams can trade expiring contracts for picks. The system



Who cares what the media, or Reddit or Canucks.com thinks? Who even cares what HF thinks? If you can't make a cogent argument that Benning is an average GM, then he isn't. You reference the draft picks he has made as reasons why he isn't a terrible GM (even going has far as to cite a player that was drafted less than a year ago and hasn't even play an NHL game...), but yet even this fails to take into consideration any baseline - see Melvin's potato test.

Yes ,he has improved the team..Most notably by targeting EP in the draft...A lot of posters are moaning about that we should have taken Tkachuk instead of OJ..What if we had taken Cody glass instead of EP.?..JB has improved the team by hiring a great coach in Green..also making Brackett the head of DOS...He has identified the right people for the job...When this happens positive results will happen.

Even when you go to the main boards ,other posters from different fanbases are very complimentary on where this team is going..On HF Van, any positive posts (about anything) are immediately pounced on, and turned into a negative...It does not have to be a cheerleader site, but come on..

The baseline for Jim Benning are going to the results...Not interested in Melvins Potato results (this is the poster that predicted the Canucks would go winless in October,and the GM fired mid January)...The results are, we are a game above .500,and are in the group of teams in the hunt for a wild card spot...The team is young, fun to watch.,and have a Calder favourite leading the way...For a team that was projected bottom 3....this is progress..and progress is results.
 

Peter10

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Yes ,he has improved the team..Most notably by targeting EP in the draft...A lot of posters are moaning about that we should have taken Tkachuk instead of OJ..What if we had taken Cody glass instead of EP.?..JB has improved the team by hiring a great coach in Green..also making Brackett the head of DOS...He has identified the right people for the job...When this happens positive results will happen.

Even when you go to the main boards ,other posters from different fanbases are very complimentary on where this team is going..On HF Van, any positive posts (about anything) are immediately pounced on, and turned into a negative...It does not have to be a cheerleader site, but come on..

The baseline for Jim Benning are going to the results...Not interested in Melvins Potato results (this is the poster that predicted the Canucks would go winless in October,and the GM fired mid January)...The results are, we are a game above .500,and are in the group of teams in the hunt for a wild card spot...The team is young, fun to watch.,and have a Calder favourite leading the way...For a team that was projected bottom 3....this is progress..and progress is results.

So pretty much your only argument is that Benning got lucky with the Pettersson draft? By that Chiarelli must be a great GM for identifying Connor McDavid. Finding Pettersson was no witchcraft or some crazy insight of drafting a player no one else had on the radar. There were several groups in that draft, the top 2 with Patrick and Hischier, the 2nd top 2 with Heiskanen and Makar and then a bunch of others which included Glass, Pettersson, Valardi and maybe 1-2 more. The groups were overlapping depending on the teams, Colorado probably had Makar at 1 as likely did the Canucks, there were reports a team had Heiskanen at #1, several teams prefered Glass over Pettersson, the Rangers likely had Pettersson very high. This is very different from Juolevi over Tkachuck, that was purely driven by position and not because Juolevi was considered the better player. This is why the move is criticized as a reach while Pettersson is not.

Heck, even I drafted Pettersson in my fantasy league (at 4 and that was before the Canucks actually drafted him) and I m far from being a prospect expert. I also took Tkachuk and Keller over Juolevi and I would consider myself as completly incompetent for an NHL GM job. Yet that alone trumps Bennings greatest deeds as a GM which according to you absolves every thing else he has done. You proclaim him a decent GM yet any drunk idiot from the street could have done a similar job with some luck.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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[QUOTE="Peter10, post: 155813053, member: 14562"]So pretty much your only argument is that Benning got lucky with the Pettersson draft?



Stopped reading after the first line.
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
18,459
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Canuck Nation
Yes ,he has improved the team..Most notably by targeting EP in the draft...A lot of posters are moaning about that we should have taken Tkachuk instead of OJ..What if we had taken Cody glass instead of EP.?..JB has improved the team by hiring a great coach in Green..also making Brackett the head of DOS...He has identified the right people for the job...When this happens positive results will happen.

Even when you go to the main boards ,other posters from different fanbases are very complimentary on where this team is going..On HF Van, any positive posts (about anything) are immediately pounced on, and turned into a negative...It does not have to be a cheerleader site, but come on..

The baseline for Jim Benning are going to the results...Not interested in Melvins Potato results (this is the poster that predicted the Canucks would go winless in October,and the GM fired mid January)...The results are, we are a game above .500,and are in the group of teams in the hunt for a wild card spot...The team is young, fun to watch.,and have a Calder favourite leading the way...For a team that was projected bottom 3....this is progress..and progress is results.
What a complete load of crap. Oh, this guy thought this, that guy thought that, people on the main boards think the other thing...ad hominem, ad hominem, appeal to popularity.

Baseline is results, is it? Where is the team relative to where it's been in previous years? How are those point totals looking? Oh, Benning finally fluked his way into a good player with a top 5 pick? That's your standard, is it? Wow. You give Benning the highest draft picks the Canucks have had since the Sedin twins and eventually he comes away with a star. No shit. Literally any gm can do that. That's kind of what you're supposed to do when you pick that high. You probably think it's normal to come away with the Virtanens and Juolevis of the world when you're picking that high but the standards really are that you're supposed to get the really good prospects in that range. It's kinda the whole point of why the shitty teams pick highest in the draft; to give them the pieces they need to get better. Yeah, Benning put together a team bad enough to bottom out in the standings and get top five draft picks. That's his big contribution. For all you piss and moan about Gillis leaving Benning with a bunch of NTCs to move out, at least those contracts were to good players other teams might actually want. The next guy here's going to inherit guys like Sutter, Eriksson and Beagle on contracts with NTCs. Just a tad different.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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What a complete load of crap. Oh, this guy thought this, that guy thought that, people on the main boards think the other thing...ad hominem, ad hominem, appeal to popularity.

Baseline is results, is it? Where is the team relative to where it's been in previous years? How are those point totals looking? Oh, Benning finally fluked his way into a good player with a top 5 pick? That's your standard, is it? Wow. You give Benning the highest draft picks the Canucks have had since the Sedin twins and eventually he comes away with a star. No ****. Literally any gm can do that. That's kind of what you're supposed to do when you pick that high. You probably think it's normal to come away with the Virtanens and Juolevis of the world when you're picking that high but the standards really are that you're supposed to get the really good prospects in that range. It's kinda the whole point of why the ****ty teams pick highest in the draft; to give them the pieces they need to get better. Yeah, Benning put together a team bad enough to bottom out in the standings and get top five draft picks. That's his big contribution. For all you piss and moan about Gillis leaving Benning with a bunch of NTCs to move out, at least those contracts were to good players other teams might actually want. The next guy here's going to inherit guys like Sutter, Eriksson and Beagle on contracts with NTCs. Just a tad different.
-Benning has not picked any higher than 5th..there's no guarantee there is going to be franchise player there..We have never won the lottery
-I would say most posters had Vilardi or Glass as the 2017 pick (myself included)...Canucks targeted EP from the outset, and were spot on
-Erikkson is an anchor contract (most teams have one)..Sutters LNTC kicks in next year..Beagle is only being paid $3m (600K over the league average)..and has a modified NTC (he can be traded)....We have cap space (6th most in the league I believe)
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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I just find the idea of measuring "results" silly, because they're on pace for the same point total that got Gillis and Tortorella fired. Let that sink in, people are celebrating an 83 point pace.....should look at some threads from 2014 when they finished with 83 points.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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I just find the idea of measuring "results" silly, because they're on pace for the same point total that got Gillis and Tortorella fired. Let that sink in, people are celebrating an 83 point pace.....should look at some threads from 2014 when they finished with 83 points.
Torts and Gillis teams were expected to win rounds in the playoffs. ..This is a consensus bottom 5 rebuilding team, that wasn't supposed to be in any conversation about playoffs at this point in the season.

Thats the difference.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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They were in the organization yes..does not mean that they were going to get promoted to the positions that they eventually got..
OK. It doesn't mean they wouldn't have. It was pretty obvious when they signed Green to coach Utica, that it was succession planning, but whatever helps you promote Benning's ability.

It's funny that promoting people within the organization is a good thing when it's executives or scouts, but when Gillis did it with players it was "inheriting an elite core". Just makes me chuckle.

I'd like to follow up another point you continually trot out about Beagle being signed to a deal barely over the league average.....would you consider him an average NHL forward? And I imagine you do...could you provide some data?
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
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Torts and Gillis teams were expected to win rounds in the playoffs. ..This is a consensus bottom 5 rebuilding team, that wasn't supposed to be in any conversation about playoffs at this point in the season.

Thats the difference.
No the difference is the bar for playoffs is significantly lower in 2019 than it was in 2014, that's the only think keeping them in the "playoffs" conversation. Interesting to note that 14' team had a 9 point gap at the same stage in the season to this current rendition.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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No the difference is the bar for playoffs is significantly lower in 2019 than it was in 2014, that's the only think keeping them in the "playoffs" conversation. Interesting to note that 14' team had a 9 point gap at the same stage in the season to this current rendition.
Again,...this was a rebuilding consensus bottom 5 team..They went 1-13-0 due to injuries, schedule...Outside of that, they have been on a playoff pace.
 
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