18/19 MGMT thread VIII

[member 290103]

Again,...this was a rebuilding consensus bottom 5 team..They went 1-13-0 due to injuries, schedule...Outside of that, they have been on a playoff pace.

..........and yet as fantastic as this season has been labelled....they are matching the same pace as their two dismal prior seasons. The team is nowhere close to contending now or in the next few years. The team needs to keep acquiring younger assets, not be fixated on how to function if they can't keep a 33 year old defenseman who, on a good team, would be a 3/4 type.

 

[Peter10]

-Benning has not picked any higher than 5th..there's no guarantee there is going to be franchise player there..We have never won the lottery

So that should excuse him of everything? "Oh you never won the lottery? Please go on and be a terrible GM until you finally get that much deserved #1" It might sound strange to you but other teams have drafted top players outside #1 too.

-I would say most posters had Vilardi or Glass as the 2017 pick (myself included)...Canucks targeted EP from the outset, and were spot on

Their top target was Makar. Had they gotten him, this team is dead last and Benning close to be fired. Thank Colorado for that-

-Erikkson is an anchor contract (most teams have one)..Sutters LNTC kicks in next year.

Just because other teams have been stupid doesnt make the Eriksson contract less stupid. Mind you, Benning went after Lucic first - in that regard Eriksson is a blessing in disguise.

Beagle is only being paid $3m (600K over the league average)..and has a modified NTC (he can be traded)....We have cap space (6th most in the league I believe)

Fourth liner usually dont bet paid more than the league average. There are 12 fwds playing, the average forward is number 6.5 in otherwords a border line 2nd liner. Essentially you are saying Beagle gets paid like a bottom end 2nd liner while playing 4c is ok.

 

[Peter10]

Again,...this was a rebuilding consensus bottom 5 team..They went 1-13-0 due to injuries, schedule...Outside of that, they have been on a playoff pace.

They went 1-13-0 because its a terribly constructed team that hit a tough streak. Just like they had a hot streak in december when they played decent and were supported by a red hot Markström. They are just a little losing streak away from bottom 5.

 

[Peter10]

Do you ever have anything to say discussing actual hockey.?..Every one of your posts is maximum 2 sentences of grade 3 snark...I'm assuming you're an adult..You can do better than that.

You whitewash 4 years of Benning carnage because he got an extension last year and you expect people approching you with a good discussion?

 

[xtra]

Again,...this was a rebuilding consensus bottom 5 team..They went 1-13-0 due to injuries, schedule...Outside of that, they have been on a playoff pace.

Remove their winning streak and they are the worst team in the league

 

[ProstheticConscience]

-Benning has not picked any higher than 5th..there's no guarantee there is going to be franchise player there..We have never won the lottery

So what? Gillis never picked higher than 9th. So what if Benning never won the lottery? Like there's some huge, yawning chasm between 1st and 5th in the draft every year. You think franchise players are only available at 1st overall? Nope.

-I would say most posters had Vilardi or Glass as the 2017 pick (myself included)...Canucks targeted EP from the outset, and were spot on

Also, so what? They weren't very bloody spot on with Juolevi or Virtanen, were they? You're still just hanging your hat on Benning being good due to his finally not f***ing up something that should be a slam dunk, especially for a guy who's somehow supposed to be good at drafting.

-Erikkson is an anchor contract (most teams have one)..Sutters LNTC kicks in next year..Beagle is only being paid $3m (600K over the league average)..and has a modified NTC (he can be traded)....We have cap space (6th most in the league I believe)

Oh, so the players Benning signed to contracts with NTCs can conveniently be traded (not that Benning's done that) but the guys he inherited had NTCs that were some crippling roadblock? Yeah, I'll believe Sutter and Beagle are movable when I see it. And check back to see how much cap space the team has after Pettersson and Boeser's ELCs run out and Edler gets re-signed. Know how much cap space the team will have then? Not bloody much. And we'll still be married to Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, and all the other various lesser lights who range from okay to just plain bad, not to mention whoever he throws stupid money at this coming offseason.

 

[timw33]

-Benning has not picked any higher than 5th..there's no guarantee there is going to be franchise player there..We have never won the lottery

Yeah jeez it's not like we haven't passed by two legitimate first line 60+ point talents with the 5th and 6th picks.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Yeah jeez it's not like we haven't passed by two legitimate first line 60+ point talents with the 5th and 6th picks.

I’d rather have 1 elite first line center than 2 wingers.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

[

So what? Gillis never picked higher than 9th. So what if Benning never won the lottery? Like there's some huge, yawning chasm between 1st and 5th in the draft every year. You think franchise players are only available at 1st overall? Nope.

Also, so what? They weren't very bloody spot on with Juolevi or Virtanen, were they? You're still just hanging your hat on Benning being good due to his finally not ****ing up something that should be a slam dunk, especially for a guy who's somehow supposed to be good at drafting.


Oh, so the players Benning signed to contracts with NTCs can conveniently be traded (not that Benning's done that) but the guys he inherited had NTCs that were some crippling roadblock? Yeah, I'll believe Sutter and Beagle are movable when I see it. And check back to see how much cap space the team has after Pettersson and Boeser's ELCs run out and Edler gets re-signed. Know how much cap space the team will have then? Not bloody much. And we'll still be married to Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, and all the other various lesser lights who range from okay to just plain bad, not to mention whoever he throws stupid money at this coming offseason.

 

[Peter10]

I’d rather have 1 elite first line center than 2 wingers.

I 'd rather have a competent GM than a bumbling idiot....

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

[

Replying to PC...
There are chasms in picks 1-5..Puljijarvi,Bennett,Dal Colle to name a few...also,there were better picks than Virtanen and Juolevi,but hindsight is a wonderful thing (there's 30 other teams saying the same thing about their picks)..Sorry,that Benning didnt nail everyone of his #1 picks.

The guys that JB inherited from the previous administration had NMC's and NTC's....That in effect, meant that there was not going to be a rebuild here until 2016-17.

 

[tyhee]

Every post that I can see on this page appears to be in response to another post which I can't see. Maybe I'm using the Ignore feature too much.

Or maybe not.

Edit: That comment is no longer true. When I had clicked on the thread, looked at a couple other threads and then come back to it that was the case, but by the time I got to it and posted my comment Prosthetic Conscience had Post #909, which I can see with the quoted parts.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yeah jeez it's not like we haven't passed by two legitimate first line 60+ point talents with the 5th and 6th picks.

Calgary Flames and NYI say the same thing about Bennett and Dal Colle.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You whitewash 4 years of Benning carnage because he got an extension last year and you expect people approching you with a good discussion?

Did I whitewash it, or did Francesco Aqualini..?

 

[Peter10]

Did I whitewash it, or did Francesco Aqualini..?

Easily you did because you argued Benning is good because he got an extension. For all we know Aualini only extented him because Trevor pushed for it and now he is stuck with dumbo because nobody else wants to work in this toxic environment of pure incompetence going from top to bottom.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Easily you did because you argued Benning is good because he got an extension. For all we know Aualini only extented him because Trevor pushed for it and now he is stuck with dumbo because nobody else wants to work in this toxic environment of pure incompetence going from top to bottom.

So you're saying that being a GM of the Canucks is not a coveted job anymore because of ownership?

edit:..If Benning got extended wouldn't those mistakes in the first 2.5 years have been discussed?...Why were they overlooked, and why was he extended.?

 

[Peter10]

So you're saying that being a GM of the Canucks is not a coveted job anymore because of ownership?

Not for the ones with a good track record and reputation. An owner giving an extension to a clown like Benning must look terrible to everyone half competent. Why would such a person waste their time working for Aquilini?

We may eventually get lucky with a rather no-name guy but that is our best best at the moment.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

..........and yet as fantastic as this season has been labelled....they are matching the same pace as their two dismal prior seasons. The team is nowhere close to contending now or in the next few years. The team needs to keep acquiring younger assets, not be fixated on how to function if they can't keep a 33 year old defenseman who, on a good team, would be a 3/4 type.

Very aware that we have the same amount of points as the dismal season...but who's leading the charge?...a bunch of 23 and unders....

Team is already in the hunt for playoff spot..got to start somewhere...It takes multiple attempts in the playoffs to become elite.

The team does need to acquire younger assets, but not at the cost of throwing them into the deep end of the pool (thats what the Oilers did)...Thats why Edler will most likely stay.

 

[pgj98m3]

So you're saying that being a GM of the Canucks is not a coveted job anymore because of ownership?

edit:..If Benning got extended wouldn't those mistakes in the first 2.5 years have been discussed?...Why were they overlooked, and why was he extended.?

Cause ownership is idiotic?

 

[Pip]

Very aware that we have the same amount of points as the dismal season...but who's leading the charge?...a bunch of 23 and unders....

Team is already in the hunt for playoff spot..got to start somewhere...It takes multiple attempts in the playoffs to become elite.

The team does need to acquire younger assets, but not at the cost of throwing them into the deep end of the pool (thats what the Oilers did)...Thats why Edler will most likely stay.

If we're being lead by 3 young players that have exceeded all expectations, then clearly the problem is with the supporting case. Like EP is an over a point per game player and a great 2-way player and Horvat has been an absolute horse and Boeser has been productive. These players might be pretty damn close to their ceilings. Most forwards to peak early in their careers. Unfortunately most of the supporting case was brought in by Benning, and in the good vets Edler/Tanev are likely on the backend of their careers. Even worse most of the vets have term, and are unlikely to improve. Because of Benning's inability to assess talent at the pro level we have a lot of money locked up in bad players. We are going to lose our wiggle room when Boeser and EP get signed to what they're worth. Maybe Hughes comes in and saves the day, but I'm not holding out breath, and let's be honest the reinforcements others than that have a ton of question marks.

 

[Melvin]

If we're being lead by 3 young players that have exceeded all expectations, then clearly the problem is with the supporting case. Like EP is an over a point per game player and a great 2-way player and Horvat has been an absolute horse and Boeser has been productive. These players might be pretty damn close to their ceilings. Most forwards to peak early in their careers. Unfortunately most of the supporting case was brought in by Benning, and in the good vets Edler/Tanev are likely on the backend of their careers. Even worse most of the vets have term, and are unlikely to improve. Because of Benning's inability to assess talent at the pro level we have a lot of money locked up in bad players. We are going to lose our wiggle room when Boeser and EP get signed to what they're worth. Maybe Hughes comes in and saves the day, but I'm not holding out breath, and let's be honest the reinforcements others than that have a ton of question marks.

I keep thinking about the 2014 Oilers. Leading scorers were 22 year old Hall, 23 year old Eberle, 25 year old Perron, 20 year old RNH, and 24 year old Gagner. And 23 year old Schultz led defensemen.

Somehow that team missed the playoffs. Somehow that team finished in last. I wonder how that can be.

And it wasn't just defense; that team finished 26th out of 30 teams in goals scored. Dead last in goals allowed, of course.

 

[xtra]

I keep thinking about the 2014 Oilers. Leading scorers were 22 year old Hall, 23 year old Eberle, 25 year old Perron, 20 year old RNH, and 24 year old Gagner. And 23 year old Schultz led defensemen.

Somehow that team missed the playoffs. Somehow that team finished in last. I wonder how that can be.

And it wasn't just defense; that team finished 26th out of 30 teams in goals scored. Dead last in goals allowed, of course.

I bet POM ignores this like most posts he can’t argue against.


But oh yea here are other franchise players that were taken at 5 off the top of my head so to say it never happens is false news.
Vanek
Price
Wheeler
Kessel
Jagr
Guerin
Scott Stevens
Barrasso

You could probably add Matthew tkachuk here if benning hadn’t been an idiot

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I bet POM ignores this like most posts he can’t argue against.


But oh yea here are other franchise players that were taken at 5 off the top of my head so to say it never happens is false news.
Vanek
Price
Wheeler
Kessel
Jagr
Guerin
Scott Stevens
Barrasso

You could probably add Matthew tkachuk here if benning hadn’t been an idiot

Saying there is no guarantee is not the same as saying that you could never find a franchise player at 5....?.(nice try)..Out of that list only Price,Jagr,and maybe Stevens are 'franchise' players.

 

[Melvin]

We say this every year but it's still true. You could waive every player who isn't on an elc or acquired by a prior gm and be pretty much fine.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So that should excuse him of everything? "Oh you never won the lottery? Please go on and be a terrible GM until you finally get that much deserved #1" It might sound strange to you but other teams have drafted top players outside #1 too.




Their top target was Makar. Had they gotten him, this team is dead last and Benning close to be fired. Thank Colorado for that-



Just because other teams have been stupid doesnt make the Eriksson contract less stupid. Mind you, Benning went after Lucic first - in that regard Eriksson is a blessing in disguise.



Fourth liner usually dont bet paid more than the league average. There are 12 fwds playing, the average forward is number 6.5 in otherwords a border line 2nd liner. Essentially you are saying Beagle gets paid like a bottom end 2nd liner while playing 4c is ok.

Do you have a source that Makar was the top choice ..?...Not excusing Benning for signing Eriksson,but all those top end UFA's got ridiculous contracts that year (Lucic,Brouwer)...What does it matter that Beagle is slightly overpaid (term is one year too long)..He's been a good signing.