Post-Game Talk: #16: Coyotes 4 at FLYERS 5 (OT), Thursday, Nov. 8, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[deadhead]

It's not about star love or scrub hate, it's about team building.
A championship team needs the right balance of players, and a good GM identifies the players who have more value in trade than going forward.
As Branch Rickey used to say, better to trade a player a year early than a year late.

My issue with Sanheim is we already have Ghost, we don't need two soft puck moving LHD, I was hoping Sanheim would fill out and become a more balanced player, not a taller, less skilled version of Ghost.

My issue with Voracek is I don't think he'll age well, I see the same player I saw five years ago, doing the exact same things with the same strengths and weaknesses, but a stride slower. In a couple years he'll be two strides slower and far less effective. I don't see him transitioning to a PF role as he ages, so I think he'll be the 3RW in 2-3 years, and $8.25M is a lot to play for a meh 3RW. Compare to JVR who really reworked his game in Toronto and is a legitimate PF who lives in the slot, has become responsible defensively and is even a better passer than I expected.

 

[Ruck Over]

Whatchu mean? Frosty the Goal Man will be the next Giroux.

Another scrub? Yippie ...

#ObviousHeelTurn

 

[hatcher]

This team is bottom of the barrel and you cant trust what you get. Building should be empty until changes and big changes are made.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

My issue with Sanheim is we already have Ghost, we don't need two soft puck moving LHD, I was hoping Sanheim would fill out and become a more balanced player, not a taller, less skilled version of Ghost.

 

[deadhead]

As for icetime, for the 100th time, it's because the icetime TODAY will help us win in the future more. We have a coach that is risk averse and some of us want one that isn't. We are drafting high skilled guys, but the coach prefers low skilled ones. That's an issue.

Lindblom, Patrick, TK are highly skilled, so is Provorov and Ghost, they get plenty of TOI.

Laughton is not highly skilled, he struggled on the 3rd line when he was promoted, excels in a 4th line forechecking role - the problem is putting together a 4th line that can play 10 minutes a night. When JVR returns, go with Weise - Laughton - NAK.

When people make this argument, it always comes down to ONE player, Sanheim.
And I think what limits Sanheim is that he's a poor man's version of Ghost right now, so he's a bit redundant.
Sanheim didn't come to camp looking like a player dedicated to taking his defense to the next level by getting stronger and more physical.

 

[hatcher]

Lindblom, Patrick, TK are highly skilled, so is Provorov and Ghost, they get plenty of TOI.

Laughton is not highly skilled, he struggled on the 3rd line when he was promoted, excels in a 4th line forechecking role - the problem is putting together a 4th line that can play 10 minutes a night. When JVR returns, go with Weise - Laughton - NAK.

When people make this argument, it always comes down to ONE player, Sanheim.
And I think what limits Sanheim is that he's a poor man's version of Ghost right now, so he's a bit redundant.
Sanheim didn't come to camp looking like a player dedicated to taking his defense to the next level by getting stronger and more physical.

He's nothing like ghost and softer for a bigger guy. Trade for something else.

 

[deadhead]

Except that's not it at all.

Some just think it's dumb to want to trade Ghost for a 1 dimensional, soft RW when we already have Jake and TK here. Especially when we have no Dman who can do what Ghost does on the PP or 3vs3. And for all the "just a PP specialist" talk we hear from certain people, Ghost was 17th in ES points last year.

TK is not a 1 dimensional, soft RW, he's really raised his game another notch this season, he's becoming the 1RW people claimed he was last year off an unsustainable shooting %. Now he plays 200 feet, plays physical and plays smart. Not everything is a matter of points. Points are stochastic, good play should be consistent.

If you trade for Nylander, you trade away Voracek, only need one soft, scoring RW getting a lot of money.

 

[Striiker]

wE nEeD mOrE tUfF GoOnZ

SkIlL iZ bAd

Hakstol and his worshipers are on the same page

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Definitely not the Hakstol Defense Corps.

When have I ever said I’d be upset if they fired Hakstol?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Lots of people said Ghost messed that goal up...myself included. But also said the ref played a big part in it as well.

And that’s exactly what I said in the GDT at intermission after seeing a replay.

 

[Magua]

Ghost letting the puck out at the blueline is an outlier play, acting like it's the norm is a stance opposed to reality.

He’s actually a god at blue line keeps. A god of gods. Weirdest f***ing complaint ever over a fluky play. It’s like complaining about McDavid’s skating for blowing a tire once.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not about star love or scrub hate, it's about team building.
A championship team needs the right balance of players, and a good GM identifies the players who have more value in trade than going forward.
As Branch Rickey used to say, better to trade a player a year early than a year late.

My issue with Sanheim is we already have Ghost, we don't need two soft puck moving LHD, I was hoping Sanheim would fill out and become a more balanced player, not a taller, less skilled version of Ghost.

My issue with Voracek is I don't think he'll age well, I see the same player I saw five years ago, doing the exact same things with the same strengths and weaknesses, but a stride slower. In a couple years he'll be two strides slower and far less effective. I don't see him transitioning to a PF role as he ages, so I think he'll be the 3RW in 2-3 years, and $8.25M is a lot to play for a meh 3RW. Compare to JVR who really reworked his game in Toronto and is a legitimate PF who lives in the slot, has become responsible defensively and is even a better passer than I expected.

Your issue with Sanheim is that you have to trash him to defend Hakstol's usage of him. That is it. There's nothing more to it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He’s actually a god at blue line keeps. A god of gods. Weirdest ****ing complaint ever over a fluky play. It’s like complaining about McDavid’s skating for blowing a tire once.

Ghost is the best I’ve ever seen at offensive blueline keeps on the PP. No doubt about it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Beef, since you like to harp on specifics, I never said failing to keep the puck in at the blueline was a common occurrence with Ghost. My complaint with Ghost is how often he forces low percentage plays (rushes & passes) that result in an inordinate number of turnovers that spring the opposition on Grade A chances.

What I said after his bungle at the offensive blueline & proceeding linesman pick was that I’m sick of all the odd man breaks & breakaways against that Ghost is directly involved with. The manner of this one was of the rarer type, I’ll give you that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

TK is not a 1 dimensional, soft RW, he's really raised his game another notch this season, he's becoming the 1RW people claimed he was last year off an unsustainable shooting %. Now he plays 200 feet, plays physical and plays smart. Not everything is a matter of points. Points are stochastic, good play should be consistent.

If you trade for Nylander, you trade away Voracek, only need one soft, scoring RW getting a lot of money.

Voracek is better than Nylander.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Beef, since you like to harp on specifics, I never said failing to keep the puck in at the blueline was a common occurrence with Ghost. My complaint with Ghost is how often he forces low percentage plays (rushes & passes) that result in an inordinate number of turnovers that spring the opposition on Grade A chances.

What I said after his bungle at the offensive blueline & proceeding linesman pick was that I’m sick of all the odd man breaks & breakaways against that Ghost is directly involved with. The manner of this one was of the rarer type, I’ll give you that.

And Appleyard completely scuttled that argument.

Yet despite that you're still presenting it. Hell, last night Hagg and Gudas alone destroyed offensive pressure and left us in our own end with poor shots and choices more times than Ghost yet somehow that's not a problem?

 

[hatcher]

Voracek is better than Nylander.

Drugs are bad for you dude. That kid ooozes talent. V scores no doubt but hes terrible at back checking and giving the puck away.

 

[Striiker]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Tripod]

Lindblom, Patrick, TK are highly skilled, so is Provorov and Ghost, they get plenty of TOI.

Laughton is not highly skilled, he struggled on the 3rd line when he was promoted, excels in a 4th line forechecking role - the problem is putting together a 4th line that can play 10 minutes a night. When JVR returns, go with Weise - Laughton - NAK.

When people make this argument, it always comes down to ONE player, Sanheim.
And I think what limits Sanheim is that he's a poor man's version of Ghost right now, so he's a bit redundant.
Sanheim didn't come to camp looking like a player dedicated to taking his defense to the next level by getting stronger and more physical.

We are talking about the same TK who was "promoted" to the 3rd line by Hakstol in favour of Raffl, right? Plenty of people had issue with that. Raffl played 4 seconds less than TK at ES in last years playoffs. But let's ignore that.

So no...it's not just about Sanheim. But with Sanheim you can see the talent he has when he is let off his leash and is told to push the pace/offense. Maybe people just think he should not have been #7 in icetime last year....followed by #7 in icetime AGAIN this year for our Dmen.

TK is not a 1 dimensional, soft RW, he's really raised his game another notch this season, he's becoming the 1RW people claimed he was last year off an unsustainable shooting %. Now he plays 200 feet, plays physical and plays smart. Not everything is a matter of points. Points are stochastic, good play should be consistent.

If you trade for Nylander, you trade away Voracek, only need one soft, scoring RW getting a lot of money.

The soft 1 dimensional RW was Nylander...not TK. And once again you lie because Jake is not soft.

What great ideas. Trade Ghost for Nylander, then trade Jake for a Dman. Or just keep the 2 guys you have

 

[gertbfrobe16]

just like in the movie goon. this team needs the captain to tell them, they need to get gay porn hard. then he could go around and grab a few butts for encouragement.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And Appleyard completely scuttled that argument.

Yet despite that you're still presenting it. Hell, last night Hagg and Gudas alone destroyed offensive pressure and left us in our own end with poor shots and choices more times than Ghost yet somehow that's not a problem?

Via what? NHL turnover stats are a joke. I’ve seen Ghost have games with 3-4 blatant turnovers & the box score say 0 or 1. I think even you acknowledged turnover stats are a joke.
All it takes is eyesight & watching the game to see how often Ghost turns it over on forced rushes & passes, & how he’s directly responsible for an inordinate number of odd man rushes & Grade A chances against.
Anyone saying otherwise is relying on flawed statistics & not actually observing the games.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nylander also can play center.

Go Couturier-Nylander-Patrick down the middle & you’ve completely changed the team for the better.

Think about the possibilities:

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
JVR-Nylander-Simmonds
Lindblom-Patrick-TK
Raffl-Laughton-Weise

 

[Beef Invictus]

Via what? NHL turnover stats are a joke. I’ve seen Ghost have games with 3-4 blatant turnovers & the box score say 0 or 1. I think even you acknowledged turnover stats are a joke.
All it takes is eyesight & watching the game to see how often Ghost turns it over on forced rushes & passes, & how he’s directly responsible for an inordinate number of odd man rushes & Grade A chances against.
Anyone saying otherwise is relying on flawed statistics & not actually observing the games.

If he were generating so many high quality chances against it would be resulting in more goals against. That hasn't occurred, and he isn't freakishly lucky in save percentage either. It doesn't add up.

 

[Curufinwe]

He’s actually a god at blue line keeps. A god of gods. Weirdest ****ing complaint ever over a fluky play. It’s like complaining about McDavid’s skating for blowing a tire once.

Or complaining if Giroux loses a key faceoff.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If he were generating so many high quality chances against it would be resulting in more goals against. That hasn't occurred, and he isn't freakishly lucky in save percentage either. It doesn't add up.

Sounds like a bunch of statistical mumbo jumbo to me, because it’s blatantly clear by watching the games that he has a terrible habit of turning it over via forced rushes & passes & is responsible for more odd man breaks than anyone else on the team.

And what do you mean it hadn’t occurred? At -8 last night he was far and away worst among the D (and whole team I think).