Post-Game Talk: #16: Coyotes 4 at FLYERS 5 (OT), Thursday, Nov. 8, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yeah, its all about age to him. He makes it so obvious.

Like I loved how his reaction to the PP giving up two shorthanded goals was to remove Patrick and Konecny from the top unit, as if any of it had anything to do with them. It was their fault the ref got in the way and it was their fault the 2nd unit gave up the other one! Everything gets scapegoated on the youth.

But they are our "heroes" and we are "h8ers" who can't think for ourselves, so it's obviously their fault and we are obviously wrong because authority.

 

[Striiker]

But they are our "heroes" and we are "h8ers" who can't think for ourselves, so it's obviously their fault and we are obviously wrong because authority.

Ah yes, of course.

We just think they’re good because we like them, it’s not that we like them because they’re good! Yes, true.

Same thing with the players we hate. Obviously we just say they’re bad because we hate them. Couldn’t possibly be that we dislike players who are trash.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ghost...according to NHL.com....has 6 giveaways this year. No way that stat is right. It also says Hagg only has 4.

RE: Giveaways/Takeaways

The following data is for the length of Hakstol's tenure, mostly because it's what we do around here. It holds no significant breakpoint. What do you think the reliability of a subjective, non-data driven stat that has the following extremities is?

The Hurricanes have been credited with 2642 Takeaways. The Kings have 1115.

The Oilers have 3036 Giveaways. The Blues have 1449.

NHL.com giveaway/takeaway stats are the biggest joke in sports.

These were not turnovers according to their trackers:

 

[FlyTimmo]

Uh, absolutely, not relatively.

2.15 pp/60, CF 51.60, CFrel +1.02, GF/GA 6/5, xGF 62.05, xGFrel +12.79, HDCF/CA 38/18

Compare to Laughton

1.49 pp/60, CF 42.91, CFrel -8.11, GF/GA 7/7, xGF 47.02, xGFrel -2.89, HDCF/CA 25/27

Laughton had a good start, struggled when he was promoted, and is playing well again now that he's back in a forechecking role on the 4th line - some players are just suited to certain roles.

So I guess there is some correlation between performance and playing time?

Good is totally subjective, so uh, I can say relatively without your sass.

 

[deadhead]

Ah yes, of course.

We just think they’re good because we like them, it’s not that we like them because they’re good! Yes, true.

Same thing with the players we hate. Obviously we just say they’re bad because we hate them. Couldn’t possibly be that we dislike players who are trash.

So the Hive is real!

 

[deadhead]

Good is totally subjective, so uh, I can say relatively without your sass.

A ha, a moral relativist, we know about your kind!

 

[Tripod]

A ha, a moral relativist, we know about your kind!

Hmmmmm.

 

[TheKingPin]

Huh?
We are 4th.

? Yea so a win tomorrow and we are first. Pretty crappy division thankfully.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wonder if Weise got that contract and though he was now a top 9 winger and didn't have to play the style that got him that contract, at least subconsciously. Because he seems faster and more motivated this season, doing the dirty work. He still belongs on the 4th line, but now looks like he can be the top 4th line winger some wanted to sign this offseason. Nothing wrong with a top 4th line that can wreck havoc on the forecheck - we'll see how Weise responds when JVR returns and he gets demoted.

Much faster. Able to get to the puck. Much more willing to crash the boards in a straight line on a consistent basis.

 

[Breeze 44]

I agree hatch. He would really fortify this team. I have decided I *would* trade Ghost for him, & that’s probably what it would take. The Flyers have Myers to call up. They have guys who can play the point.

I'm not trading Ghost for Nylander, no way.

 

[Striiker]

I'm not trading Ghost for Nylander, no way.

Not only did Ghost outscore him last year as a defensemen but he’s also much cheaper too.

$4.5m per year for Ghost is a steal.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'm not trading Ghost for Nylander, no way.

I realize I'm in the minority, but in order to get a real young, high-skill impact player, you have to trade significant value. And this team is in desperate need of more dynamism at forward. They just don't have many players who can create and who can put the defense on their heels in transition.

Nylander is one of the highest-skill young players in the world, and is 3 years younger than Gostisbehere.

If you slotted Nylander in at 2C, and moved Patrick to 3C, you have instantly turned your forward group into a force to be reckoned with, with 3 dangerous lines and a good 4th. I think they can withstand the loss of Ghost on the blueline if Nylander is the trade off.

 

[deadhead]

We don't need a center, we need a young RW and maybe a RHD.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I realize I'm in the minority, but in order to get a real young, high-skill impact player, you have to trade significant value. And this team is in desperate need of more dynamism at forward. They just don't have many players who can create and who can put the defense on their heels in transition.

Nylander is one of the highest-skill young players in the world, and is 3 years younger than Gostisbehere.

If you slotted Nylander in at 2C, and moved Patrick to 3C, you have instantly turned your forward group into a force to be reckoned with, with 3 dangerous lines and a good 4th. I think they can withstand the loss of Ghost on the blueline if Nylander is the trade off.

So you've come around on the coach but now you need a new contarian stance, so you've decided to smear Ghost?

 

[Striiker]

#GhostDerangementSyndrome

 

[Adtar02]

Still think they want a first pair defender. Hagg and simonds should get it done

 

[deadhead]

Still think they want a first pair defender. Hagg and simonds should get it done

That is facetious, isn't it?

Simmonds and Hagg might get you a veteran top four defenseman, or a marginal young defenseman with top four upside.
Simmonds is not going to have huge value on the trade market, he can still score goals but otherwise is a pretty limited player. Think Maroon.
Hagg is a young, cost controlled 3rd pair defenseman who can play 2nd pair with the right partner.

(and no, he's not considered top 4 here, if Ghost and Provorov had played well together, Hagg would be paired with Folin and eventually they'd be the 3rd pair at ES, and on the PK which would add 1-2 minutes a night to their 15, at some point Ghost and Provorov will be reunited).

 

[Adtar02]

It was on many levels. But nylander will not bring back near as much as you think at this point. If they are going for it that package is closer than what their fans are asking

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The Leafs aren't moving Nylander in a deal where the longterm centerpiece is Hagg. Come on now. He has value, but not that kind.

 

[deadhead]

It would have to be something like Rubtsov/Vorobyev, Kase/NAK, Hagg and a 2nd rd pick for starters.

 

[Curufinwe]

The Leafs aren't moving Nylander in a deal where the longterm centerpiece is Hagg. Come on now. He has value, but not that kind.

That’s why you need to throw in Simmonds.