Post-Game Talk: #16: Coyotes 4 at FLYERS 5 (OT), Thursday, Nov. 8, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
I’ve already explained my point. I’m sick of repeating it. My complaint with Ghost is that *HE* is directly responsible for an inordinate number of odd man rushes against via turnover compared to any other individual on the team. When there’s an odd man rush via turnover when he’s on the ice (& are your stats including 4 on 4, bc that counts,too) odds are he’s responsible. And I think he’s a turnover machine in general.

Other players may have higher GA/60, but I highly doubt they *individually* were directly responsible for more turnovers turning into Grade A chances than Ghost.


If this were true it would be reflected in his stats. It isn't true, it isn't reflected. Either he is secretly playing stalwart defense the rest of the time to make up for all these high danger chances which would be going in at a rate of something like 20+% of the time, or goalies when he's on the ice would have a weirdly high save percentage, or your depiction is false. He isn't playing stalwart defense to even out his numbers, though, and his on-ice save percentage absolutely is not higher to explain why all these high danger chances against aren't ending up in the net. Only one scenario remains.
 
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Captain Dave Poulin

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maxwell-smart-missed-it-by-that-much.gif
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
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Nova Scotia
I was given “statistical evidence” that doesn’t account for individual responsibility and spreads blame for goals & chances against equally among all 5 players on the ice. My point is that Ghost is a turnover machine & individually responsible for an inordinate number of odd man rush chances against than his 4 other linemates.
ok...so provide a stat that backs up this claim.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
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Armored Train
I was given “statistical evidence” that doesn’t account for individual responsibility and spreads blame for goals & chances against equally among all 5 players on the ice. My point is that Ghost is a turnover machine & individually responsible for an inordinate number of odd man rush chances against than his 4 other linemates.

And there. That is my argument summarized. I will not bang my head against the ice further. If you don’t believe me, you don’t believe me.


If Ghost is individually responsible for an inordinate amount of chances against something in the stats would show it. Either he would have a poor GA rate, or he would have a higher on-ice save percentage to account for the lack of goals against. He has neither of those things, AND he has a lacking PDO to boot, so he isn't enjoying much in the way of "luck."
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
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Nova Scotia
If they counted terrible shots as giveaways Hagg and Gudas would each have approximately 75,412.
I loved last night when JJ(I believe) made the comment about Hagg shooting it up by Konecny's ear who was in front.

Sanheim last night also had 2 that I remember where he did the AMac/Gudas special and shot it into shinpads. He is learning.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,320
Armored Train
I loved last night when JJ(I believe) made the comment about Hagg shooting it up by Konecny's ear who was in front.

Sanheim last night also had 2 that I remember where he did the AMac/Gudas special and shot it into shinpads. He is learning.

The Sanheim attempts were jarringly bad especially since they weren't especially in character for him of late.

Gudas is something I just live with. He's gonna bang at the puck enthusiastically whenever he can. He's played well enough in his own end to make up for that, at least. If he were sucking on D and killing offense then it would be time to paint a target on that ninehead of his.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,322
103,974
RE: Giveaways/Takeaways

The following data is for the length of Hakstol's tenure, mostly because it's what we do around here. It holds no significant breakpoint. What do you think the reliability of a subjective, non-data driven stat that has the following extremities is?

The Hurricanes have been credited with 2642 Takeaways. The Kings have 1115.

The Oilers have 3036 Giveaways. The Blues have 1449.
 

1865

Alpha Couturier
Feb 28, 2005
16,839
5,603
Chester, UK
Compared to expectations? Sure.

Still inferior to Laughton, who is now stuck playing 9 minutes per night for no reason.

And NAK (who has looked more than capable whenever he’s on the ice) is still only getting 4 minutes. It makes no sense.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Wonder if Weise got that contract and though he was now a top 9 winger and didn't have to play the style that got him that contract, at least subconsciously. Because he seems faster and more motivated this season, doing the dirty work. He still belongs on the 4th line, but now looks like he can be the top 4th line winger some wanted to sign this offseason. Nothing wrong with a top 4th line that can wreck havoc on the forecheck - we'll see how Weise responds when JVR returns and he gets demoted.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Relatively

Uh, absolutely, not relatively.

2.15 pp/60, CF 51.60, CFrel +1.02, GF/GA 6/5, xGF 62.05, xGFrel +12.79, HDCF/CA 38/18

Compare to Laughton

1.49 pp/60, CF 42.91, CFrel -8.11, GF/GA 7/7, xGF 47.02, xGFrel -2.89, HDCF/CA 25/27

Laughton had a good start, struggled when he was promoted, and is playing well again now that he's back in a forechecking role on the 4th line - some players are just suited to certain roles.

So I guess there is some correlation between performance and playing time?
 

MacDonald4MVP

Registered User
May 7, 2016
9,931
5,269
Yeah, as we all know, performance has zero impact on icetime... so guys like NAK and Laughton are stuck with their scrap time, no matter how they play.
Well they are bottom6 players and non veterans to boot. They get exactly what they deserve in jeffs mind.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Well, you could reduce Voracek's minutes, it would hurt scoring for both teams, since he leads the team in high danger chances allowed.
Or reduce Simmonds minutes.
Weise has clearly outplayed Laughton up to now as a 3LW, and Weal as a 3C.
Laughton has made it apparent he's a much better player in a 4th line role.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Well they are bottom6 players and non veterans to boot. They get exactly what they deserve in jeffs mind.
Yeah, its all about age to him. He makes it so obvious.

Like I loved how his reaction to the PP giving up two shorthanded goals was to remove Patrick and Konecny from the top unit, as if any of it had anything to do with them. It was their fault the ref got in the way and it was their fault the 2nd unit gave up the other one! Everything gets scapegoated on the youth.
 
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Captain Dave Poulin

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Apr 30, 2015
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Relatively

Yep. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when he crashes back to earth and returns to being a total non-event, as he has following every one of these extremely rare purple patches he has ever had in his inexplicable long-faced NHL career. I wonder how the Pimp, for example, would have done with a legitimate run of games with no consequences for his mistakes and even a Death-Star-sized "Attaboy!" helmet thrown in.
 

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