Boston Bruins ‘22-‘23 Bruins roster and trade proposals discussions. VI

[4ORRBRUIN]

Garland has 3 more years after this one , let Canucks keep him.......

Yes

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I think the canes have more expected goals than the bruins which some people think is an indicator of future performance

They do but you’re misrepresenting a bit. Expected goals is one metric but it’s not the end all be all especially at a team level.

What you see when you stack up Carolina and us is the huge contrast in styles. The Bruins are first in the league in unblocked shot attempts that miss the net at 26.33%. Carolina is dead last in the league at 29%. Were all about shot quality, they huck everything at the net. We shoot 9.48% on our shots that hit the net, third in the league. Carolina is 7.81%, 24th in the league.

For a look at our different style, last year we were second to last in the league on shots that hit the net at 7.34%. So using our results last year against Carolina is misleading since our style has changed so profusely.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Responses from Hawk fans regarding Toews speed...It's noted in a number of articles. Most recent is Toews has been dropped from 2nd line center to 3rd line on a terrible Hawks team.

Trade Value Tracker

Question regarding Toews...where has he declined most? Is speed a concern?

forums.hfboards.com

Yeah he looks super slow out there. Also makes some boneheaded decisions with the puck. Probably can’t process the game as fast as he used to.

I'd say his energy/stamina. Always looks physically and mentally fatigued.

Lost his quickness and straight line speed. Still very capable 3rd line center. Plays a veteran game still producing.​

​

Hes scoring at the same clip as Kirby Dach, Dawson Mercer, Pageau, Tatar etc..​

What he has lost...

He has lost a step.
The days of him deeking out a player and scoring on a wrist shot in the slot are over.
He can get walked from time to time and a player can go past him. (Doesn't happen often though)
His stamina has been cut in half.
He is not a danger to score unless he is 5 feet from the crease.

What he has kept.

Best FO man in the league.
He is still good along the boards.
His passing ability and IQ to set up others.
He tends to score his goals from in close. Ex - shot passes off his stick, tipping in point shots or getting a greasy rebound.

He's a perfect 3rd line center for any playoff team and can play 2nd line if there is an injury.

Its hard to say whether Toews has actually lost a step or not because he doesn't even try to skate hard on 95% of his shifts. His stamina is so bad he would gas immediately if he skated hard or battled in the corners like he used to

Have to wonder if he has Lyme disease after all. No one has been able to confirm those rumors.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Responses from Hawk fans regarding Toews speed...It's noted in a number of articles. Most recent is Toews has been dropped from 2nd line center to 3rd line on a terrible Hawks team.

Trade Value Tracker

Question regarding Toews...where has he declined most? Is speed a concern?

forums.hfboards.com

Yeah he looks super slow out there. Also makes some boneheaded decisions with the puck. Probably can’t process the game as fast as he used to.

I'd say his energy/stamina. Always looks physically and mentally fatigued.

Lost his quickness and straight line speed. Still very capable 3rd line center. Plays a veteran game still producing.​

​

Hes scoring at the same clip as Kirby Dach, Dawson Mercer, Pageau, Tatar etc..​

What he has lost...

He has lost a step.
The days of him deeking out a player and scoring on a wrist shot in the slot are over.
He can get walked from time to time and a player can go past him. (Doesn't happen often though)
His stamina has been cut in half.
He is not a danger to score unless he is 5 feet from the crease.

What he has kept.

Best FO man in the league.
He is still good along the boards.
His passing ability and IQ to set up others.
He tends to score his goals from in close. Ex - shot passes off his stick, tipping in point shots or getting a greasy rebound.

He's a perfect 3rd line center for any playoff team and can play 2nd line if there is an injury.

Its hard to say whether Toews has actually lost a step or not because he doesn't even try to skate hard on 95% of his shifts. His stamina is so bad he would gas immediately if he skated hard or battled in the corners like he used to

All that may be true but we’re looking at him for 4C. Stack him up in the above against Nosek and it’s a huge upgrade.

 

[NDiesel]

Have to wonder if he has Lyme disease after all. No one has been able to confirm those rumors.

Could be tons of thing - I have a type of kidney/autoimmune disease that largely lets me lead my life unaffected, but I do become prone to bouts of fatigue, especially when I get hit with a resperitory illness like a cold. I could see something like that having a massive effect on a pro athlete like Toews.

Of course in my day-to-day life my performance doesn't drop off massively due to disease since I don't play a sport at a high level, but someone like him it would lead to some inconsistencies and maybe even some drop off in conditioning if he can no longer work out everyday at the same level he's accustomed to.

Fair enough. If you care to see my "discussion " about ROR on the trade board. I really think he is breaking down. However as usual, I am in the minority. Also, as usual, pretty sure I am right.

For one season I think you can take the risk that ROR or even Toews has enough in the tank for one last run.

 

[bbfan419]

I am off the Garland train. Since the Yotes dumped him and the 'Nucks want to, I suspect strongly there is an attitude problem there. He is not a high end top six winger, and not worth any trouble that may come with him.

He certainly had an attitude problem when he played junior here.

 

[CellyHard]

I think the Bruins would like to add a great player like O'Reilly while unloading a bunch of crap and one decent prospect.

So I disagree but I’m curious to see what everyone else thinks. I posted on the Blues board and they all seem to be on board about it. No pun intended. They said Barbashev is worth a 2nd, Acciari a 2nd, and Mikkola a 3rd.

I proposed our 1st, Smith and a prospect/cap filler to make things work. Maybe some retention would have to work on their end but that gives them the ability to get 3 firsts if they move ROR and Tank and we get a ton of depth in return.

So my question for everyone would you prefer to deal a 1st for Toews, ROR, Tank, Gavrikov (or a player of that ilk)

Or the depth package?

 

[Tbaybruin]

You all know me love the el cheapo route get bang for the buck kinda deal. Keep the 1st round pick and all our top prospects is my style though the lindholm trade was fantastic and its one of those once in a blue moon deals. Call dorion and send him a 5th round pick and get brassard for forward depth. Cant go wrong.

My dream is to keep Lysell and Lohrei and the #1 pick and win the cup.

 

[quietbruinfan]

He certainly had an attitude problem when he played junior here.

I did not know that, thanks.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

So I disagree but I’m curious to see what everyone else thinks. I posted on the Blues board and they all seem to be on board about it. No pun intended. They said Barbashev is worth a 2nd, Acciari a 2nd, and Mikkola a 3rd.

I proposed our 1st, Smith and a prospect/cap filler to make things work. Maybe some retention would have to work on their end but that gives them the ability to get 3 firsts if they move ROR and Tank and we get a ton of depth in return.

So my question for everyone would you prefer to deal a 1st for Toews, ROR, Tank, Gavrikov (or a player of that ilk)

Or the depth package?

Toews. Game changer to have him on the fourth and the PK despite his recent defensive woes. Obviously huge cup experience. And center depth should one of the top 3 get dinged up. You can get a depth defenseman cheaper and another depth forward even cheaper than that if desired.

 

[NDiesel]

So I disagree but I’m curious to see what everyone else thinks. I posted on the Blues board and they all seem to be on board about it. No pun intended. They said Barbashev is worth a 2nd, Acciari a 2nd, and Mikkola a 3rd.

I proposed our 1st, Smith and a prospect/cap filler to make things work. Maybe some retention would have to work on their end but that gives them the ability to get 3 firsts if they move ROR and Tank and we get a ton of depth in return.

So my question for everyone would you prefer to deal a 1st for Toews, ROR, Tank, Gavrikov (or a player of that ilk)

Or the depth package?

Just my opinion but I think you need a really good insurance policy this season in case a top 6 C goes down. The way I look at it:

You can go and get an O'Reilly/Toews who you know can slot into the top 6 if a player goes down.

Or

You get the depth package and slot Zacha into the middle and roll with that instead.

Not sure one is 'better' than the other, just depends if you think that Barbashev can effectively replace Zacha in the top 9 if Bergy/Krejci goes down AND if you trust Zacha to replace them down the middle.

Personally I want a guy like Toews or O'Reilly + a depth dman on the right side, then I'm happy.

 

[The don godfather]

Cant bankrupt the future for a chance at the cup just thrift buy and hope for the best with the elite team we already have on the ice. Throwing 3rd 4th round picks and meh prospects no harm for a shot at lord Stanley.

Toews. Game changer to have him on the fourth and the PK despite his recent defensive woes. Obviously huge cup experience. And center depth should one of the top 3 get dinged up. You can get a depth defenseman cheaper and another depth forward even cheaper than that if desired.

I bet Chicago asks for poitras for Toews something like that . If that's the case donny hangs up. I hope.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Who play for good teams.

Nick Suzuki is -16.
Aaron Ekblad -15.
Timo Meier -13.
Thomas Chabot -12.
Kris Letang -12.
Tomas Hertl -9.
Nazeem Kadri -8.
Vincent Trochek -7.

Cale Makar is a +7. Timothy Liljegren is a +22. Colin Miller is a +20.

Anze Kopitar is a +2. Michael Bunting is a +19.

Elias Lindholm is a +3. Jeff Skinner is a +15.

It's a pretty bad comparative stat.

No you used all the players that fit your agenda. Now use it the other way. People can use stats any way they want. Bobby Orr was over +100 in one year you think that was meaningless? Bergeron had good and bad years but his plus minus is usually strong because he pays attention to the defensive side of the game.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

No you used all the players that fit your agenda. Now use it the other way. People can use stats any way they want. Bobby Orr was over +100 in one year you think that was meaningless? Bergeron had good and bad years but his plus minus is usually strong because he pays attention to the defensive side of the game.

I was responding to someone who said defensively responsible players are in the top 30 by a) showing defensively responsible players who have terrible plus/minus results and then b) comparing two recent Selke finalists to horrible defensive players using plus minus.

If that’s my “agenda” so be it.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Would you consider Raty a “A level prospect” as was the rumored ask from Vancouver?

No. A-/B+ ish. Raty was a guy who was a pre-draft season top 5 or 10 pick, and by draft time everyone knew he was going to go later. Great tools.. not great production. But it's really hard to use stats with jr age guys playing in Liiga or SHL. They just don't get a lot of ice time and aren't given much of a chance. If they play in Finnish JR it's a waste because that league is a lot inferior to CHL or even USHL. So Raty became one of those guys who was overrated.... and then suddenly underrated. He was a steel at where he went, but personally I'd reserve "A" prospects for fairly sure thing top 6 guys. I think he's a notch below that.

 

[Guelph Bruin]

They have to make the playoffs first.

Yes they do, kind of the reason they acquired Horvat no? Help their chances... I think Lou is on the hot seat and needs to make the playoffs or he's gone. Horvat (current shooter) and Barzal (High level passer) might be magic on the PP ... so if it clicks then playoffs might be in the cards with a potential Bruins match up

 

[Kegs]

Yes they do, kind of the reason they acquired Horvat no? Help their chances... I think Lou is on the hot seat and needs to make the playoffs or he's gone. Horvat (current shooter) and Barzal (High level passer) might be magic on the PP ... so if it clicks then playoffs might be in the cards with a potential Bruins match up

Horvat will make them better but I doubt they make the playoffs still. He will probably move him at the deadline. Which means they still end up with a first. They will also get a better prospect then the one they moved for him imo.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Cant bankrupt the future for a chance at the cup just thrift buy and hope for the best with the elite team we already have on the ice. Throwing 3rd 4th round picks and meh prospects no harm for a shot at lord Stanley.


I bet Chicago asks for poitras for Toews something like that . If that's the case donny hangs up. I hope.

Bergeron’s potential last season, yes let’s CLING to a 32nd overall for the sake of the future of this team. A couple of 4ths for 8th dman/ 15th forward will be fine

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Cant bankrupt the future for a chance at the cup just thrift buy and hope for the best with the elite team we already have on the ice. Throwing 3rd 4th round picks and meh prospects no harm for a shot at lord Stanley.


I bet Chicago asks for poitras for Toews something like that . If that's the case donny hangs up. I hope.

Don you also wanted to keep Studnicka because he was gonna be our #2 center this year. You also wanted Galchenyuk El cheapo to play center.

I think you fall in love with the wrong players far too often.

It's a year you go for it. Not a year you hold onto the next senyshyn/Knight/Studnicka/etc. Just in case they end up something when the team is on the downswing.

 

[TCB]

Don you also wanted to keep Studnicka because he was gonna be our #2 center this year. You also wanted Galchenyuk El cheapo to play center.

I think you fall in love with the wrong players far too often.

It's a year you go for it. Not a year you hold onto the next senyshyn/Knight/Studnicka/etc. Just in case they end up something when the team is on the downswing.

That it is !

 

[ON3M4N]

I am off the Garland train. Since the Yotes dumped him and the 'Nucks want to, I suspect strongly there is an attitude problem there. He is not a high end top six winger, and not worth any trouble that may come with him.

The Yotes didn't "dump" him. He was an RFA that they didn't want to pay (classic ARZ), so they moved him to VAN to get rid of OEL. Last year in Vancouver he had his best year yet and had 52pts. This year he's on pace for 40pts playing on a trash Canucks team. IIRC he was acquired and signed by VAN previous management group. Seems more like the new management group isn't as high on him.

Over the last 2.5 seasons he ranks 41st among all NHLers in 5v5 production.

 

[quietbruinfan]

The Yotes didn't "dump" him. He was an RFA that they didn't want to pay (classic ARZ), so they moved him to VAN to get rid of OEL. Last year in Vancouver he had his best year yet and had 52pts. This year he's on pace for 40pts playing on a trash Canucks team. IIRC he was acquired and signed by VAN previous management group. Seems more like the new management group isn't as high on him.

Over the last 2.5 seasons he ranks 41st among all NHLers in 5v5 production.

Sorry it's not all about points. Besides isn't 41st about where a low end second liner should sit. Also, even a two-bit operation like Arizona would have given some thought to keeping him if he wowed them. Vancouver may want to buy him out.....that does not happen unless there is a major problem.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Toews can also play LW if needed for the record if you acquired him

So if you need a top 9 LW option you could put Toews there and have him take faceoffs (His biggest strength)

I wouldn't say he has lost step but a half step would be fair. He doesn't have the speed burst up ice offensively he once had but getting back defensively, etc hasn't been issue IMO

Overall one thing that has sunk Toews and Kane in production is the failure of several of the guys who have been around them. Anathasou for instance just an absolute pile of suck along with a few others who continually f*** up or fail to get off quality chances setup by T/K

Kane especially has lost a chunk of should have been assists this year because AA can do nothing but skate fast. The guy blows and has no hockey sense who manages to take beautiful Kane passes with open net in front of him and flub the puck or miss net routinely

Toews and rest of Hawks also seem to be affected by Mrazek and his back breaking awful goals. So many times Hawks get a goal just for him to give it right back or for games that should be close to become blowouts/one sided quickly because of Mrazek poor play

That game vs Seattle in which Mrazek allowed 4 goals on first 5 shots is recent example of this.

Toews would be a great #3C acquisition who can still play #2C IMO. His days as #1C are gone through and not coming back

I would love Kane/Toews to retire as Hawks but both deserve to move on if they desire to contenders. Toews especially seems to be one who more wants to move on. Kane on other hand seems to enjoy playing around kids in lineup and content with rebuild situation.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Could be tons of thing - I have a type of kidney/autoimmune disease that largely lets me lead my life unaffected, but I do become prone to bouts of fatigue, especially when I get hit with a resperitory illness like a cold. I could see something like that having a massive effect on a pro athlete like Toews.

Of course in my day-to-day life my performance doesn't drop off massively due to disease since I don't play a sport at a high level, but someone like him it would lead to some inconsistencies and maybe even some drop off in conditioning if he can no longer work out everyday at the same level he's accustomed to.

For one season I think you can take the risk that ROR or even Toews has enough in the tank for one last run.

I have a former? friend who has Lyme and she was quite active; Though not an athlete as you say. I agree for half a season I am willing to risk it with Toews, maybe with RoR but my gut strangely has more doubts about him than Toews. It might be the broken foot, ribs and other injuries with ROR....

 

[dugg133]

Emily Kaplan reported on The Point that Sweeney doesn’t want to spend big on rentals and that he wants players with term.

Friedman report on 32 Thoughts that he really thinks we’re gonna go for a LHD upgrade.

Putting the puzzle pieces together kinda points towards Chychrun, right? Only guy I can think of that satisfies both.