WJC: Dec 27 GDT - Canada 6 USA 3

[God Bless Canada]

Does Alzner even get one shift a game? Not that im complaining about Canada's defence lol they are freakin awesome but im just wondering...maybe he'll get some time during the games that arent so close.

He might get some ice time in the next couple games, especially in the final round robin game against Slovakia if Canada wraps up first place in the pool against Germany.

I like Alzner, a lot. He's the best of a strong crop of 1989-born defencemen for Canada. But he's on this team for a learning experience. Canada has six strong 1987-born defencemen on their roster, so they decided to go with an 89 instead of another 87. His spot on this year's roster is for experience, and it'll pay off when he leads the defence next year.

 

[Souffle]

Does Alzner even get one shift a game? Not that im complaining about Canada's defence lol they are freakin awesome but im just wondering...maybe he'll get some time during the games that arent so close.

He was on the ice for the 1st US goal. He got beat in the corner, giving up the puck which eventually found its way to EJ, who pinpointed the puck into the net. I didn't see him again after that.

 

[time]

He might get some ice time in the next couple games, especially in the final round robin game against Slovakia if Canada wraps up first place in the pool against Germany.

I like Alzner, a lot. He's the best of a strong crop of 1989-born defencemen for Canada. But he's on this team for a learning experience. Canada has six strong 1987-born defencemen on their roster, so they decided to go with an 89 instead of another 87. His spot on this year's roster is for experience, and it'll pay off when he leads the defence next year.

Was Alzner the one who lost the puck to Skille on the first US goal? Number 3?

He's 17, so I'm not passing judgement, but if it was him, Hartsburg will have to give him some shifts against GER to regain his confidence.

 

[heygarebear]

So what order would everyone rate these players?:

-Both Johnson's
-Bourdon
-Letang
-Staal
-Parent
-Russell

EJ
JJ
Staal
Bourdon
Parent
Russell

 

[wpgyotes]

That hit wasn't dirty... a charge yes, but not dirty. He just hits harder than anybody else, so people call him dirty.

It was a forearm shiver to the head...

He led with his fist, not his shoulder (and laughed about it in the box while his teammates killed a two-man advantage).

* Staal is head and shoulders above those other guys.

 

[Petes77]

I wouldn't say they were necessarily pretty, but the bottom line is Canada has got the results they needed.... and 6 points from the two toughest teams possibly in the tournament let alone their pool.

The US is in a tough spot. but its pretty obvious that they do create a lot of offensive chances and just have not finished. If they beat Sweden, the tournament is long from over for them.

Some observations: (IMHO only of course)

1. Carey Price is very solid

2. I understand that the younger players need to learn from mistakes, but Sam Gagner has to have run out of chances. He has done nothing but try to do it himself on the PP and odd man rushes. This tournament is too short. Let McArdle play a few more shifts.

3. Pierre McGuire takes the most obvious things and emphasizes, emphasizes...emphasizes!!! It's insulting to actual hockey fans. Also...if he calls one more player "special" I am going to throw up.

4. TSN seems to have their timing in the control room a little off. I know it must be tough to get those commercials in there without there actually being any TV times out...but come on....we almost missed the penalty shot because the camera was focused on the US bench!!

5. Having said that...I feel strangely compelled to withdraw some $$ from the closest Royal Bank...and go have a Pepsi, or Coors Light...or Canadian!

Go Canada Go

 

[time]

EJ
JJ
Staal
Bourdon
Parent
Russell

I guess empiricism is dead. . .

 

[espo*]

Agree.
Both Johnsons have a lot of hype and ARE very good players in this age group...but today they looked pretty overmatched.
Might be a good time to revisit the "USA has the best defense in the tourney" threads, hmmm?

it would be interesting indeed.The general consensus was that the U.S had the top two in the Johnsons but the top six was in Canada's favour.But from watching the four guys play the last 2 years i'd have to say not only does Canada have the better top 6 they also have the better top two in Staal and Parent.It has nothing to do with potential or upside where i think both Johnsons have those 2 guys beat hands down IMO(though Staal is capable of ending his career considered just as good as them) but both Johnson's have all the goods and it's just a matter of gaining experience and learning and they should turn into all-star impact players while the ceiling isn't near as high for staal-Parent IMO.

But right now,yeah..............they're just more solid,smarter d-men IMO and i can't see why anyone would feel differently.if you're picking a team and you had a choice between all four right now to win NOW it would be a wise decision to take Staal-Parent.They're just so solid defensively.I don't care how many more situations both Johnsons may play in..........staal's and Parent's rock solid D and decision making trumps those two guys right now.


I most likely won't be able to say the same thing in 2-3 years.The Johnsons upside is way higher IMO.They will have to reach it however.

 

[allin4466]

So what order would everyone rate these players?:

-Both Johnson's
-Bourdon
-Letang
-Staal
-Parent
-Russell

The only time I honestly noticed the Johnsons today was when they were either getting caught pinching, or getting burnt

 

[espo*]

great post and i completely agree

by the way bourdon and letang were definitely better today than yesterday

Bourdon and letang played well,especially letang i thought.

 

[realgoodleafs]

So what order would everyone rate these players?:

-Both Johnson's
-Bourdon
-Letang
-Staal
-Parent
-Russell

I'm thinking

Staal
Parent
Bourdon (these 3 are pretty close)
Letang

Russell



Jack Johnson
Erik Johnson....who throws a stick?


keep in mind im only talking about this tourney

 

[Brock]

Good effort by both teams.

The American forwards are clearly very talented offensively and seem to be to have better potential to score than the Canadian group. They did a very good job against a tough Canadian defense.

What's killing the Americans is defense though. Their defensive unit is just severely struggling right now. Jack Johnson is a turnover machine and seems to be trying way to hard to make plays happen up the ice right now. Making bad pinches, bad reads and bad passes. He needs to get his act together. Erik Johnson is pretty much the same, seems to be trying to do to much. That was one dumb move to throw his stick there to give Toews that penalty shot. Zatkoff read the play well and made the save. This was with the Americans right there smelling the comeback, and that play single handidly crushed their efforts. Very stupid. The rest of the American defense hasn't been great either, Chorney, Zimmerman, Lee, taking dumb penalties. Overall, if they dont get their defense under control, they just aren't going to do much in this tournament.

The Canadians. Well I'm still a little worried about our offense. Ok, we've been able to score some goals. But at the same time, I'm just not seing a lot of chemistry between any of the scoring lines. They are cycling well in the corner and working hard, but their just isn't much in the way of a solid offensive unit. I don't really like any of the lines at the moment. I'd love to see Toews, Downie and Little play together actually.

Either way, a solid win though.

 

[Ola]

Anyone know if TSN will show a replay of the game on the web, like they did with Swe-Can?

 

[Blind Gardien]

did Mcardle play today for Canada and if so how did he look?. Or was he benched again, which i dont know whats the deal with that.

He had at least one early shift where he showed a lot of energy and had a couple of good hits. But as others have said, he was mostly the spare forward again. As a tie-in with deandebean's comments about Gagner, I think I'd rather see a more permanent shift towards using McArdle as a full-time energy-line player, and bumping Little permanently into carrying more offensive responsibility. Gagner is a fine player and all, and I think we'll be glad next year that he had the chance to see what it's all about this year, but he isn't really ready for this level of competition IMO. He's coming from a system which is totally alien to what Team Canada employs, and he looks a bit out of place.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I think Jack and Erik Johnson will wind up being the two best NHL defencemen from anyone in this tournament. But are they the two best defencemen for a short tournament on international ice? And are two defencemen enough to make a great defence? Those are completely different questions.

When I watch Ryan Parent play, I see the guy who will be Canada's shut down defenceman for years to come. Remember how good Adam Foote was for Canada from 1996 to 2004? That's what Parent's going to be for Canada. He's tailor-made for short tournaments on the big ice. He plays a very poised, intelligent efficient game, he doesn't take a lot of penalties, and he's very mobile for a big defenceman. I'm not saying he's the next Adam Foote, I'm saying Parent will fill that role for Canada. Staal has the potential to be a Scott Hannan type of defenceman.

Also, putting together a great defence isn't just about finding your seven best defencemen. It's about finding the seven defencemen who will play the best in specific roles, and do it while playing in tandems and as a collective unit. That chemistry has made this Canadian defence. I don't think Bourdon, Parent, Staal, Letang or Russell will be perennial NHL all-stars. Yet when you put them together as a group, and mix in guys like Barker last year, or Franson this year, they really come together well, they enjoy playing with each other and for each other.

There's an old cliche in hockey about defence corps "sum being better than the parts." Buffalo in 1999 had it, Tampa in 2003 and 2004 had it, and Carolina had it last year when they won the Cup. Canada's defence in last year's tournament filled that description better than any Team Canada defence I have ever seen, at any tournament. This year's defence appears to be on the same track.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Good effort by both teams.

The American forwards are clearly very talented offensively and seem to be to have better potential to score than the Canadian group. They did a very good job against a tough Canadian defense.

What's killing the Americans is defense though. Their defensive unit is just severely struggling right now. Jack Johnson is a turnover machine and seems to be trying way to hard to make plays happen up the ice right now. Making bad pinches, bad reads and bad passes. He needs to get his act together. Erik Johnson is pretty much the same, seems to be trying to do to much. That was one dumb move to throw his stick there to give Toews that penalty shot. Zatkoff read the play well and made the save. This was with the Americans right there smelling the comeback, and that play single handidly crushed their efforts. Very stupid. The rest of the American defense hasn't been great either, Chorney, Zimmerman, Lee, taking dumb penalties. Overall, if they dont get their defense under control, they just aren't going to do much in this tournament.

The Canadians. Well I'm still a little worried about our offense. Ok, we've been able to score some goals. But at the same time, I'm just not seing a lot of chemistry between any of the scoring lines. They are cycling well in the corner and working hard, but their just isn't much in the way of a solid offensive unit. I don't really like any of the lines at the moment. I'd love to see Toews, Downie and Little play together actually.

Either way, a solid win though.

I haven't been able to watch the game in it's entirety yet, but I have to say I'm pretty surprised defense has been the main problem. I hesitate to question Ron Rolston here, but is he saying anything to the guys about the reckless play? One thing that I don't like about the USNTDP is the egos that are generated. Both Johnsons in particular look as smug as can be. Being put on a pedastal and not being used to failure can be a big problem.

* Not to be inflamatory-but is this generation of American players (many of who developed through the USNTDP) similar to the Russian prima donnas so many of us made fun of in year's past? A lot of individual talent, but not a lot of team success?

 

[supermoon]

I'm thinking

Staal
Parent
Bourdon (these 3 are pretty close)
Letang

Russell



Jack Johnson
Erik Johnson....who throws a stick?


keep in mind im only talking about this tourney

Everybody seems to have a hard-on for Staal. He definitely looked pretty good, but he was -2 today and him being burned on the outside directly lead to that goal were Price was interfered with.

Actually all the Canadian Dmen were negative players today except Letang and Bourdon who were both plus 3. Obviously +/- doesn't always mean a lot, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Souffle]

He had at least one early shift where he showed a lot of energy and had a couple of good hits. But as others have said, he was mostly the spare forward again. As a tie-in with deandebean's comments about Gagner, I think I'd rather see a more permanent shift towards using McArdle as a full-time energy-line player, and bumping Little permanently into carrying more offensive responsibility. Gagner is a fine player and all, and I think we'll be glad next year that he had the chance to see what it's all about this year, but he isn't really ready for this level of competition IMO. He's coming from a system which is totally alien to what Team Canada employs, and he looks a bit out of place.

That's a good point about Little. I get the feeling that he's being under-utilized.

 

[Bandit]

Either a homer, or you don't know much about hockey. The two plays were fundamentally different. Both were US penalties. Or, would've been had Helm not got lucky and scored. The former was a missed call, plain and simple, any way you slice it. Anyone who says different is just incorrect.

non-related p.s. Nice throwing of the stick. Classy. Hadn't seen that in some time - maybe since Atom.

A homer? Where did I complain about either play? All I said was the whining was ridiculous. It's good though that you try & resort to the "you don't know much about hockey" arguement, then come back with "Nice throwing of the stick. Classy." as if I, or anyone else other than Erik Johnson had anything to do with it, but by all means keep complaining. After all, the refs handed the game to the U.S. right? That's why Canada won?

 

[realgoodleafs]

Everybody seems to have a hard-on for Staal. He definitely looked pretty good, but he was -2 today and him being burned on the outside directly lead to that goal were Price was interfered with.

Actually all the Canadian Dmen were negative players today except Letang and Bourdon who were both plus 3. Obviously +/- doesn't always mean a lot, so take it for what it's worth.

Im pretty much using the top three interchangeably, and im also considering both games, if i were only using this game, Letang would definetly be with that pack. He looked much better defensively this game.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Can anyone explain why Brian Lee isn't being used on the PP for the US, not even the 2nd unit? He's a great PP guy, but hasn't played at all this tournament. He also seems to be struggling playing his off-side.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I haven't been able to watch the game in it's entirety yet, but I have to say I'm pretty surprised defense has been the main problem. I hesitate to question Ron Rolston here, but is he saying anything to the guys about the reckless play? One thing that I don't like about the USNTDP is the egos that are generated. Both Johnsons in particular look as smug as can be. Being put on a pedastal and not being used to failure can be a big problem.

* Not to be inflamatory-but is this generation of American players (many of who developed through the USNTDP) similar to the Russian prima donnas so many of us made fun of in year's past? A lot of individual talent, but not a lot of team success?

Tons of indivdual talent and little team success is right on the mark..so far. As far as being up there, or worse than the primadonna's Russia is famous for producing, not even close. the difference hear being, the USA actually works hard. the Russian Primadonna's of years past were ,for lack of a better term pansy's, you'd hit them and they'd crumble, they wouldnt go for the pucks in the corners and gave easy after a relative small pounding. Heck even Ovechkin was bad when he was checked, didnt play all that physical at all, but waht makes ovechkin great is he learned and adjusted when he came to N.A. look back at the last 2 gold medal games, the Russians just crumbled under the intense physical barrage the Canadian put them under, not to mention the skilled play of the 2005 team, that team was something else, ive never seen a team play like that they were simply awesome, no body could match them. back on topic though. the US doesnt give up when the going gets tough, they fight back, and for that they should never be compared to the Russian prima donnas of years past.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Tons of indivdual talent and little team success is right on the mark..so far. As far as being up there, or worse than the primadonna's Russia is famous for producing, not even close. the difference hear being, the USA actually works hard. the Russian Primadonna's of years past were ,for lack of a better term pansy's, you'd hit them and they'd crumble, they wouldnt go for the pucks in the corners and gave easy after a relative small pounding. Heck even Ovechkin was bad when he was checked, didnt play all that physical at all, but waht makes ovechkin great is he learned and adjusted when he came to N.A. look back at the last 2 gold medal games, the Russians just crumbled under the intense physical barrage the Canadian put them under, not to mention the skilled play of the 2005 team, that team was something else, ive never seen a team play like that they were simply awesome, no body could match them. back on topic though. the US doesnt give up when the going gets tough, they fight back, and for that they should never be compared to the Russian prima donnas of years past.

I guess what I'm getting to is IMO there a lot of egos on the U.S. team, and by and large that's a product of the USNTDP system. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the program, but it is an elitist, good ole boy network of the worst order. I don't know, I see something in some of the players (both Johnsons in particular) that strikes me as being "off"). I'd really like to know what Rolston is saying to his players right now.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Glad I didn't tune into the game today. Good decision by me.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I guess what I'm getting to is IMO there a lot of egos on the U.S. team, and by and large that's a product of the USNTDP system. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the program, but it is an elitist, good ole boy network of the worst order. I don't know, I see something in some of the players (both Johnsons in particular) that strikes me as being "off"). I'd really like to know what Rolston is saying to his players right now.

yah, I know nothing of the program other than it is producing some fine high end talent. I do understand what you are getting at, there is nothing worse than an old boy network, much like Team Canada at the Highest Level (look at the Olympic team and the Oilers of old, and current with handing out coaching postions and going for good old Alberta boys over better talent) but I dont think comparing them to the Russians any sense is good, there is not a team i despise more (other than the canucks and flames) than the 2001-2003 Russian WJC teams, they were dirty, selfish, whinny and downright the worst when it came to "lumberjacking" amd diving.