WJC: Dec 27 GDT - Canada 6 USA 3

[therealdeal]

anyone who read this thread during the game probably knows how i picked on Zatkoff, he was horrible in the first 30 minutes of the game. his positioning was awful, played too deep in the net and made bad choices. towards the end he improved. If the US wants to advance, he needs to find his game, or they need to play thier back up.

Did anyone else notice the guy doesn't play the puck out of his crease at all? I haven't seen that in like 5 years. Didn't go behind the net much, didn't go into the corners to pass it to his defenseman coming in, it was bizarre. Whats the other American goalie like, can't be much worse.

 

[Oilslick941611]

which means nothing pretty much.

Considering games arent won on potential, i'd say it means alot. i bet it wont be the last time either of them outclass EJ or JJ during thier career

 

[Ban Hammered]

Considering games arent won on potential, i'd say it means alot. i bet it wont be the last time either of them outclass EJ or JJ during thier career

And EJ and JJ will outclass them at points in their careers too.
What's your point? You can't use a two game sample and say one is better than the other.

 

[espo*]

i think maybe 5% of posts in this forum will be objective. most of the posters are overcome by jingoism that leads them to say things like Staal is better than EJ, or other nonsense

it's not nonsense at all.Staal is a minus 2............no big deal.He's on the ice a lot and playing against the best players all the time in all the toughest situations.........he'll have a minus sometimes.This never takes into account all the great defensive plays the guy made prior to stop numerous goals and dangerous plays from materializing and he and Parent made plenty of them today.Put a lesser d-man in his spot playing the situations he plays and the players he plays against and you might be looking at a minus 10.

You watch the games to know what's going on out there,not the plus minus.When you watch you know.

When a pair of d-men play as well as they do and their team wins playing the type of game Canada has been playing for the last two tournaments(defense first to win) you can be damn sure who the top pairing has been at this tournament the last two years.And Staal has been top notch and is just plain better at this point.


He's cool,strong,reads the play well and keeps the game simple while making a point to play to his strengths.........he does'nt get ahead of himself and panic nor make willy nilly decisions out there,neither does Parent. They've been the two best d-men at this tournament for two years now and that means something.

 

[Oilslick941611]

And EJ and JJ will outclass them at points in their careers too.
What's your point? You can't use a two game sample and say one is better than the other.

the difference between the ej and staal isnt as pronounced as people think. thats my point, in my opinon staal is the better player now, and will be in the future.

 

[Oilslick941611]

it's not nonsense at all.Staal is a minus 2............no big deal.He's on the ice a lot and playing against the best players all the time in all the toughest situations.........he'll have a minus sometimes.This never takes into account all the great defensive plays the guy made prior to stop numerous goals and dangerous plays from materializing and he and Parent made plenty of them today.Put a lesser d-man in his spot playing the situations he plays and the players he plays against and you might be looking at a minus 10.

You watch the games to know what's going on out there,not the plus minus.When you watch you know.

When a pair of d-men play as well as they do and their team wins playing the type of game Canada has been playing for the last two tournaments(defense first to win) you can be damn sure who the top pairing has been at this tournament the last two years.And Staal has been top notch and is just plain better at this point.


He's cool,strong,reads the play well and keeps the game simple while making a point to play to his strengths.........he does'nt get ahead of himself and panic nor make willy nilly decisions out there,neither does Parent. They've been the two best d-men at this tournament for two years now and that means something.

+/- is the worst and most useless stat ever. Sometimes you can be in perfect postion and a weak floater, or fluke gets through the goalie.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Team USA is inept on the power play, they had 3 goals total but never seemed dangerous for extended periods. Does Jack Johnson understand the concept of making simple safe plays? he's been having these problems at Michigan all year. He's got all the physical gifts but I'm starting to wonder about his hockey IQ, he pinches at terrible times and tends to just hog the puck, USA's defense as a group stunk

Canada is a machine their best players step up, and all their top defensemen understand the concept of smart hockey.

 

[espo*]

+/- is the worst and most useless stat ever. Sometimes you can be in perfect postion and a weak floater, or fluke gets through the goalie.

it's a decieving stat sometimes for sure.

i can only go by what i see.I see way more potential in Johnson and Johnson then Staal-Parent but not as good play pound for pound in this tournament despite the hype.Does it mean Staal and Parent will be better players in the long run?........nah.But from all i've seen in this tournament the last two years they are more mature,steady and effective defensemen.Both Johnsons have way more potential and i think they'll likely turn out to be the superior players in the NHL but as of right now i've have'nt seen anything that would suggest to me they are better defensemen right NOW then Staal-Parent.

 

[jaydub*]

Considering games arent won on potential, i'd say it means alot. i bet it wont be the last time either of them outclass EJ or JJ during thier career

that aite though, since EJ and JJ are both superior prospects and will likely have better careers. A guys greatness isn't determined in junior tournies. It is pretty crazy how much stock some people put in these games..they aren't that important in figuring out who is gonna be good in the NHL where it really matters.

 

[Ti-girl]

Helm with the burners!! Meuller hardly looked like he was skating in comparison.

Get Helm to replace Marchand on the top line.

I agree.

I have Helm in my pool, thank GOD. The Red Wings STOLE him in the 5th round.

Helm would look amazing playing next to Cogliano and Downie...

 

[Rise from the Ashes]

Helm is OUTSTANDING!

 

[Randall Graves*]

that aite though, since EJ and JJ are both superior prospects and will likely have better careers. A guys greatness isn't determined in junior tournies. It is pretty crazy how much stock some people put in these games..they aren't that important in figuring out who is gonna be good in the NHL where it really matters.

They may be supperior in terms of physical gifts but those physical gifts lead to the Johnsons perhaps thinking they are better than they are and trying to do too much by themselves. Staal, and especially Parent understand what they are and don't try to go too far beyond that.

 

[Ti-girl]

Helm is OUTSTANDING!

Been saying that since his first year in the Dub. And I stuck behind him all through the summer camp and the evaluation camp.

Good game from a kid who wasn't even supposed to be there.

 

[Lessy]

Been saying that since his first year in the Dub. And I stuck behind him all through the summer camp and the evaluation camp.

Good game from a kid who wasn't even supposed to be there.

He's been awesome in the first two games for sure. One of two players on the team I'd never heard of prior to the tournament and that has certainly changed. I wouldn't mind seeing him get more icetime at even strength although he's a monster on the PK as well. Pierre's comparisons to Kirk Maltby were pretty good I thought however Helm seems to have more footspeed or at least the potential for more speed than Maltby

 

[Ti-girl]

He's been awesome in the first two games for sure. One of two players on the team I'd never heard of prior to the tournament and that has certainly changed. I wouldn't mind seeing him get more icetime at even strength although he's a monster on the PK as well. Pierre's comparisons to Kirk Maltby were pretty good I thought however Helm seems to have more footspeed or at least the potential for more speed than Maltby

He's FAST.

His first year he lacked the foot speed to play on the top line. Willie Desjardiens works WONDERS with kids who "lack footspeed" (ie Clarke MacArthur, Stefan Meyer) and that has been something Darren has been working on.

I'm hoping that after his showing he can get some more ES icetime. Maybe on the 2nd line or even the top line if he keeps working. He also plays along the half boards on the PP.

 

[animalchin]

LOVED seeing the Canucks crush the americans again.

LOVED seeing those so-called superstar dmen on the US squad hang themselves with bone-headed plays.

p.s. fans of other teams must really hate downie, because as a Canadian, he embarasses me. I would rather he was not on the team, personally. Reminds me of Derek Roy or Darcy Tucker...embrassing.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Im a biased Ranger fan yes...but I thought Tom Pyatt played an absolute amazing game and was a top 3 player in the game. He plays all ends of the ice so well (which is why hes on the top PP and PK units).

Loved when he drew that penalty cuz that idiot Zimmerman got mad at him and punched him in the face

Wish I could watch all the Canadian games but since im in the US who dont care about hockey...i cant.

 

[Horse]

Is there somewhere that lists ice time? I quickly scanned the iihf and hockey canada website but couldn't find anything
Thanks

 

[Checker*]

The only time I honestly noticed the Johnsons today was when they were either getting caught pinching, or getting burnt

How about when Erik Johnson scored, were you sleeping then?


Here's all you need to know. When the Blues had both Chris Pronger and Alexander Khavanov, there were periods, games, and maybe one stretch where Khavanov made less mistakes or played better hockey in that limited sample size. But, at the end of the day, one was still Chris Pronger and the other was still Sasha Khavanov. Erik Johnson is still Erik Johnson, the best defensive prospect in hockey. I know that he's an Ameerican, and there are those hypocritical "pompous" Canadian fans who want their boys to be better, but guess what, they're not.

 

[Alison]

So if EJ and JJ have more points than Staal or Parent in the NHL that means that they are the more valuable players to the team? Hardly, people on here tend to forget the term defensive defence men. So these types of d-men play different games but points is not the tell all for a good defence man. Look at McCabe he racks up points but is terrible and always coughs up the puck.
I guess the Rangers turned down the straight up trade offer of JJ for Staal because JJ is soooooo much better .

 

[Checker*]

So if EJ and JJ have more points than Staal or Parent in the NHL that means that they are the more valuable players to the team? Hardly, people on here tend to forget the term defensive defence men. So these types of d-men play different games but points is not the tell all for a good defence man. Look at McCabe he racks up points but is terrible and always coughs up the puck.
I guess the Rangers turned down the straight up trade offer of JJ for Staal because JJ is soooooo much better .

Way to completely miss the point or avoid the issue that you have no answer for.

I know sometimes that the little things players do can go unnoticed, but what kind of fan doesn't notice a player scoring a goal. Give up? One that doesn't want to mention it because it hurts his case that EJ has done nothing right.

 

[espo*]

How about when Erik Johnson scored, were you sleeping then?


Here's all you need to know. When the Blues had both Chris Pronger and Alexander Khavanov, there were periods, games, and maybe one stretch where Khavanov made less mistakes or played better hockey in that limited sample size. But, at the end of the day, one was still Chris Pronger and the other was still Sasha Khavanov. Erik Johnson is still Erik Johnson, the best defensive prospect in hockey. I know that he's an Ameerican, and there are those hypocritical "pompous" Canadian fans who want their boys to be better, but guess what, they're not.

i don't think they are better prospects then the Johnsons but i do think they are better players right now,at least at this tournament.they have been playing better at it the last two years and their team is having sucess while the team the Johnson's are on is not and that says it all.

That's not being pompous at all,just telling it the way it is.if it was the other way around i'd say otherwise,no problem.

 

[Alison]

Way to completely miss the point or avoid the issue that you have no answer for.

I know sometimes that the little things players do can go unnoticed, but what kind of fan doesn't notice a player scoring a goal. Give up? One that doesn't want to mention it because it hurts his case that EJ has done nothing right.

Where did I say he has done nothing right? Read again. I said many are putting stock in these defence-men's ability to score. All right fine, they can score but are they doing there job defensivly?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

i don't think they are better prospects then the Johnsons but i do think they are better players right now,at least at this tournament.they have been playing better at it the last two years and their team is having sucess while the team the Johnson's are on is not and that says it all.

That's not being pompous at all,just telling it the way it is.if it was the other way around i'd say otherwise,no problem.

I would agree that Staal and Parent are playing better than the two Johnsons right now, and I think the main reason is because they're keeping it simple. Someone needs to tell Erik and Jack that they can't expect to run around like wannabe Bobby Orrs and still play solid defense. I know that kind of ability will be an asset in a long NHL (or college) season, but in a short tournament it can (and has been) disasterous. We'll see if they adjust.

 

[Checker*]

i don't think they are better prospects then the Johnsons but i do think they are better players right now,at least at this tournament.they have been playing better at it the last two years and their team is having sucess while the team the Johnson's are on is not and that says it all.

That's not being pompous at all,just telling it the way it is.if it was the other way around i'd say otherwise,no problem.

Pompous was in reference to a post like 29 pages back which made reference to "beating those pompous Americans". I don't disagree that the Johnson's are having a rough tournament, but it's only one tournament. For the Gophers, Johnson has been doing pretty much what was expected of him. Also, most of these posts have made it sound as if EJ has done nothing right. Sure he has had some head in the sand moments, but he's also had some pretty nice moments as well. As far as players like Staal are concerned, you're darn right I wish they were a part of the organization I root for. But I am happy having Erik Johnson.