Who's better Tavares or Stamkos?

[slackerjack]

The thing I keep hearing about Stamkos is his combination of speed and hands. The best quote I've heard was from Al Murray (Team Canada Scout) in the Globe and Mail a few days ago:

"It's something a little more than that. So many players come over the line and gain space and then they slow down to make their plays. He makes passes or creates scoring passes for himself at high speed and that's really unusual.

He's like those Bugs Bunny cartoons where he's everywhere. You look out and he's the first guy in on the forecheck and then you see the play coming back to your own zone and he's the first guy back to his own net to cover his check."

Sounds like a very complete player.

 

[slackerjack]

I guess but tell that to Dave Bolland and Brett MaClean....dominance is fickle

Not sure I see your point?

Nothing wrong with Bolland's game so far. Were people expecting him to be an instant 100 point man in the NHL?

Maclean looks like he's getting better this year. He doesn't take a regular shift with Tavares, so he's not riding on JT's coat tails. On the other hand, this likely means he's not going up against the best checking line either. And he likely plays the power play with Tavares as well.

Still 35 goals and 64 points in 26 games is pretty impressive, even for an overaged junior. Unless he is extremely slow, Phoenix looks like they got themselves a good player.

 

[massivegoonery]

Oh by the way, your boy Kane appears to have hit a bit of a wall since other teams have figured out that all they have to do is lay the body on him and he folds his tent. Toews has been outplaying him by a wide margin for quite a while now. When was the last time that Kane actually potted one? At the rate that Toews is putting them up, he'll have passed Kane in total points by early January at the latest. In 2 fewer games played, Toews has already scored 5 more goals than Kane... despite playing the early part of the season with a hand injury!

Toews is going to score more goals than Kane, because he has Kane to set him up. Kane, unfortunately, lacks this.

eta: I'm higher on Stamkos at the moment in the sense that I think he's going to be an impact player sooner than Tavares. That is to say, I think Stamkos is going to put up nearly a point a game or so in his first season, while Tavares may take a while to get his goal-scoring up to a really prolific pace. I think Tavares probably has a higher upside, but from an expected return perspective, I think Stamkos has a the higher probability of hitting a slightly lower potential and a higher net present value.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

tavares= lemieux
stamkos= sakic

 

[Gump Hasek]

Toews is going to score more goals than Kane, because he has Kane to set him up. Kane, unfortunately, lacks this.

Disagree with your assessment, Toews can dish the puck with the best of them.

In addition, Toews has the size and wherewithal to take the puck right to the net - where the dirty work is done. Kane, unfortunately, lacks this.

 

[Dave D]

Disagree with your assessment, Toews can dish the puck with the best of them.

In addition, Toews has the size and wherewithal to take the puck right to the net - where the dirty work is done. Kane, unfortunately, lacks this.

I can appreciate your love for Toews, but he is far from an elite playmaker - 1 even strength assist. At the moment he is playing a lot closer to a 3rd line checker than he is a #1 center - granted that's part of his development - but Kane is in another league - Toews will not see Kane's level off offensive ability in his career. Great player, but not close to Kane in offensive skill, imagination or effectiveness.

 

[Redwingsfan]

I can appreciate your love for Toews, but he is far from an elite playmaker - 1 even strength assist. At the moment he is playing a lot closer to a 3rd line checker than he is a #1 center - granted that's part of his development - but Kane is in another league - Toews will not see Kane's level off offensive ability in his career. Great player, but not close to Kane in offensive skill, imagination or effectiveness.

3rd line checker??? LOL.

have you seen him play?? he has been one of the go to guys for the blackhawks this season....

 

[Dave D]

3rd line checker??? LOL.

have you seen him play?? he has been one of the go to guys for the blackhawks this season....

Watch for the number of times he dumps the puck in at the OBL when there is space to either walk it across or make a play. I have watched him play, and players who are thinking offensively, don't dump the puck in when they have space to make plays - that's what checkers do. His needless dumping of the puck is reflective of his defensive mindset at this stage in his development. He is very conscious of his defensive responsibilities right now and rightfully so. I look forward to when he gains more confidence to make plays 5 on 5. You'll notice he's more effective in PP situations offensively - 5 on 5 he's still tenative to make plays - 1 even strength assist is hardly a go-to offensive player.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Watch for the number of times he dumps the puck in at the OBL when there is space to either walk it across or make a play. I have watched him play, and players who are thinking offensively, don't dump the puck in when they have space to make plays - that's what checkers do. His needless dumping of the puck is reflective of his defensive mindset at this stage in his development. He is very conscious of his defensive responsibilities right now and rightfully so. I look forward to when he gains more confidence to make plays 5 on 5. You'll notice he's more effective in PP situations offensively - 5 on 5 he's still tenative to make plays - 1 even strength assist is hardly a go-to offensive player.

i disagree with you, the dumps may have been at the end of he's shift or something, i dont know. but the games i have seen. he has been very willing to carry the puck into the offensive zone...

and i just checked he's stats...

in 28 games...

PP: 4 goals, 10 assists, 14 points

ES: 8 goals, 2 assists, 10 points

maybe he needs some work on he's playmaking 5 on 5, but kane usually handles that. and 8 goals on ES isnt bad at all.

 

[BlackAces*]

i disagree with you, the dumps may have been at the end of he's shift or something, i dont know. but the games i have seen. he has been very willing to carry the puck into the offensive zone...

and i just checked he's stats...

in 28 games...

PP: 4 goals, 10 assists, 14 points

ES: 8 goals, 2 assists, 10 points

maybe he needs some work on he's playmaking 5 on 5, but kane usually handles that. and 8 goals on ES isnt bad at all.

Amen, Toews is right now, and will be through out his career, the superior player.

Bigger, stronger, smarter, better hands, better playmaker, future captain.

Kane hasn't scored in over a month, and it seems teams have figured out not only that he can't take the physicality, but what he does when he gets the puck.

 

[leafmon]

Well yah but maybe at 15 years old Tavares has the body of a 17.5 year old...then once Tavares hit's 17.5 years old he's only improved to 18 years old...MEaning that he really developed 2 and a half years ahead when he was younger....and now that he's getting to be closer to his draft date....other kids, older then him, younger then him....in and around the same age as him aren't looking as inferior...

I guess that's one person theory........
Tavares biggest problem is having done too much at a early age. Alls that seems to do around here is have a bunch of people nitpick or try and be the first one to say you are going to be a bust. Course in this case the facts just don't back it up.

 

[Firewagon]

youngest in the whole tourney by about six months, in fact.

Not quite. Sweden has Hedman (Dec 91) and a 91 playing in the SEL.

Magnus Svensson Paajarvi L 6'2 198 04/12/91 Timra IK

 

[BlackAces*]

I guess that's one person theory........
Tavares biggest problem is having done too much at a early age. Alls that seems to do around here is have a bunch of people nitpick or try and be the first one to say you are going to be a bust. Course in this case the facts just don't back it up.

Bingo...seems to me it would have hit him harder as a barely 16-17 year old when he tore the league up last year (his second year) and broke Gretzky's record...rather than him being a year older...in fact, that would probably make a case for the exact opposite arguement, as he is getting older and bigger, and he is playing against younger guys.

Ridiculous arguement

 

[sweatypickle]

Watch for the number of times he dumps the puck in at the OBL when there is space to either walk it across or make a play. I have watched him play, and players who are thinking offensively, don't dump the puck in when they have space to make plays - that's what checkers do. His needless dumping of the puck is reflective of his defensive mindset at this stage in his development.

You do realize the coach decides whether they dump it or carry it in right?

 

[Timeless Winter]

Can anyone who's seen them both play live offer an unbiased comparison????

 

[ryz]

Stamkos will be the next Joe Sakic

Write it down.

I thought we were saying that about Turris already?

 

[massivegoonery]

Amen, Toews is right now, and will be through out his career, the superior player.

Bigger, stronger, smarter, better hands, better playmaker, future captain.

Kane hasn't scored in over a month, and it seems teams have figured out not only that he can't take the physicality, but what he does when he gets the puck.

Kane giftwraps goals for his linemates. He is, and will continue to be, the better playmaker of the two.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

The best 91 is Rajala. He's gonna be a better Patrick Kane. Write that down.

 

[PuckheadMcGillycuddy]

The best 91 is Rajala. He's gonna be a better Patrick Kane. Write that down.

That's funny, oh myopic Finnish fanboy, because ISS currently has him as only the ninth-best '91-born forward, and only the second-best Finnish-born '91 forward behind Joonas Nattinen.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Watch for the number of times he dumps the puck in at the OBL when there is space to either walk it across or make a play. I have watched him play, and players who are thinking offensively, don't dump the puck in when they have space to make plays - that's what checkers do. His needless dumping of the puck is reflective of his defensive mindset at this stage in his development. He is very conscious of his defensive responsibilities right now and rightfully so. I look forward to when he gains more confidence to make plays 5 on 5. You'll notice he's more effective in PP situations offensively - 5 on 5 he's still tenative to make plays - 1 even strength assist is hardly a go-to offensive player.

Playing for Brent Sutter probably had a hand in this. Mastering the Dump 'N' Chase is what has Canada's juniors on top of the world for umpteen years straight.

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

Not quite. Sweden has Hedman (Dec 91) and a 91 playing in the SEL.

Magnus Svensson Paajarvi L 6'2 198 04/12/91 Timra IK

Puckhead was saying Tavares was the youngest player in the Super Series, not in the upcoming World Junior Championship.

 

[PuckheadMcGillycuddy]

Not quite. Sweden has Hedman (Dec 91) and a 91 playing in the SEL.

Magnus Svensson Paajarvi L 6'2 198 04/12/91 Timra IK

In addition to Scribe being correct about me referring to the Super Series, Hedman is a Dec. '90 b-day, not '91.

 

[PuckheadMcGillycuddy]

Additionally, it's not entirely accurate to say that Paajarvi is "playing in the SEL" which would infer that he's a full-timer there. To this point, he's played 14 games in the Elitserien (0 goals, 1 assist), 12 games for Timra's U20 team in the SuperElit (7 goals, 10 assists), and 5 games for Timra's U18 team in the J18 Elit (1 goal, 6 assists).

 

[Joretus]

That's funny, oh myopic Finnish fanboy, because ISS currently has him as only the ninth-best '91-born forward, and only the second-best Finnish-born '91 forward behind Joonas Nattinen.

That's funny, since Nättinen has played allmost whole season in B-juniors, while Rajala has played against A-juniors with 1ppg. While Nättinen has played 5 games in A-juniors with 0+1 -2. In B-juniors Nättinen is a bit over 1ppg, while Rajala had last year with 1,5ppg. For me it seems ISS haven't really seen much(if any) games from Rajala in Finland at least when compared to Nättinen.

And not saying anything about Kane vs Rajala, but Rajala have been CLEARLY better than Nättinen whole season, Rajala has clearly more potential and since he isn't having so big frame as Nättinen he has to use other tools as well.

Btw. I have seen 10+ games of Rajala and he really has huge potential, best 16y I have seen in ages from Finland.

 

[Scharnhorst]

For what its worth, Pierre McGuire called Stamkos a 'mini-crosby'... I don't know if I would read too much into that, seeing as it is Pierre...