Who's better Tavares or Stamkos?

[Qubax]

I guess but tell that to Dave Bolland and Brett MaClean....dominance is fickle

 

[leftofcenter]

there's a chance that Tavares might not make the squad - too many good players and lines. He hasn't exactly helped his cause. But I think worse case scenario is he is taken as a last/4th line player

 

[Blind Gardien]

Compared to other years top draft picks Stamkos seems quite overrated. Much of it has to do with the inbred nature of the board.

Stamkos would have been below:

Ovechkin
Crosby
EJ
Kane

...and unless there's an implosion..

Tavares

I don't see Stamkos being below Kane by any stretch. Kane has had a great progression through his draft year and continuing into the NHL. But using some kind of time warp machine that precluded one from knowing how quickly Kane would step up, I think most scouts would have taken Stamkos ahead of him at draft age. Kane may very well turn out to have been the smarter pick in the long run, but I don't think he would have been above Stamkos in the context of this drafting question.

I believe there is still a window of opportunity for the Stamkos/Tavares comparison to shift into either player's favour. But probably not definitively either way. It will probably be a mixed bag of opinion up until we actually see them in the NHL. And likely even beyond. Unless as you say there's an implosion.

 

[Blind Gardien]

there's a chance that Tavares might not make the squad - too many good players and lines. He hasn't exactly helped his cause. But I think worse case scenario is he is taken as a last/4th line player

Well, sometimes as fans we even take the selection camp _too_ seriously. As much as it's hyped as the do-or-die moment for all the players, I think a player who has been in the centre of HC's gameplans for a while still has to stumble fairly noticeably to get left behind.

Just like you can't look at the goalies and say the one who lets in the most goals will be cut. It hasn't always happened that way.

Tavares could impress some folks by demonstrating his two-way dilligence and versatility moreso than by scoring. We know he can score. We know he can play in the offensive zone. When he proves (as he has been doing so far this season in the OHL) that he can also be a key player on faceoffs and the PK units, well, even if there are no goals on the board in a couple of intrasquad scrimmages, he may well be making a good case for himself. (I say this having absolutely no idea what's going on in the camp, of course).

 

[phil macrackin]

I see it playing out this way in the NHL:

Tavares=Spezza
Stamkos=Parise

 

[johnny canuckistan]

Tavares = Bossy/Nieuwendyk
Stamkos = ?

Stamkos, I reckon, will be good for 40 goals and 100 points in the NHL once he hits his prime. He'll also be an excellent two-way player.

Tavares should be good for 50 goals, and at least a 100 points. However, I don't think he's as defensively responsible as Stamkos.

Of the two, I guess I would prefer to have JT, but I wouldn't be surprised if Stamkos has a more productive career in terms of championships because of his balanced game.

 

[Blind Gardien]

Tavares = Bossy/Nieuwendyk
Stamkos = ?

Stamkos, I reckon, will be good for 40 goals and 100 points in the NHL once he hits his prime. He'll also be an excellent two-way player.

Tavares should be good for 50 goals, and at least a 100 points. However, I don't think he's as defensively responsible as Stamkos.

Of the two, I guess I would prefer to have JT, but I wouldn't be surprised if Stamkos has a more productive career in terms of championships because of his balanced game.

I think Tavares has shown just as much balance and two-way inclination this year as Stamkos. Except... he doesn't have the speed to get himself back as well either, so even if the responsibility is there, it might not be as effective in practical application for him.

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

All the talk this week has been about Steven Stamkos!!

No

Tavares is a generational talent.

Stamkos is not.

That is not a knock on Stamkos, he is a great player, but Tavares has a much higher ceiling.

It takes more than two days of tryouts at a world junior camp to determine the answer to the OP's question.

As for the gap between the two, it's not as wide as some think. Stamkos is a dandy. He could be a player in the Yzerman/Sakic range. Great speed, great hands, great hockey sense, great determination. I wouldn't sell him short.

One thing is sure. Stamkos will be a flashier player than Tavares and that alone will make people think Stamkos is better.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well yah but maybe at 15 years old Tavares has the body of a 17.5 year old...then once Tavares hit's 17.5 years old he's only improved to 18 years old...MEaning that he really developed 2 and a half years ahead when he was younger....and now that he's getting to be closer to his draft date....other kids, older then him, younger then him....in and around the same age as him aren't looking as inferior...

This makes no sense.

 

[Ti-girl]

This makes no sense.

Actually it does.

What he's saying is that Tavares was a very early grower and physically matured faster than his counterparts. Now they're catching up. He still may be better than them, but the gap isn't as noticable.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

No he's not.

Who are you to say he is and is not?

 

[Blind Gardien]

Actually it does.

What he's saying is that Tavares was a very early grower and physically matured faster than his counterparts. Now they're catching up. He still may be better than them, but the gap isn't as noticable.

Well, if "physically matured" is based mostly on height and weight, I guess. But Tavares' legs, balance, and footspeed were still pretty weak from the get-go. He's the one doing the catching up in those areas of physical maturation.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Actually it does.

What he's saying is that Tavares was a very early grower and physically matured faster than his counterparts. Now they're catching up. He still may be better than them, but the gap isn't as noticable.

same as it was with jesse joensuu. he was a top ranked player for the 06 draft a year before the draft but fell like a rock because the other kids caught up with him..

 

[Redwingsfan]

I see it playing out this way in the NHL:

Tavares=Spezza
Stamkos=Parise

WHAT???

why??

i see him as a better version of dany heatley..

 

[BillHicks]

Stamkos will be the next Joe Sakic

Write it down.

 

[The Scouting Report]

Stamkos will be a lot better then JT on an Olympic sized surface. However on the NHL surfaces Tavares is significantly better then Stamkos in all three zones.

 

[johnny canuckistan]

I think Tavares has shown just as much balance and two-way inclination this year as Stamkos. Except... he doesn't have the speed to get himself back as well either, so even if the responsibility is there, it might not be as effective in practical application for him.

Fair enough. Now that St. Mike's has moved to Mississauga I never get to see any OHL games, so I'm a little bit in the dark. I'm looking forward to Sportsnet showing some CHL games come January ( I presume they'll do that again.)

 

[willie]

Fair enough. Now that St. Mike's has moved to Mississauga I never get to see any OHL games, so I'm a little bit in the dark. I'm looking forward to Sportsnet showing some CHL games come January ( I presume they'll do that again.)

Yep. And you'll get the marquee matchup of Stamkos vs Tavares on the evening of January 20th.

The schedule floating around is:

Sun 12/30/07 National #1 Prince Albert@Edmonton
Sun 01/06/08 National #2 Quebec@Victoriaville
Wed 01/09/08 WHL Regional #1 Saskatoon@Red Deer
Sun 01/13/08 National #3 Edmonton@Calgary
Wed 01/16/08 WHL Regional #2 Kootenay@Edmonton
Fri 01/18/08 OHL Regional #2 Niagara@Sarnia
Sun 01/20/08 National #4 Sarnia@Oshawa
Wed 01/23/08 Top Prospects TBA TBA
Fri 01/25/08 OHL Regional #3 Belleville@ Kitchener
Sun 01/27/08 National # 5 Sarnia@Niagara
Fri 02/01/08 OHL Regional #4 Guelph@Sarnia
Fri 02/06/08 OHL Regional #5 OHL All Star Game
Sun 02/10/08 National #6 St. John@Drummondville
Tue 02/12/08 OHL Regional #6 London@Kitchener
Wed 02/13/08 WHL Regional #3 Brandon@Vancouver
Fri 02/15/08 OHL Regional #7 Brampton@Oshawa
Fri 02/22/08 OHL Regional #8 Belleville@ Kingston
Sun 02/24/08 National #7 Kelowna@Vancouver
Wed 02/27/08 WHL Regional #4 Kamloops@Regina
Sun 03/02/08 National #8 Ottawa@Oshawa
Sun 03/09/08 National #9 Lethbridge@Calgary
Sun 03/16/08 National #10 Chicoutimi@Quebec

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Stamkos will be the next Joe Sakic

Write it down.

...on the list?


Toews, Gaborik, Turris, Stamkos, etc...

 

[Gump Hasek]

Compared to other years top draft picks Stamkos seems quite overrated. Much of it has to do with the inbred nature of the board.

Stamkos would have been below:

Ovechkin
Crosby
EJ
Kane

...and unless there's an implosion..

Tavares

Hey 5mm

Inbred nature of the board? I guess that would include those who state unequivocally that a prospect would have been drafted below players years older than him, or for that matter that Stamkos would have been drafted below two unproven Americans.... were they the same age. You are comparing apples to oranges. Had Stamkos enjoyed the luxury of the sort of higher caliber teammates that Kane played with in London, he would have posted equal or better numbers. Also, Kane was an 18 y/o rookie in the OHL versus Stamkos at 16.

Oh by the way, your boy Kane appears to have hit a bit of a wall since other teams have figured out that all they have to do is lay the body on him and he folds his tent. Toews has been outplaying him by a wide margin for quite a while now. When was the last time that Kane actually potted one? At the rate that Toews is putting them up, he'll have passed Kane in total points by early January at the latest. In 2 fewer games played, Toews has already scored 5 more goals than Kane... despite playing the early part of the season with a hand injury!

But I digress.


Last year, some scouts stated at the time that were Tavares, Stamkos, & Doughty available in the draft last year, they would have gone 1/2/3 in some order or another. So much for your theory that this is a weak draft year.

Stamkos reminds me a bit of a young Iginla - for lack of a similar comparison.

 

[bohlmeister]

Well isn't this a thread of outlandish proclaimations!
Just for the record, and i have only seen him play at the WJC's, Tavares hasn't really impressed me. He doesn't seem to have the work ethic that you need to be the "next" anything. I have not seen an OHL game though, and I may be completely wrong.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Just for the record, and i have only seen him play at the WJC's, Tavares hasn't really impressed me.

He has yet to even play in the WJHC. This will be his first year. If you are referring to the Super Series, he finished second in scoring for Team Canada... despite the fact that he was the youngest player on the team.

 

[AlMo]

Stamkos will be the next Joe Sakic

Write it down.

No he won't!

 

[PuckheadMcGillycuddy]

He has yet to even play in the WJHC. This will be his first year. If you are referring to the Super Series, he finished second in scoring for Team Canada... despite the fact that he was the youngest player on the team.

youngest in the whole tourney by about six months, in fact.

 

[Boomhower]

I guess but tell that to Dave Bolland and Brett MaClean....dominance is fickle

What? How does Dave Bolland relate to any of this?

He wasn't dominant at a young age (scored under 10 goals as 16 year old in the OHL) and as a 19 year old Bolland was 3rd or 4th on his own junior TEAM in scoring, certainly not dominant.


Dave Bolland has always been a great player and is currently a prospect with a lot of upside, but again how does he realte to dominance?