Who will win the Selke trophy?

[1specter]

Bergeron. Guy is just unreal defensively

 

[1specter]

What 100 points? He is not Connor McDavid but yeah maybe 100 points in two seasons. Matthews is not as good defensively than Barkov, Kopitar, Bergeron, Koivu, Kesler etc so I don't see him in this discussion.

Don't take the bait.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Jeeze, at least most Leaf fans know when they're being baited.

Sorry didn't realize it was a "new" account made for specific purposes.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

For me it’d have to be Kopitar right now, he is just absolutely dominant on ether side of the puck right now.

 

[Baxterman]

As of now I would say Kopitar followed by Couturier and then Bergeron.

As long as its not Barkov I don't really care who wins.

 

[wintersej]

Couts, Barkov and Point seem to be the "next class". Don't think any of them are able to supplant Bergeron, yet. Wouldn't be shocked if any of those guys get a nomination, though. Defensively, Bergeron is still just operating at a different level.

He IS getting way more offensive zone starts under Cassidy than under Julien. He is still the top match up guy on the team, obviously, but he is playing the most he ever has. Basically, if the Bruins get an offensive zone draw, Marchand/Bergeron/Pastrnak hop over the boards in addition to their "shadow" assignments. These are "extra" minutes, not signifying a shift in how much the team relies on Bergeron defensively.

 

[wintersej]

For me it’d have to be Kopitar right now, he is just absolutely dominant on ether side of the puck right now.

Corsi %
Bergeron: 59%
Kopitar: 51%

CA/60
Bergeron: 48
Kopitar: 57


Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 1.15
Kopitar: 1.88

Expected Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 2.22
Kopitar: 2.46

Fail to see the argument for Kopitar. I love Kopitar, but I also don't stay up that late so I only have the numbers, which pretty dramatically do NOT make the case for Kopitar. Can you explain? (really asking, not being a dick)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who's **** talking Kopitar in this thread?

The dude in the previous page saying Bergeron deserves all of them and subtly talking down Kesler and Kopitar's wins.

Corsi %
Bergeron: 59%
Kopitar: 51%

CA/60
Bergeron: 48
Kopitar: 57


Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 1.15
Kopitar: 1.88

Expected Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 2.22
Kopitar: 2.46

Fail to see the argument for Kopitar. I love Kopitar, but I also don't stay up that late so I only have the numbers, which pretty dramatically do NOT make the case for Kopitar. Can you explain? (really asking, not being a dick)

Frankly, it would be tough to make one with strictly metrics. All of his numbers are also really good relative to team especially considering Kopi's zone starts, but Bergeron's are mostly absurd. Kopitar's got much more difficult zone starts especially relative to team (Bergeron starting 40.5% in the Ozone, 5.64 relZSR vs. Kopitar's 30.26 Ozone starts, -3.57 relZSR)(Bergeron playing with Marchand with a lot of o-zone starts), a TOI QOC% of 30.27, (Bergy 30.14), plays about 1:20 more per game (2nd in ToI amongst forwards), but again, Bergeron's numbers relative to team are sparkling. This is the most dominant Kopitar has EVER been, including in his Selke year, at both ends, so I'm pretty certain the case is being based more on visuals than metrics, but as you say, doubt many people are getting to watch much of both. It's also tough because the Kings' possession metrics as a team have fallen off the map. I'd have to shade towards Bergeron at this point for that reason alone, but just like I get red-faced in the Norris threads when people have a default winner, I dislike people auto-discounting Kopitar simply because Bergeron is awesome. I think this one is going to have to play out for the season (I think the Bs will make it, ut let's also not forget playoff team award bias).

 

[b in vancouver]

Jesus Christ. Kopitar didn't deserve the Selke, Doughty didn't deserve the Norris...are we gonna pull Williams' Conn Smythe so we can give it to Lundqvist now too?

Starting to think we should add 'time zone' to profiles.

I'm PST. - Vancouver. Best friend is a Kings fan. Kopitar is amazing - he is. He disappears at times - but when he's on his game there's few players better in the league.

Corsi %
Bergeron: 59%
Kopitar: 51%

CA/60
Bergeron: 48
Kopitar: 57


Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 1.15
Kopitar: 1.88

Expected Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 2.22
Kopitar: 2.46

Fail to see the argument for Kopitar. I love Kopitar, but I also don't stay up that late so I only have the numbers, which pretty dramatically do NOT make the case for Kopitar. Can you explain? (really asking, not being a dick)

I live in Vancouver. Friend of mine is actually a life-long Kings fan back to the Triple Crown day -and I'll watch them with him sometimes. Kopitar is amazing. He is. I think you can make an argument for him for the Hart Trophy today.

But I still think he's a notch below Bergeron defensively. That's not a knock on Kopitar - it's just how amazing Bergeron actually is defensively. Probably the best match-up defensive forward I've ever seen. Stats tell you part of the story, watching him out there is a treat as he passes every eye-test - but another one is that fans of other teams will complain how their 1st line played their worst game, how they couldn't execute a pass, get any zone time and kept turning it over. It's a broken record when teams play Boston.

 

[Jauffre]

Kevin Hayes

 

[NyQuil]

9 posts. I had guessed 5 posts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm PST. - Vancouver. Best friend is a Kings fan. Kopitar is amazing - he is. He disappears at times - but when he's on his game there's few players better in the league.

I live in Vancouver. Friend of mine is actually a life-long Kings fan back to the Triple Crown day -and I'll watch them with him sometimes. Kopitar is amazing. He is. I think you can make an argument for him for the Hart Trophy today.

But I still think he's a notch below Bergeron defensively. That's not a knock on Kopitar - it's just how amazing Bergeron actually is defensively. Probably the best match-up defensive forward I've ever seen. Stats tell you part of the story, watching him out there is a treat as he passes every eye-test - but another one is that fans of other teams will complain how their 1st line played their worst game, how they couldn't execute a pass, get any zone time and kept turning it over. It's a broken record when teams play Boston.

So then why retroactively remove Kopitar's and Kesler's Selke Awards? It's absurd. Even if Bergeron is the best, it doesn't mean he always has the single best year.

 

[wintersej]

So then why retroactively remove Kopitar's and Kesler's Selke Awards? It's absurd. Even if Bergeron is the best, it doesn't mean he always has the single best year.

I also have no problem with "career achievement" awards for the Selke (or Norris for that matter) when you are splitting hairs between guys. Kopitar deserved to get AT LEAST one Selke in his career. Maybe even Kesler, too. No, screw Kesler .

I just want Bergeron to get one more so he has the most ever before he legitimately doesn't belong on the short list anymore .

 

[Sheppy]

Kopitar or Bergeron

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I also have no problem with "career achievement" awards for the Selke (or Norris for that matter) when you are splitting hairs between guys. Kopitar deserved to get AT LEAST one Selke in his career. Maybe even Kesler, too. No, screw Kesler .

I just want Bergeron to get one more so he has the most ever before he legitimately doesn't belong on the short list anymore .

I don't think that's gonna be a problem!

 

[Appleyard]

Bergeron

Couturier and Kopitar completing the top 3.

 

[lexlavender]

I'd vote Bergeron, Kopitar has visually been good defensively but metrics are lacking. But I think it's worth saying the metrics are lacking because the Kings as a whole have been focusing a lot more on shot quality this season rather than quantity, as seen over the past few years. So those CF% are deflated when compared to perceived possession because the team as a whole is giving up shooting opportunities to look for a scoring chance.

It also should be mentioned that while our Defense is solid on paper this season, our transition out of the zone is crap. Simply put, our D line-up gives up a lot of shots. It's also worth noting that our CF% close is still top 6 in the league, so there are scoring effects involved as well.

If Kopitar and Bergeron switched teams, I'm sure Kopitar would have similar possession numbers to Bergeron. It's not like Kopitar in general hasn't been a top 3 possession forward over the last 5 years.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Matthews is just as good defensively if not better than Barkov, his defense often gets overlooked because he puts up so many points.

He's also the best goalie in the NHL too.

And coach.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Came in here to look for a Matthews mention....

Was quicker than I expected

 

[MikeBabcock]

He's also the best goalie in the NHL too.

And coach.

You forgot GM.

 

[bob27]

I'd vote Bergeron, Kopitar has visually been good defensively but metrics are lacking. But I think it's worth saying the metrics are lacking because the Kings as a whole have been focusing a lot more on shot quality this season rather than quantity, as seen over the past few years. So those CF% are deflated when compared to perceived possession because the team as a whole is giving up shooting opportunities to look for a scoring chance.

It also should be mentioned that while our Defense is solid on paper this season, our transition out of the zone is crap. Simply put, our D line-up gives up a lot of shots. It's also worth noting that our CF% close is still top 6 in the league, so there are scoring effects involved as well.

If Kopitar and Bergeron switched teams, I'm sure Kopitar would have similar possession numbers to Bergeron. It's not like Kopitar in general hasn't been a top 3 possession forward over the last 5 years.

I think Bergeron's relative Corsi is somewhere around +8-9%, which is crazy high for a sustained period of time. Bergeron turns Bruins from an average Corsi team to an elite Corsi team by himself.

 

[Fondue]

Anze Kopidor**

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Corsi %
Bergeron: 59%
Kopitar: 51%

CA/60
Bergeron: 48
Kopitar: 57


Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 1.15
Kopitar: 1.88

Expected Goals Allowed/60
Bergeron: 2.22
Kopitar: 2.46

Fail to see the argument for Kopitar. I love Kopitar, but I also don't stay up that late so I only have the numbers, which pretty dramatically do NOT make the case for Kopitar. Can you explain? (really asking, not being a dick)

For me and my opinion its all eye test, not looking at metrics. Watching Kopitar play right now is just a thing of beauty if you are a fan of a two way game. Not saying I'm right or wrong, just watching him play at the moment gets him my vote.

 

[Pay Carl]

Kadri? Get out of here.

Corsi %
47%

CA/60
66

Goals Allowed/60
2.78

Expected Goals Allowed/60
2.64

Has the second worst CF% on the Leafs for forwards

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think Bergeron's relative Corsi is somewhere around +8-9%, which is crazy high for a sustained period of time. Bergeron turns Bruins from an average Corsi team to an elite Corsi team by himself.

I'm not saying Bergeron isn't amazing by himself, but the WOWY stats show him and Marchand are clear amplifiers of each other.

Bergeron without Marchand is 53.94%, Marchand without Bergeron is 52.98%. Together, they're an absurd 61.93% With both off, the Bruins are 50.31.