Which is a worse trade: The Sergachev trade or the Subban trade?

[Mrb1p]

Gainey: Trades a top pairing defense man - is an all around nice guy who has tragedy strike - gets ripped to shreds.

Bergevin: Trades two franchise defensemen - is a pompous ass - gets defended and called a victim.


Can’t make this **** up

Yes you can, look at their names. Look at who is mostly defending him. It all comes from the Bell sphere of influence.

 

[Price is Wright]

I suspect Montreal didn't have the available pieces to get him.

Murphy and Dauphin. I haven't watched enough of either player to say if Montreal did or not.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Murphy and Dauphin. I haven't watched enough of either player to say if Montreal did or not.

Murphy is a big 24 year old NHL defenceman. I'm not a fan personally, but Montreal didn't/doesn't have a comparable piece. Dauphin is a 22 year old Center prospect with size. You could probably compare McCarron or DLR to him. I don't think Montreal had comparable pieces, so you have to wonder who Chicago may have wanted. Especially since Chicago probably wanted a young D-man coming the other way that they could plug into their line-up.

 

[cphabs]

PK's in the top 4 D in the league along with Doughty, Karlsson and Hedman. After that there's a drop off. The biggest myth about PK was that he was weak defensively. That was never true. It wasn't a coincidence that in his first playoff the Canadiens surprised Ovechkin's Capitals and Crosby's Penguins to make it to the ECF. This didn't change when he went to Nashville and shut down the Hawks top line and then the Blues top line in last year's playoffs. Probably would have won a Cup if Rinne wasn't lousy in Game 1 and 2. Josi is good but he doesn't get the heavy minutes against the big boys in the west. Nobody ever said he was "the Mario Lemieux of D men" and nobody says he's in the class of the all-time greats just yet but if you think he's isn't in the top 4 right now you don't know the game you're watching.

The "game" I'm watching has Sergachev on track to destroy Subban's best season... as a 19 year old from Russia in his rookie season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, OEL, Pie, Josi and Letang are all better than him. Sorry.

That "sorry" as if you were stating a fact, you the great purveyor of truth.

Gimme a break. Just the fact you put Letang tells me you don't know what you're talking about. He plays with two generational talents at center who have won a entire cup run without him. Ever ponder on how many points guys like PK and Doughty would get playing with these two? And inversely, how Letang would've faired in Montreal in PK's place with the pea shooters we've had when PK was here? Same for Hedman, played with a fully loaded offense.

See: Brent Burns. I warned people who put him on a pedestal in the last two seasons. Now with Big Joe in the twilight of his career and Marleau gone, suddenly people like you don't mention him anymore. Some dmen make other players better and some become better when they are well surrounded. PK, Doughty and Karlsson are the former, the rest are not. But I wouldnt expect you to understand this, considering your long standing bias against PK.

Pietrangelo is a playoff choke job compared to PK. Josi is often sheltered. OEL can't defend as good as PK and neither does Josi.

Hedman... im still not sure. He does tilt the ice, but he's very well surrounded, like Burns was.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The "game" I'm watching has Sergachev on track to destroy Subban's best season... as a 19 year old from Russia in his rookie season.

Yeah but PK didnt play with Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman as a rookie. PK had Max, Cole DD n Hammer...

You seem to have a hard time with the subtleties of context.

 

[cphabs]

Yeah but PK didnt play with Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman as a rookie. PK had Max, Cole DD n Hammer...

Have you looked at the kids stats or watched his games in the NHL?

Sergachev is already outpacing Headman... According to your logic, Headman's success now must be due to Stamkos and Kucherov. Who's next? LMAO

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Have you looked at the kids stats or watched his games in the NHL?

Sergachev is already outpacing Headman... According to your logic, Headman's success now must be due to Stamkos and Kucherov. Who's next? LMAO

Player production aren't made in a vaccum all by themselves. There's a difference between playing woth those players vs playing with Pac and DD.

So from that i gather you think Sergachev would do as good here with lesser players?? Now THAT's truly worth a laugh.

Btw he's also sheltered and PK wasnt when he got 60pts.

Also.. the use of exageration and cherry picking (destroy PK's best total)). PK also started several seasons pretty strong, was ppg for 20 games before Price got injured in 15 (without offensive juggernauts at his side nor being sheltered). Let's also wait n see if Serge can at least match PK's Norris pace at 42 games played (without offensive juggernauts at his side nor being sheltered).

 

[Kriss E]

Nobody ever called Halak a "play off beast"

People wanted to trade Price and keep Halak because of that run.

 

[Kriss E]

The "game" I'm watching has Sergachev on track to destroy Subban's best season... as a 19 year old from Russia in his rookie season.

You might want to recalculate your math there...
Sergachev is on pace for 55pts, which is lower than PK's 2nd best season of 60pts. PK's Norris season, his best one, he was close to 1ppg pace, which Sergachev is not even close to.

Sergachev could very well become one of the great Dmen of the NHL, or not. He only has 31 games under his belt so..you know...wait a little?
Tyler Myers had an excellent rookie season starting as a 19yo, ending with 48pts in 82gp (7 short of the current pace of Sergachev, let's see if he can keep up this pace over the next 50 games) and winning the Calder trophy.
But as we know now, his rookie season was by far his best one.

Comparing a rookie with 31 games to a young veteran who already has a Norris is pretty freaking silly. Not sure how one does this.

 

[PaulD]

People wanted to trade Price and keep Halak because of that run.

Good thing the Habs did not do that 7 years ago. They would not made the play off since.

 

[PaulD]

You might want to recalculate your math there...
Sergachev is on pace for 55pts, which is lower than PK's 2nd best season of 60pts. PK's Norris season, his best one, he was close to 1ppg pace, which Sergachev is not even close to.

Sergachev could very well become one of the great Dmen of the NHL, or not. He only has 31 games under his belt so..you know...wait a little?
Tyler Myers had an excellent rookie season starting as a 19yo, ending with 48pts in 82gp (7 short of the current pace of Sergachev, let's see if he can keep up this pace over the next 50 games) and winning the Calder trophy.
But as we know now, his rookie season was by far his best one.

Comparing a rookie with 31 games to a young veteran who already has a Norris is pretty freaking silly. Not sure how one does this.

Myers is playing like a stud now. On a contender.

A ton of hab fans keep bragging of how young Drouin is "hes only 22" Implying he is only going to get better.

Well same goes for Sergachev. Except he is even younger and showing even more promise in his first season that Drouin did. On the same team playing with the same players.

Unfortunately the Habs lost a beauty there.

 

[PaulD]

Gainey: Trades a top pairing defense man - is an all around nice guy who has tragedy strike - gets ripped to shreds.

Bergevin: Trades two franchise defensemen - is a pompous ass - gets defended and called a victim.


Can’t make this **** up

Great point. If that does not spell it out loud. Nothing will.

Not to mention Gaineys pedigree before coming to the Habs.

Where MB didnt even have one.

 

[PaulD]

Have you looked at the kids stats or watched his games in the NHL?

Sergachev is already outpacing Headman... According to your logic, Headman's success now must be due to Stamkos and Kucherov. Who's next? LMAO

Of cousre , and Stampkos is only leading the league because he gets to play with Stamkos.

If PK played in Tbay he would win all the hardware in the league. Including the Vezina. Just ask his the fan club of his "brand"

 

[sandviper]

Personally, I think Sergachev is going to be a better defenseman than PK, but obviously as a marquee star and such, they won’t ever be on the same level. Nothing wrong with that, either case has it’s pros and cons.

As for the topic itself, will still maintain the Subban trade was worst only because the players exchanged are in their primes. Drouin and Sergachev are not, and for all we know, Drouin may suddenly take a huge leap and win multiple Art Ross trophies and Harts.

Will still be a bad trade though because Drouin won’t be doing this in a Habs jersey

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Great point. If that does not spell it out loud. Nothing will.

Not to mention Gaineys pedigree before coming to the Habs.

Where MB didnt even have one.

And that’s not to say Gainey was a great GM, because frankly I don’t think he was a whole lot better than Bergevin ( I think he was better though ), but it’s the double standard by some here that drives me nuts because there doesn’t appear to be any logic behind it what so ever. They just defend Bergevin because things.

 

[Miller Time]

And that’s not to say Gainey was a great GM, because frankly I don’t think he was a whole lot better than Bergevin ( I think he was better though ), but it’s the double standard by some here that drives me nuts because there doesn’t appear to be any logic behind it what so ever. They just defend Bergevin because things.

Gainey, imo, struggled in the asset management department overall, and had one terrible offseason ('08) were he missed a huge opportunity that could have set the team up for a long run of success but instead left us with Gomez/Gionta/Cammilleri, the smurf core, at almost 1/3 of our cap space.

But... at least as an organizational leader, he brought class and dignity to the role befitting of a franchise with the history and aspirations of the Habs. That counts for a lot imho. As much for the fans, as for the players and staff. That influence alone likely contributed to some of the overstated success that his poorly assembled roster was able to accomplish, which disappeared and crumbled away quickly under gauthier.

Bergevin is as bad, or worse, at assembling a roster/managing assets AND is a terrible leader. Makes him a far worse GM than Gainey.

 

[gillyguzzler]

At the time, I hated the Subban trade because Subban was entering his prime and still becoming a great defenseman while Weber was exiting his prime with diminishing returns. A year and a half later, there's no doubt that this is happening. Weber is still a threat on the PP and a leader but he is physically breaking down a bit and not able to play the expected 25+ minutes a night and the worse is yet to come. It's not his fault. He's a warrior who has played mammoth hockey during his entire career... but it's rapidly fading.

Drouin... young, exciting and the best is yet to come.

 

[Theodore450]

We have people calling Drouin a #1C, so no.

Monkey see monkey do logic it seems.
Good for you

 

[Theodore450]

Are you really saying that a rookie defender with under 40 games played is a franchise d?
Stop with the hate and bias, Gainy’s team is a competive as Bergevins team without the long term cap dumps and actual space to add an actual franchise player. I don’t agree with all the moves he’s made, but let’s not act like he hasn’t made good moves.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Are you really saying that a rookie defender with under 40 games played is a franchise d?
Stop with the hate and bias, Gainy’s team is a competive as Bergevins team without the long term cap dumps and actual space to add an actual franchise player. I don’t agree with all the moves he’s made, but let’s not act like he hasn’t made good moves.

Cap is going up by 5 million next year or so. There won't be any cash strapped teams almost by definition, thus destroying the ''advantage'' of having that extra cap space. We're just out an extra player at this point.

 

[Theodore450]

Cap is going up by 5 million next year or so. There won't be any cash strapped teams almost by definition, thus destroying the ''advantage'' of having that extra cap space. We're just out an extra player at this point.

Out an extra player?please tell me who that extra player is. It’s clear to me that’s it’s a 1C, it’s alwasy been about the 1C. Just need to find the 1C. Drouin is gonna be the #lw. Patches is gonna be traded, and everyone is still gonna find a way to complain and say “ we could have used it on another player”

There’s no winning with this fan base. A fan base that sits and argues about a rookie d they traded for a recent 3 overall pick that apperanlty is a franchise D now. Think logically and not emotionally and you’ll enjoy talking hockey more. Think emotionally when you watch the game. If at that point your rooting for the team. Then your a real fan, not the scum that throw negativity and then watch as the sheep follow. You guys would all be the greatest every gm

 

[NotProkofievian]

Out an extra player?please tell me who that extra player is. It’s clear to me that’s it’s a 1C, it’s alwasy been about the 1C. Just need to find the 1C. Drouin is gonna be the #lw. Patches is gonna be traded, and everyone is still gonna find a way to complain and say “ we could have used it on another player”

There’s no winning with this fan base. A fan base that sits and argues about a rookie d they traded for a recent 3 overall pick that apperanlty is a franchise D now. Think logically and not emotionally and you’ll enjoy talking hockey more. Think emotionally when you watch the game. If at that point your rooting for the team. Then your a real fan, not the scum that throw negativity and then watch as the sheep follow. You guys would all be the greatest every gm

That's entirely the problem. The cap space isn't an asset if you have nothing to spend it on. It could have been a trump card if other teams were going to be in a cap crunch, but that won't be the case.

 

[cphabs]

You might want to recalculate your math there...
Sergachev is on pace for 55pts, which is lower than PK's 2nd best season of 60pts. PK's Norris season, his best one, he was close to 1ppg pace, which Sergachev is not even close to.

Sergachev could very well become one of the great Dmen of the NHL, or not. He only has 31 games under his belt so..you know...wait a little?
Tyler Myers had an excellent rookie season starting as a 19yo, ending with 48pts in 82gp (7 short of the current pace of Sergachev, let's see if he can keep up this pace over the next 50 games) and winning the Calder trophy.
But as we know now, his rookie season was by far his best one.

Comparing a rookie with 31 games to a young veteran who already has a Norris is pretty freaking silly. Not sure how one does this.

Not when you look at Sergachev's GWG count after 31 games as a 19 year old rookie from Russia... He is dominating in Tampa of all teams.

 

[cphabs]

MB should be the first GM to trade 2 Norris winners while managing a team who's defense is more that suspect. Seriously!