Which is a worse trade: The Sergachev trade or the Subban trade?

[PaulD]

Gainey, imo, struggled in the asset management department overall, and had one terrible offseason ('08) were he missed a huge opportunity that could have set the team up for a long run of success but instead left us with Gomez/Gionta/Cammilleri, the smurf core, at almost 1/3 of our cap space.

But... at least as an organizational leader, he brought class and dignity to the role befitting of a franchise with the history and aspirations of the Habs. That counts for a lot imho. As much for the fans, as for the players and staff. That influence alone likely contributed to some of the overstated success that his poorly assembled roster was able to accomplish, which disappeared and crumbled away quickly under gauthier.

Bergevin is as bad, or worse, at assembling a roster/managing assets AND is a terrible leader. Makes him a far worse GM than Gainey.

and that is MB in his prime.

Gainey in his prime captained and lead teams to stanley cups a player. As a Coach he took an underdog team to the Stanley cup finals in his rookie season. As a GM he built the best team the Stars ever had. Winning the teams only Stanley Cup in history of the franchise (50 years) Brought Ken Hitchcock into the league. Brought Claude Julien into the league.

 

[PaulD]

and that is MB in his prime.

Gainey in his prime captained and lead teams to stanley cups a player. As a Coach he took an underdog team to the Stanley cup finals in his rookie season. As a GM he built the best team the Stars ever had. Winning the teams only Stanley Cup in history of the franchise (50 years) Brought Ken Hitchcock into the league. Brought Claude Julien into the league.

MB has done nothing with the Canadiens that Bob did not do. Only difference? Bob was fired. MB wasn't. How is that? Well......
MB lowered the bar to keep his own job. (and it worked )

 

[PaulD]

Out an extra player?please tell me who that extra player is. It’s clear to me that’s it’s a 1C, it’s alwasy been about the 1C. Just need to find the 1C. Drouin is gonna be the #lw. Patches is gonna be traded, and everyone is still gonna find a way to complain and say “ we could have used it on another player”

There’s no winning with this fan base. A fan base that sits and argues about a rookie d they traded for a recent 3 overall pick that apperanlty is a franchise D now. Think logically and not emotionally and you’ll enjoy talking hockey more. Think emotionally when you watch the game. If at that point your rooting for the team. Then your a real fan, not the scum that throw negativity and then watch as the sheep follow. You guys would all be the greatest every gm

Oh there is winning with this fan base. Believe me. All we used to do it watch, talk , and brag about winning.

If you dont know that you are new and simply dont know enough about the franchise.

Even when they lost they used to always contend.

 

[PaulD]

Oh there is winning with this fan base. Believe me. All we used to do it watch, talk , and brag about winning.

If you dont know that you are new and simply dont know enough about the franchise.

Even when they lost they used to always contend.

Its only quite recent that the Canadiens fan base began to sound like stereo typical Maple Leaf fan base.

 

[Kriss E]

Not when you look at Sergachev's GWG count after 31 games as a 19 year old rookie from Russia... He is dominating in Tampa of all teams.

That is what you're talking about?...GWG? You have got to be kidding me. How desperate are you not to admit you were wrong? Like come on.
Sergachev has more GWG than Crosby...who gives a flying f***. It means absolutely nothing.

 

[Kriss E]

Myers is playing like a stud now. On a contender.

A ton of hab fans keep bragging of how young Drouin is "hes only 22" Implying he is only going to get better.

Well I'm not one of those fans so there goes that logic.

Well same goes for Sergachev. Except he is even younger and showing even more promise in his first season that Drouin did. On the same team playing with the same players.

Unfortunately the Habs lost a beauty there.

Yes, but again, that doesn't prove he will become better than Subban.

 

[LaP]

Sergachev with 23 points now. I'm not even mad anymore.

 

[PaulD]

That is what you're talking about?...GWG? You have got to be kidding me. How desperate are you not to admit you were wrong? Like come on.
Sergachev has more GWG than Crosby...who gives a flying ****. It means absolutely nothing.

No it does not.

But watching him play does. I woiuld take him over Drouin all day long.

Actually I would probably take him over everyone on the Canadiens except Price and Weber.

 

[PaulD]

Well I'm not one of those fans so there goes that logic.


Yes, but again, that doesn't prove he will become better than Subban.

No of course not. But it goes along way to saying he will be in the same upper echelon among D.

And you can bet he will CONTINUE to be better that Drouin.

 

[mariolemieux66]

No of course not. But it goes along way to saying he will be in the same upper echelon among D.

And you can bet he will CONTINUE to be better that Drouin.

I will have to agree with this.
Sergachev is playing in a much better environment, playing with betteŕ players, coached by a better coach and has better GM than Montreal. Sergachev was put in a situation to succeed as opposed to Drouin where is was put in a situation to failed.
Unfortunately for us fan, we have to live with it just like we haave to live with the Subban trade. Actually, i still haven't got over the Subbam trade and probably never will.

 

[Deluded Puck]

I will have to agree with this.
Sergachev is playing in a much better environment, playing with betteŕ players, coached by a better coach and has better GM than Montreal. Sergachev was put in a situation to succeed as opposed to Drouin where is was put in a situation to failed.
Unfortunately for us fan, we have to live with it just like we haave to live with the Subban trade. Actually, i still haven't got over the Subbam trade and probably never will.

Yup.

Player for player I know the Sergachev trade will hurt us more. That hurts my head. The Subban trade hurts my heart. He did everything as an outsider to give to this city, and it still wasn’t enough.

 

[DAChampion]

Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, OEL, Pie, Josi and Letang are all better than him. Sorry.

Remember how in last year's playoffs, you actually believed that Getzlaf and Perry would be effective against Subban?

That's the extent to which you underestimate Subban.

In reality, Subban comprehensively neutralized Getzlaf and Perry.

 

[Uncle Gary]

I suppose this is why GM's don't trade potential superstars in division.

 

[Mrb1p]

Remember how in last year's playoffs, you actually believed that Getzlaf and Perry would be effective against Subban?

That's the extent to which you underestimate Subban.

In reality, Subban comprehensively neutralized Getzlaf and Perry.

Josi played against Getzlaf the most. Remember ? You guys were harping about how Josi was getting wrecked by Getzlaf and Subban never got wrecked by anyone ?

But what's the point, Subban has always been one of the best shutdown D in the league, probably the best at one on one, and that goes back to the early days. I don't understand Subban but all I have for him is praise. Kinda sad how you get painted a hater even though you're actually fan of the player and always will be.

 

[PaulD]

I will have to agree with this.
Sergachev is playing in a much better environment, playing with betteŕ players, coached by a better coach and has better GM than Montreal. Sergachev was put in a situation to succeed as opposed to Drouin where is was put in a situation to failed.
Unfortunately for us fan, we have to live with it just like we haave to live with the Subban trade. Actually, i still haven't got over the Subbam trade and probably never will.

I hear your disappointment.

But players do thrive on bad teams on their own merit. Give the kid some credit. I will say Sergachev is doing well on a good team because he is a great player. Of course playing with good players enhances that. I will also state that he and his parents got a huge break when he was traded out of Montreal. Chances of development being hindered there are all but guaranteed.

 

[Fazkovsky]

8 goals already for Sergachev

Mete is much smaller and can’t shoot like serge

I think this is another mcdonagh type of mistake

 

[Deluded Puck]

Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, OEL, Pie, Josi and Letang are all better than him. Sorry.

Karlsson. Absolutely

Doughty, & Hedman and maybe Pie it’s a wash.

Josi can’t handle shutdown duties and Letang and OEL is just LOL.

 

[sandviper]

Initially, I was happy with the Sergachev/Drouin trade. I mean, if the alternative was Sergachev/Duchene, this was the right choice by a mile.

The trade in itself I still think is fine, but again this comes down to supporting moves with other moves. A Drouin and Radulov top-6 would be deadly for teams to deal with, or keeping Markov with his vision and catching Drouin at full speed exiting the zone would have had a lot of potential.

Instead, we have Drouin being the last man back trying to generate offense and playing in a position we shoehorned him in.

 

[Mrb1p]

Initially, I was happy with the Sergachev/Drouin trade. I mean, if the alternative was Sergachev/Duchene, this was the right choice by a mile.

The trade in itself I still think is fine, but again this comes down to supporting moves with other moves. A Drouin and Radulov top-6 would be deadly for teams to deal with, or keeping Markov with his vision and catching Drouin at full speed exiting the zone would have had a lot of potential.

Instead, we have Drouin being the last man back trying to generate offense and playing in a position we shoehorned him in.

We traded a D that could (Actually probably a lot closer to "is" than "could") be a first pairing D on the left side when our best option there is a 5th D in Schlemko for a 2nd line offensive, lazy, soft and unidimensional winger.

There's no twist of history where we win this trade.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

We traded a D that could (Actually probably a lot closer to "is" than "could") be a first pairing D on the left side when our best option there is a 5th D in Schlemko for a 2nd line offensive, lazy, soft and unidimensional winger.

There's no twist of history where we win this trade.

Well Sergachev couldn't give interviews for RDS and make the Antichambre crew happy!!!

You're absolutely correct, it was an appeasement move from an imbecilic GM, an offering to the French media so they wouldn't go after his job. And to his credit it worked, the French media leaves Bargain Bin alone now. It's such a simple and effective move, that even a moron could figure it out.... and did!

 

[FloJack]

I will have to agree with this.
Sergachev is playing in a much better environment, playing with betteŕ players, coached by a better coach and has better GM than Montreal. Sergachev was put in a situation to succeed as opposed to Drouin where is was put in a situation to failed.

Although those factors definitely help a players situation, i still think the cream usually rises to the top. You see great players succeed in poor conditions all the time. Drouin is clearly showing more and more every game that he can’t rise to the top at all and was clearly not worth the Habs best young asset.

The Habs needed an offensive driver and all they got was another complimentary player that can’t do anything on his own. Pacioretty has the reputation around here for being invisible but Drouin is way less noticeable, more timid and can’t even be trusted to kill a penalty.

 

[RickP]

Josi played against Getzlaf the most. Remember ? You guys were harping about how Josi was getting wrecked by Getzlaf and Subban never got wrecked by anyone ?

But what's the point, Subban has always been one of the best shutdown D in the league, probably the best at one on one, and that goes back to the early days. I don't understand Subban but all I have for him is praise. Kinda sad how you get painted a hater even though you're actually fan of the player and always will be.

Not a huge deal, but you're confusing Getzlaf and Crosby. Josi played against Crosby and Crosby did have a few good games against him. But against Anaheim, Ekholm-Subban faced Getzlaf all series long, and he hasn't recorded a single point at even strength against Subban.

You can look at the game logs on NaturalStatTrick.com if you're not sure.

You can even find articles from François Gagnon praising Subban for shutting down Getzlaf, for being his "shadow". That was probably the first time Gagnon praised Subban

 

[Mrb1p]

Not a huge deal, but you're confusing Getzlaf and Crosby. Josi played against Crosby and Crosby did have a few good games against him. But against Anaheim, Ekholm-Subban faced Getzlaf all series long, and he hasn't recorded a single point at even strength against Subban.

You can look at the game logs on NaturalStatTrick.com if you're not sure.

You can even find articles from François Gagnon praising Subban for shutting down Getzlaf, for being his "shadow". That was probably the first time Gagnon praised Subban

Josi played about 40 minutes against Getzlaf to Subbans 60, but yeah, Getzlaf had no points with Subban on the ice.

 

[mariolemieux66]

Josi played about 40 minutes against Getzlaf to Subbans 60, but yeah, Getzlaf had no points with Subban on the ice.

The 40 minutes Josi played against Getzlaf was during Nashville's PP.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Initially, I was happy with the Sergachev/Drouin trade. I mean, if the alternative was Sergachev/Duchene, this was the right choice by a mile.

The trade in itself I still think is fine, but again this comes down to supporting moves with other moves. A Drouin and Radulov top-6 would be deadly for teams to deal with, or keeping Markov with his vision and catching Drouin at full speed exiting the zone would have had a lot of potential.

Instead, we have Drouin being the last man back trying to generate offense and playing in a position we shoehorned him in.

I don't think anyone expected this type of season from Sergachev, not MB, certainly not Yzerman or else he would have negotiated something else in rather than a conditional pick.

I think its a surprise to [almost] everyone.