Proposal: Trouba Mega thread Part V

[crowi]

Miller, McIllraith, Holden, 2nd for Trouba, a minor league plug and a low pick
Not totally fair value but life sucks with a pointed Gun at your head
Think Bruins might come with The best offer though
Detroit hot too

McIlrath is worth nothing - not even a 7th. It has been proved to every single person at this point. Yet you think he is worth something.
Jets should take their time and let Trouba cry all he wants. He is losing money, Jets are doing pretty good - who cares.

 

[Say What]

There is no dead line for anyone but Chevy. Trouba will require assets going back, so this is not a TDL rental type of a trade. None of the offers have been accepted yet which tells me Chevy might be way off base in terms of value. Before December 1st comes along, Chevy will be taking the best package available. His options are to let Trouba sit which does the Jets zero good now or in the future, or have him sign a deal and have a player that doesn't want to play on the Jets. Both of those are way worse options than trading Trouba for the best package available. The closer we get to the December 1st date, the more it forces Chevy's hand but not any other GM's.

It's the Winnipeg Jets that have been informed, that Jacob Trouba wants a new NHL 'home'. IMO, the only deadline of any significance to TNSE, is the one in which the league asks teams to submit a protection list for the Expansion Draft (at which time Jacob's name will be written down).

In my opinion, the Winnipeg Jets aren't anxiously awaiting a suitable offer; trade or no trade.....it's business as usual.

Again...Jacob Trouba is an RFA (not UFA), and therefore has the 'right' to sit out until a contract of his liking manifests itself. The only true deadline, is the one the CBA has inposed on Jacob's ability to play in the 2016/17 season.

 

[57special]

I hope we can get a LD as good or better than Trouba, but I'm not holding my breath on it. I just don't see the 1 for 1 most would like.

I remember when most Jets fans (myself included) thought Kane would go 1 for 1 in a trade. Instead we got a package, which looks like a win for the Jets.

Who do you(Jets fans in general) consider to be the LHD eqivalent of Trouba?

 

[Paradise*]

Who do you(Jets fans in general) consider to be the LHD eqivalent of Trouba?

With the current ask...I don't see one available.

 

[Guffman]

Let's talk hypotheticals regarding the expansion draft.

In the 4/4/1 we most likely protect...

Wheeler
Scheifele
Little
Perreault/Armia
Exempt: Laine, Ehlers and Connor

Byfuglien
Myers
Trouba
Enstrom
Exempt: Morrissey

Hellebuyck

In the 7/3/1 we most likely protect...

Wheeler
Scheifele
Little
Perreault
Armia
Dano
Lowry

Byfuglien
Enstrom
Myers/Trouba (trade?)

Hellebuyck

I would hate to lose a good player like Perreault or Armia in the 4/4/1 scenario.

In the 7/3/1 scenario we would protect more forwards, but would need to trade Myers or Trouba (likely).

That's one of the reasons I'd also consider a Miller + Skjei (exempt) + pick deal.

IMO Miller + Skjei + pick + keeping Perreault/Armia + one of Dano/Lowry > Trouba

I would then go 7/3/1.

Wheeler
Scheifele
Little
Perreault
Armia
Miller
Dano/Lowry
Exempt: Laine, Ehlers and Connor

Byfuglien
Myers
Enstrom
Exempt: Morrissey and Skjei

Hellebuyck

We would have a ton of quality depth after the expansion draft. To me, it's something I'd consider.

I think Chevy asks Enstrom to waive his ntc and leaves him unprotected.

 

[cobra427]

Obviously random poster as yourself can believe whatever you like. But clearly the real GM and billionaire owner believe/know more of the facts, especially when they've seen all the offers (while you've seen zero) dating back to May. If what your saying was true the deal would of done months ago. But feel free to believe what you like. Sounds like your suggesting Chevy has already overplayed his hand and will be forced to accept 50 cents on the dollar or worse which is amusing. I'm not saying (see dozens of my posts) Chevy will get his original price of a lhd, no doubt he set the bar high to maximize his return. But as I've stated many times I think he will be traded for BPA or BPA + (meaning a forward or forward & D prospect)......either way he will get full/very good value.

I agree, it could be LHD or BPA+. What I am saying is that the market value of a player changes over time based on circumstances out of the control of the GM. The offers Chevy has received or did receive could be much less than what he will receive now or in the next month. Because of the cap/expansion and teams being set for the season right now, there is a more likely chance that there are less buyers now than there was this summer or even before the season started. There are plenty of examples of teams waiting too long to move a player and they wind up with a lesser return. I think this will be one of them.

 

[Guffman]

There is no dead line for anyone but Chevy. Trouba will require assets going back, so this is not a TDL rental type of a trade. None of the offers have been accepted yet which tells me Chevy might be way off base in terms of value. Before December 1st comes along, Chevy will be taking the best package available. His options are to let Trouba sit which does the Jets zero good now or in the future, or have him sign a deal and have a player that doesn't want to play on the Jets. Both of those are way worse options than trading Trouba for the best package available. The closer we get to the December 1st date, the more it forces Chevy's hand but not any other GM's.

If Trouba sits, he Jets can simply trade him next offseason during a time where teams have more flexibility to rearrange a roster and make a splash.

If the deals are poor by December 1, and Trouba is going to sulk ifmhe has to sign with us, I'm fine letting him sit and trade him in the summer.

 

[cobra427]

If Trouba sits, he Jets can simply trade him next offseason during a time where teams have more flexibility to rearrange a roster and make a splash.

If the deals are poor by December 1, and Trouba is going to sulk ifmhe has to sign with us, I'm fine letting him sit and trade him in the summer.

Great idea, except for the Jets just wasted an asset for one year and if he sits, next summer his value will be much less than it is now. Chevy should have moved him this summer when their were more potential buyers/offers.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Great idea, except for the Jets just wasted an asset for one year and if he sits, next summer his value will be much less than it is now. Chevy should have moved him this summer when their were more potential buyers/offers.

#1) The Jets aren't the ones damaging the player's asset value, that would be the player. The Jets shouldn't reward that behavior by acquiescing and moving him for less than his value when signed and in the lineup.

#2) You keep making definitive statements as to value. You have no idea as to his worth during the past summer versus at present - unless you've tapped into their communications dept.

 

[Guffman]

Great idea, except for the Jets just wasted an asset for one year and if he sits, next summer his value will be much less than it is now. Chevy should have moved him this summer when their were more potential buyers/offers.

Actually, the Jets will still control him for four years so they are not wasting anything. Trouba just delays his UFA by a year. It doesn't hurt the Jets at all.

Now, as for value, would the Jets get better offers by December 1 or during next offseason when teams have a lot more flexibility? Sure, Trouba's value takes a bit of a hit by him sitting a year, but like I said, more trade flexibility in the offseason for teams.

To me, it's not a major devaluation of our asset value by not trading/signing him by December 1.

 

[ulf]

If we believe his value or return will be equal or better at the draft.....then let him sit. Why risk signing him. Turris got his contract and played his way out of Phoenix limiting their return. No payday for you Trouba.

 

[Goulet17]

If Trouba is traded next off season after not playing in the NHL this season, I would think the center piece of any deal is likely a prospect and/or draft picks. It may be a blue chip prospect and/or a relatively high draft pick, but a prospect and/or picks nonetheless.

What team in their right mind is going to trade a youngish, comparable NHL player for Trouba at that point? It is simply too much risk for an NHL GM, because you do not know where Trouba is in his development in that scenario. I am simply trying to understand the logic of expecting anything else if that in fact happens.

 

[Holtman]

Actually, the Jets will still control him for four years so they are not wasting anything. Trouba just delays his UFA by a year. It doesn't hurt the Jets at all.

Now, as for value, would the Jets get better offers by December 1 or during next offseason when teams have a lot more flexibility? Sure, Trouba's value takes a bit of a hit by him sitting a year, but like I said, more trade flexibility in the offseason for teams.

To me, it's not a major devaluation of our asset value by not trading/signing him by December 1.

I would say it may hurt the jets a bit short term having him sit all year, bit definitely hurts trouba way
More both short term and quite possibly long term

 

[Flyerfan52]

After E Kane had apparently asked for a trade since the year after the Thrashers became the Jets & he'd willingly accepted a raise in pay but put in 4 rather lackluster years for the Jets Chevy got a dang good return.
Trouba doesn't have a contract but with the Jets owning his rights for the next 4-5 years he can't play in the NHL without the Jets say.
The patience showed with Kane should give Trouba (& his agent pause) unless Jacob thinks he'll enjoy playing in Europe for an extended period.
Stevie Y showed with Drouin that RFAs (signed or not) don't wield the power to force their will on a team.
Assuming a contract of 5-5.5 per every game missed costs Jacob 60 thousand. He won't make enough in Europe (especially since teams there are set) to make it up.
The story floating around that he/his agent refused to consider Canadian teams along with his ask further limit the suitors if he really wants outs. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
Best bet for Trouba is to swallow his pride, change agents & sign. He can work his way up the RD chart or play left side getting minutes to up his value for a trade.
The Jets stand to lose what looks like a top 4 minimum D but Trouba is gambling his career.

 

[Guffman]

If Trouba is traded next off season after not playing in the NHL this season, I would think the center piece of any deal is likely a prospect and/or draft picks. It may be a blue chip prospect and/or a relatively high draft pick, but a prospect and/or picks nonetheless.

What team in their right mind is going to trade a youngish, comparable NHL player for Trouba at that point? It is simply too much risk for an NHL GM, because you do not know where Trouba is in his development in that scenario. I am simply trying to understand the logic of expecting anything else if that in fact happens.

We're not getting a Trouba clone in a trade, agreed. It could be a multi-player deal like the Kane one. We give up Trouba and a forward and get a better forward and lesser D plus promising prospects as an example.

Our top 4 looks good if Morrissey continues to pan out. I'd like to see some great defensive prospects in the door to eventually move into Enstrom's spot.

 

[cobra427]

#1) The Jets aren't the ones damaging the player's asset value, that would be the player. The Jets shouldn't reward that behavior by acquiescing and moving him for less than his value when signed and in the lineup.

#2) You keep making definitive statements as to value. You have no idea as to his worth during the past summer versus at present - unless you've tapped into their communications dept.

1. If the Jets goal is to not reward the player, you are correct. It doesn't matter why his asset value is damaged or who's fault it is, nobody cares. If there goal is to improve the team now, later this year and beyond, they will trade him.

2. Trades get done in the summer because there are plenty of buyers and sellers. Easier for both teams to be happy with a trade. Holding out and the time of year effects value. I can't believe any fan can't see this as obvious.

 

[Guffman]

I would say it may hurt the jets a bit short term having him sit all year, bit definitely hurts trouba way
More both short term and quite possibly long term

Most Jets fans rightfully think that we're not too fussed about the short-term considering we have four rookies and two young goalies in the line-up. Not a contending year. Therefore, no panic moves are necessary by Chevy.

Since we don't lose a year on our control of him, we're balancing Trouba rust against more trade options in the offseason. Is it a wash? I dunno. It's just not a horrendous scenario.

Plus, it does send a message to other RFAs to not bother messin' with Chevy.

Look, I prefer a pre-Dec 1 resolution and to just move on but if it doesn't happen, not really a big issue to the Jets.

 

[Say What]

If Trouba is traded next off season after not playing in the NHL this season, I would think the center piece of any deal is likely a prospect and/or draft picks. It may be a blue chip prospect and/or a relatively high draft pick, but a prospect and/or picks nonetheless.

What team in their right mind is going to trade a youngish, comparable NHL player for Trouba at that point? It is simply too much risk for an NHL GM, because you do not know where Trouba is in his development in that scenario. I am simply trying to understand the logic of expecting anything else if that in fact happens.

IMO, Jacob Trouba has established his place in the NHL. His skillset does not change because of the current situation (any more than if he had season ending surgery, with an expected full recovery). Every GM knows exactly what getting Jacob trouba brings to their team.

 

[Goulet17]

We're not getting a Trouba clone in a trade, agreed. It could be a multi-player deal like the Kane one. We give up Trouba and a forward and get a better forward and lesser D plus promising prospects as an example.

Our top 4 looks good if Morrissey continues to pan out. I'd like to see some great defensive prospects in the door to eventually move into Enstrom's spot.

I think that is a pretty reasonable take. With Morrissey's play, it seems like the Jets are in a flexible enough situation to go in any number of directions. I do agree with you about defensive prospects, but wouldn't it be more important to get some RHD prospects in the organization? You have Morrissey a LHD establishing himself at a young age and just drafted Logan Stanley as a first round pick. It seems like RHD prospects become more critical due to Trouba's loss and the aging of your current NHL right side.

 

[Goulet17]

IMO, Jacob Trouba has established his place in the NHL. His skillset does not change because of the current situation (any more than if he had season ending surgery, with an expected full recovery). Every GM knows exactly what getting Jacob trouba brings to their team.

I really disagree with that take, particularly in light of media comments that their is some disagreement about his hockey IQ, which may be adversely affected by essentially a lost development year.

At that point, Trouba involves some risk, and no GM is going to give away an asset that does not have some comparable degree of risk.

 

[Gump Hasek]

1. If the Jets goal is to not reward the player, you are correct. It doesn't matter why his asset value is damaged or who's fault it is, nobody cares. If there goal is to improve the team now, later this year and beyond, they will trade him.

If I own a car (or any other asset for that matter) and you damage its value, you can be damn sure I'd hold you responsible for it and recoup my full damages in return.

Trades get done in the summer because there are plenty of buyers and sellers. Easier for both teams to be happy with a trade. Holding out and the time of year effects value. I can't believe any fan can't see this as obvious.

And if Trouba existed within a vacuum and the Jets wanted to move him then you'd have a point. Myers was rehabbing multiple surgeries during the summer and the Jets had no idea at the time whether or not he would arrive at camp in any shape to play. I conversely can't believe anyone following the situation would actually suggest that the Jets would even consider trading Trouba while Myers was on the shelf. Hope that helps.

 

[Guffman]

I think that is a pretty reasonable take. With Morrissey's play, it seems like the Jets are in a flexible enough situation to go in any number of directions. I do agree with you about defensive prospects, but wouldn't it be more important to get some RHD prospects in the organization? You have Morrissey a LHD establishing himself at a young age and just drafted Logan Stanley as a first round pick. It seems like RHD prospects become more critical due to Trouba's loss and the aging of your current NHL right side.

For Top 4, on RHD, Buff is 31 and Myers is 26. On LHD, Enstrom is 31 and Morrissey is 21.

Morrissey still has to prove he's capable of taking that spot long-term (he is only 8 games in). Some think Enstrom is aging a bit while Buff is still a superhero at 31.

Is one side super critical in terms of deficiency? Ehhh, maybe not but I would prefer filling out the left side a bit more more. I don't think the Jets will scoff either way if it's a great defensive prospect.

 

[Mad Brills*]

rielly + brown for troua

 

[Guffman]

I really disagree with that take, particularly in light of media comments that their is some disagreement about his hockey IQ, which may be adversely affected by essentially a lost development year.

At that point, Trouba involves some risk, and no GM is going to give away an asset that does not have some comparable degree of risk.

Is it really a lost development year to an acquiring team? They'll still get a young player with four years of control, whether they get him now or next year.

What's more valuable? 22-year old Trouba who becomes a UFA at 26, or a 23-year old Trouba who becomes a UFA at 27? Performance in year 1 of a contract will arguably be the same in both cases.

The only person who is really out a year of his career is Trouba.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Guess this player:

8 GP, 1-2-3, 4 PIM

If you said Darnell Nurse, you're correct. Over 82 GP, that's 10-20-30 with 41 PIM- in line with what Trouba produced during his stellar rookie season, and a better pace than he's had since.

Now, I don't intend to suggest that Nurse is a lock to hit 30 points this year; on the other hand, he needs just 18 in the season's remaining 73 games to match Trouba's 21-year-old season.

It's a shame Trouba's issues seem to be geographical, or else a Nurse for Trouba swap looks awfully fair.