Trades, Rumours + Expansion Theories: Off-Season Edition

[hockeywiz542]

 

[notdoneyet]

Not a big fan of the Kovy idea. We don't know how he will be in the NHL at age 35-36. We have to pay NJ to get him. The expectation is 6m and probably multi year (3-4).

Vs.

Eberle who comes for 2 years, should cost very little, has improved defensively over the past year. (I think Babcock can iron Him out) he also has great hands and is much younger.

I think Kovalchuk has to come pretty cheap and short term to make that move.

where do you come up with this stuff.

if eberle has the soft hands and defensive awareness that you state
answer these two basic questions

if he is so good why would Edmonton get rid of him

and if he is that good why would he come cheap

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Can you name a player like JVR in recent transactions who got you a 1st?

Bobby Ryan, Lucic

Both were good trades for their opponents (Boston and Anaheim), but the trades didn't involve a top 4 defender. I wonder if Ottawa or LA would do those trades again?

they could trade one of there D for pick (s) and a waiver exempt D man, someone like Dermont

Travis Dermott could be of interest possibly as part of package. Right kind of thinking I'd say. Would think young prospects on the verge of breaking out would be of interest, along with 1st rounders.

For the record I don't think JVR would return a D man straight up.

But the market value for a borderline first line winger is pretty much a 1st + good prospect/young player.

I would agree.

 

[613Leafer]

Lucic got a relatively high 1st (13th OA), a good young semi proven goalie (Jones, who was then flipped for an unprotected 1st + prospect), and a prospect (Miller).

Bobby Ryan was traded for a 1st (became 10th OA Nick Ritchie), a semi proven young forward (Silfverberg), and a recent 1st prospect (Noesen).

JVR is probably worth slightly less then those two guys, so maybe subtract the least valuable piece. Ryan was signed for two years instead of just one, and Lucic at the time was considered a league wide top powerforward.

 

[PromisedLand]

1. No, he is not the same player as he was when he was 25 years old. So what?
2. Yes, he's fairly old.
3. False. He does not take shifts off. Kovalchuk plays with more intensity than JVR.
4. We can still add defensive help, if we trade for Kovalchuk. Nothing is stopping that from happening.
5. False. Kovalchuk is has not been known as defensively weak.

Ilya Kovalchuk was either an assistant captain or a captain during every season he played in the NHL, minus his rookie season.

Lou Lamoriello and Jacques Lemaire named Kovalchuk an assistant captain during his first full season in NJ.

Both are with Toronto now.

actually. no. the reason why the Leafs didn't make the playoffs in a decade in a full season are the following.

1: the first five years - bad starts, injuries to core people, the freaking shootout (thank you Wade from new Jersey). next five years - being horribly bad, horrendous signings, horrendous trades, no depth, no talent save 3 people, not so good coaching, not so good goaltending, and a general toxic atmosphere.



Who is rushing anything. the Leafs have the offense to make it to the eastern conference finals now. and as they showed in Washington if they had one or two defensemen they could have pushed Washington out - and then everything would be a wash (I'm not saying we beat Pit or not). You have to work with what you have. improving the team when there are pieces out there TO improve - is not rushing anything. it's called improving your team.

.

and your point is what? When Kovy was first signed in NJ everyone was like how the heck is that going to work and he had a decent defensive game and he was a big part of the reason why that team went to the finals.



what makes him "not a Babcock player?" specifically?
having older players on the team - is not a bad thing.
getting wingers during UFA/trades - is not a bad thing.
if you think the Leafs are just going to keep inserting youth into the line up and then 4 years from now it's going to be "okay, NOW we can start contending." I think you are very sadly mistaken.

"going slow." went out the window the moment the lottery balls went our way and we drafted Matthews, and that cemented the moment it crystallized that we've got 3 amazing talents. if the younger asset is worth being up, then he'll be up. but he's not going to be given a spot either.

Lou had acquired Kovy as a rental NOT as a main stay. Lou and owner of Devils did not see eye to eye with that ridiculous contract. It was the owners' decision not Lou's decision.

The Devils reached the Cup finals once but missed the playoffs twice with Kovalchuk— more than they had in the previous 20 years.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/buyer-beware-on-kovalchuk/article1544252/
"GM Lou Lamoriello always characterized him as a rental and Kovalchuk played like one too. He was okay - not the worst Devil by any means, but he didn't exactly engage the way you have to in the playoffs, especially against a wounded team such as the Philadelphia Flyers that didn't want to give the New Jersey-ites any life. For the Devils to lose their final game of the season, at home, in a shutout to the Flyers' No. 3 goalie Brian Boucher, well, it doesn't get much uglier than that."


During the world championship in 2015 Kovalchuk signaled his Russian teammates to leave the ice before Canada’s gold-winning national anthem and banner were raised.

That is not the kind of leadership and prima donna players needed on the Leafs roster.

It is about the Logo on the front NOT the name on the back; Kovy falls in the latter categories of players where he cares about the name at the back not the logo on the front.

When Lamoriello is asked the key to his success, he says it has been his systematic approach to player development. "It’s the team character this squad has... that you build on. I don’t ever use the word 'rebuild.' Based on my college background, I like to look at my roster as my seniors, juniors, sophomores and freshmen and gauge their development and roster turnover based on players going from one of those classes into the next. You have to build your staff and encourage them to be creative and realistic in their approach—and (not) be afraid to make a mistake. We stress that in drafting, player development, and coaching. You grow from your mistakes. I know I have.

Your want of a "new toy" for flaunting and discussing it to no end; and your understanding that Leafs are ready "when the lottery ball dropped in Leafs favour" leafs are close to contenders is laughable. Even Hawks weren't close to contenders after drafting their star studded line up.

Kovy with the Leafs are a BIG NO NO. There are no two ways about it. It is about the present and the future; not to live in the past glory of has beens like Kovy.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=56745

Look at Kovy's playoff performance in recent years for KHL. NHL is far superior; all you people that are willing to kiss the ground he walks on would start to hate him.

This is Clarkson dejavu. I specifically remember many posting how awesome Clarkson would be and guess what happened????

Thanks but no thanks. No need for Kovy in the blue and white.

 

[PromisedLand]

Amen!!!!

 

[Al14]

Lou and Jacques should be fired immediately if they insist on acquiring Kovalchuk.

We don't need that Russian quitter on the Blue and White!

 

[HoweHullOrr]

A JVR trade likely doesn't involve a top 4D either. Trade JVR for picks and prospects then go to rebuilding teams for their top4 D with the futures with ++ if needed, they are most likely to be dealing a top 4 d anyway and will take futures. They wont want JVR though obviously

Gaining assets (not necessarily/likely a top 4 D) from a JVR trade is obviously a reasonable idea. As you suggest, the assets acquired could be used in the future for a defender.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Amen!!!!

except Freidman says they do, so who knows

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lou and Jacques should be fired immediately if they insist on acquiring Kovalchuk.

We don't need that Russian quitter on the Blue and White!

yes MORE ZACH HYMANS MORE

 

[Go4soda]

Apparently leafs are close to signing Boyle
As per @hockey24/7

 

[PromisedLand]

except Freidman says they do, so who knows

We will see but to be frank there is no need for Kovy. We need good two way players and a stud D for top pairing.

Unless it is for acquire Kovy and flip him to get that stud D there is no need for him. Leafs have to look at present and future NOT just present.

Leafs are NOT in the same position as some of the other teams that are thought to be contenders.

Even Babcock in his post season press conference had said something along the lines of...

"Washington knows that they will make the playoffs even before they begin the season; Leafs are not there yet"

Any ridiculous moves by the Leafs and it will stall us back few years. Kovy is a substantial RISK that Leafs DO NOT have to take.

Screw Friedman.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Apparently leafs are close to signing Boyle
As per @hockey24/7

Appreciate the update but not really a valid source, because they've never broken anything before and aren't likely to now.

 

[Go4soda]

Appreciate the update but not really a valid source, because they've never broken anything before and aren't likely to now.

Yeah, got it sent to me and passed it on. Didn't realize what these guys are. Apologies.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Appreciate the update but not really a valid source, because they've never broken anything before and aren't likely to now.

One can dream. If it's one or two years at a reasonable cap hit, then it's not bad for the Leafs. Anything more than 2 years and 2.5 mill per is probably not good win Martin around.

 

[rumman]

Yeah, got it sent to me and passed it on. Didn't realize what these guys are. Apologies.

If true, I hope the term is short. I still think the Goat can be a effective 4th line centre.

 

[Go4soda]

One can dream. If it's one or two years at a reasonable cap hit, then it's not bad for the Leafs. Anything more than 2 years and 2.5 mill per is probably not good win Martin around.

Says it's similar to his current deal. Take it with a bushel of salt I guess.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Says it's similar to his current deal. Take it with a bushel of salt I guess.

What's his current deal?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Lucic got a relatively high 1st (13th OA), a good young semi proven goalie (Jones, who was then flipped for an unprotected 1st + prospect), and a prospect (Miller).

Bobby Ryan was traded for a 1st (became 10th OA Nick Ritchie), a semi proven young forward (Silfverberg), and a recent 1st prospect (Noesen).

JVR is probably worth slightly less then those two guys, so maybe subtract the least valuable piece. Ryan was signed for two years instead of just one, and Lucic at the time was considered a league wide top powerforward.

So, a reasonably high 1st rounder and a good/decent prospect then? I don't think anyone would disagree with that, including myself.

Its the young, top 4 NHL defender part that I'm skeptical about.

On a different topic, I think the LVGK might take some bad contracts from some teams in exchange for 1st and 2nd rounders. Perhaps player/teams like:

• Dillon, Sharks
• Killorn/Tampa
• Eakins/Dallas
• Kruger/Chicago
• Girardi/Rangers

I'm sure there are better or other examples.

I can see them trying to get three 1st rounders and perhaps the same amount of 2nd rounders in the 2018 draft, and deploy the same strategy for 2 or 3 years.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If true, I hope the term is short. I still think the Goat can be a effective 4th line centre.

I think the Goat can become another Boyle. Maybe even better defensively.

 

[BertCorbeau]

With the Goat's injury and waiver-exempt status for one more season, IMO it makes sense to leave him in the AHL to recover and get his game back. He won't stagnate down there by any means. Heck even the following season, if the Leafs were to keep Boyle for a couple of years, having Goat as a 13th forward in the press box wouldn't be bad either.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

With the Goat's injury and waiver-exempt status for one more season, IMO it makes sense to leave him in the AHL to recover and get his game back. He won't stagnate down there by any means. Heck even the following season, if the Leafs were to keep Boyle for a couple of years, having Goat as a 13th forward in the press box wouldn't be bad either.

Maybe for a year in the press box, but the guy should be in the lineup sooner rather than later. A two year deal would make the most sense for everybody. If he got a front loaded deal with less cap so it's easy to trade him, then maybe a longer term also can work.

Goat would do well in the AHL next year. He could play anywhere in the lineup given Toninato and Brooks can also, so lots of flexibility for everyone.

 

[Go4soda]

What's his current deal?

3yrs 2M per, I believe.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

What's his current deal?

3 years @ 2 mill per. I'd be okay with that if he's willing to sign it. We'd probably just trade him after year 1 or 2 depending on Gauthier. 2 mill on one or two years for Boyle would be easy to move and likely could demand a decent asset.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

3yrs 2M per, I believe.

Thanks