Ansar Khan: Trades, Buyouts, and the Entry Draft

[MrTaterSalad]

Something interesting is I have long thought the Wings would love Eriksson. Seems a perfect fit, interesting to see these comments and to watch Nill move him directly out of the organization even if it was for a big target.

Just to clear it up those press conference words were not from Bob Wojonowski or Ken Holland, they were mine. I was just pontificating as to what Holland might say if asked about Eriksson.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Keith Ballard: Keith Ballard's two-year deal with MIN has an AAV of $1.5M.

 

[jaster]

Really?
The Stars had no choice but to make a trade
They couldn't sign VinnLC? Stephen Weiss? Grabovski? Filppula?

The point isn't that Nill made a trade -- it's that he made a HUMONGOUS trade for one of the most prized youngsters in the game.

Trade, signing, move, whatever. The point was, his roster required some major additions/changes. The Wings aren't in the same boat. It made sense for Dallas to make a major strike at a young star. But let's not make it sound like they robbed their trade partner. They did give up Eriksson.

It's also pretty offensive to constantly be lectured on "reality."

We all have our opinions. None of us knows what a GM's "reality" actuality is and we're all speculating.

Constantly defending the moves of a GM doesn't make your opinion any more "real" than anyone else's opinion.

GMs like Jim Nill and Paul Holmgren and Peter Chiarelli and Stan Bowman certainly prove that Ken Holland's cautious style isn't the only way to go about the business.

That's all nice. But you ignored an extremely important facet of the comparison, one that adds significant context. One that is rooted in..... reality. Don't be offended. Just don't be intellectually dishonest

(Also, this isn't about defending Holland, nor trying to show that he's near the extremely enlightened and successful level of Nill, Holmgren, Chiarelli, or Bowman. It's about contesting the assertion that Nill has a completely different philosophy than that of Holland, just because he made a big move with his new team; a team that is completely different from that of Detroit)

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Holy... Jim Nill just... Wow...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Just to clear it up those press conference words were not from Bob Wojonowski or Ken Holland, they were mine. I was just pontificating as to what Holland might say if asked about Eriksson.

Well the point still stands, even if the return was great. It was interesting how quickly Eriksson was shopped, given what we have always considered an absolutely great fit he would be around here.

 

[Bench]

Losing Eriksson and J. Morrow is a huge blow. That can't be understated. Huge. But they had no high caliber center options after losing out on Vinny, so it makes sense. Loui always made his centers better, though, all ends of the ice. Rare gift for a winger and he's on a steal contract.

Exciting times for the Stars fans though, good for them.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Trade, signing, move, whatever. The point was, his roster required some major additions/changes. The Wings aren't in the same boat. It made sense for Dallas to make a major strike at a young star. But let's not make it sound like they robbed their trade partner. They did give up Eriksson.

Nobody said they "robbed" anyone.
But what he did was make a bold move,
And while changes are required in Dallas, they're not much worse than Detroit -- which seems to building about the same lineup they had last year.

That's all nice. But you ignored an extremely important facet of the comparison, one that adds significant context. One that is rooted in..... reality. Don't be offended. Just don't be intellectually dishonest

So you go from I'm not living in reality, to being intellectually dishonest.

Good chat. But I've got better things to do.

 

[jaster]

Nobody said they "robbed" anyone.
But what he did was make a bold move,
And while changes are required in Dallas, they're not much worse than Detroit -- which seems to building about the same lineup they had last year.

Show me a need on the Wings that compares to the need Dallas had for two top-6 centers.

The Stars had to make a bold move. Detroit doesn't.

So you go from I'm not living in reality, to being intellectually dishonest.

Good chat. But I've got better things to do.

I've known you through message boards for many years now. I know that's a lie

 

[Bench]

And while changes are required in Dallas, they're not much worse than Detroit

Nobody I know agrees with that. And they hate admitting it.

5 straight years they have gotten worse, not better. Zero playoffs. Lost Richards, Morrow, Riberio, Roy, Jagr, Neal, Ryder, Niskanen... Replaced with Rielly Smith and other AHL players mostly.

This is a good move for Nill, but let's not get carried away. And I love the Stars, so double homer here!

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Show me a need on the Wings that compares to the need Dallas had for two top-6 centers.

The Stars had to make a bold move. Detroit doesn't.




I've known you through message boards for many years now. I know that's a lie

we dont have a top 6 centre under 32, that seems like a pretty big need, no?

 

[Bench]

we dont have a top 6 centre under 32, that seems like a pretty big need, no?

Fair point. Lots of pressure is on Iron Hook. And whoever they sign, be it Flip, Grabo, or Weiss.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

we dont have a top 6 centre under 32, that seems like a pretty big need, no?

I don't see that as a need that requires a bold move right now. It may require a move, but not such a move that Dallas made today.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don't see that as a need that requires a bold move right now. It may require a move, but not such a move that Dallas made today.

acquiring a young superstar centre is always a good idea

dallas didnt give up that much, more then we could ahve, but thats a whole other debate as to why thats so

 

[ArGarBarGar]

acquiring a young superstar centre is always a good idea

Obviusly, but you can agree that it was more than just a good idea for Dallas, yes?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Losing Eriksson and J. Morrow is a huge blow. That can't be understated. Huge. But they had no high caliber center options after losing out on Vinny, so it makes sense. Loui always made his centers better, though, all ends of the ice. Rare gift for a winger and he's on a steal contract.

Exciting times for the Stars fans though, good for them.

Don't forget that Nill managed to get the #2 pick in the draft -- a 21-year-old kid who's going to be the franchise center ---

Guys like that make it pretty easy to dish Eriksson -- a 27-year-old who is suddenly 5 years from his 30 goal season -- and who produced about the same as Brendan Morrow last year -- a guy who was called "done" on another thread on this board today.

 

[cupforwings09]

Don't forget that Nill managed to get the #2 pick in the draft -- a 21-year-old kid who's going to be the franchise center ---

Guys like that make it pretty easy to dish Eriksson -- a 27-year-old who is suddenly 5 years from his 30 goal season -- and who produced about the same as Brendan Morrow last year -- a guy who was called "done" on another thread on this board today.

LOL. And we all know if it was said on this board, it is true.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Obviusly, but you can agree that it was more than just a good idea for Dallas, yes?

I think acquiring Seguin would be a great idea for every team not named Pittsburgh

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I don't see that as a need that requires a bold move right now. It may require a move, but not such a move that Dallas made today.

We had Yzerman and Fedorov -- we kept it going going with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Elite center icemen has been the staple of the organization for two decades.

Honestly, we don't have the proven assets to get a guy like a Seguin. But if we did? Wow. That's the move that could provide the glue for the next 10-12 years of Red Wings hockey

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Nill's awesome. He should be our GM now. At least he has a pulse. What a crazy trade though. It works out for both teams quite a bit, and as Bench said losing Eriksson and Morrow is a huge blow. However, Seguin's ceiling is the sky. Peverly will fit in nicely in their bottom 6 too.

 

[SportsballChic]

1) I don't know that Boston was looking to trade him to a team in it's own division. They're a little arrogant but that's pretty much saying "we think Seguin is a bust." I dunno, I think that'd be a factor.

2) We don't have anyone as good as they gave up. Although I will concede "that guy"'s point that if Nyquist or Tatar had been given more playing time; MAYBE we could have? But speaking of "unicorns"; we didn't and we therefore don't have that kind of asset.

Unless like I said, you'd like them to move Z or Kronner? Cause that's the only way we're getting a former #2 overall draft pick afaict... and we'll probably have to give extra due to age. Really.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

1) I don't know that Boston was looking to trade him to a team in it's own division. They're a little arrogant but that's pretty much saying "we think Seguin is a bust." I dunno, I think that'd be a factor.

2) We don't have anyone as good as they gave up. Although I will concede "that guy"'s point that if Nyquist or Tatar had been given more playing time; MAYBE we could have? But speaking of "unicorns"; we didn't and we therefore don't have that kind of asset.

Unless like I said, you'd like them to move Z or Kronner? Cause that's the only way we're getting a former #2 overall draft pick afaict... and we'll probably have to give extra due to age. Really.

He's got character issues evidently.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I think acquiring Seguin would be a great idea for every team not named Pittsburgh

Oh come on, you know what I'm asking you.

Bob: Again I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great move to acquire Seguin. I'm saying the Stars had a greater need to acquire a potentially great center more than we currently do. It is definitely something we need to look at for the future, but I won't freak out if the situation isn't rectified this offseason.

 

[SportsballChic]

He's got character issues evidently.

I don't doubt Boston is giving up on him; that's why the deal makes sense from their perspective.

But "he's not worth the trouble" isn't the same as "we think he sucks so bad we wouldn't care if we played him 6 times a year and playoffs. Our fans will NEVER say "why did you trade Tyler" because he just sucks that bad".

I think the later is what it would have taken for Boston to send him to the division. Dallas gets the "Western Conference Team We Will Never Play" bonus points here. Ya know?

Just a theory obviously; but it's not like they'd be the first team to say "ship his ass to the other side of the country please, I don't want to see him again".

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Oh come on, you know what I'm asking you.

Bob: Again I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great move to acquire Seguin. I'm saying the Stars had a greater need to acquire a potentially great center more than we currently do. It is definitely something we need to look at for the future, but I won't freak out if the situation isn't rectified this offseason.

i dont know what you're asking me


if you're asking me if dallas needed seguin more then us, then no I dont think thats the case

if anything, dallas quite possibly needed seguin less then we do they just simply had the assets to acquire him

 

[ArGarBarGar]

How was Dallas at center before they got Seguin?