Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition Pt. IV

[MJ65]

Ever since the season has started we have been discussing non stop and come up with different speculations and suggestions. I am not against any thing but not sure what we are achieving with it

This management group is so tight lipped that no one can speculate any thing and no one is sure what's going to happen at this deadline and then what FA we are going to sign - but this is not a secret that there are going to be some changes made come next season and I believe at least Bozak is not coming back next season

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Damn that would have been great.

Isn't he essentially a RHD version of Gardiner? I would think the Leafs look to add fewer offensive defensemen and more defensemen who can be responsible in their own zone and handle more defensive minutes. AKA guys more like Trouba, Tanev or better anyone really like Hainsey but maybe more skill.

I do not think Barrie would be a good fit for either Rielly nor Gardiner so that really begs the question of whether we'd even acquire him to be a true top 4 defenseman.

 

[SprDaVE]

Isn't he essentially a RHD version of Gardiner? I would think the Leafs look to add fewer offensive defensemen and more defensemen who can be responsible in their own zone and handle more defensive minutes. I do not think Barrie would be a good fit for either Rielly nor Gardiner so that really begs the question of whether we'd even acquire him to be a true top 4 defenseman.

He's better than Gardiner and signed a few more seasons. Who knows what the deal was, which could have meant Gardiner being traded due to our decent LHD depth.

He's a quality offensive defenseman and very underrated.

 

[rumman]

It absolutely doesn't mean that it's over. What it means is we are flat out stupid and willing to give ground to other teams that will make such decisions and become better for it. It doesn't matter if such teams use proceeds to trade for upgrades or draft, the point is that they will be getting better by injecting assets into their organization.

couldn't agree more.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I’m on the fence about trading the Leafs guys, but with the Leafs situation, I’d say the signs are pointing to none of the UFAs returning next year. Which would more or less put them in the same situation as Tampa was, no?

more than likely. it be v. curious to see what happens.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He's better than Gardiner and signed a few more seasons. Who knows what the deal was, which could have meant Gardiner being traded due to our decent LHD depth.

He's a quality offensive defenseman and very underrated.

I know what Roy said about him but in what ways is he really different than someone like Shattenkirk?

I get quality is quality but sometimes you need to get the right qualities too. Can't just go out and say this guy has a RH shot and is top 4 quality and immediate assume he fills a need for us. If anything he would create problems because he likely forces Polak out of the lineup (barring even more disastrous decisions being made) which means we are back down to a 3 man PK unit but have 3 guys who can PP well when this team clearly prefers a 4:1 forward:defenseman ratio on the PP. Frankly this team is not lacking in puck moving defensemen right now, and will not be lacking them any time in the near future with Dermott, Liljegren and others coming up. And come playoff time, will he still be effective, or would he fade like Shattenkirk did?

Even if we trade Gardiner for him, we still are essentially just shuffling the deck with the defense rather than getting a meaningful upgrade. Barrie's better in some areas but worse in others, so it could all end up in the wash in the end and nothing ends up seriously changing for the team besides the dynamics.

 

[Trapper]

some differences.
1; if they know said player is not going to sign w/them - it's easier to cut bait
2: if you know that you have no cap space for said players, it's easier to cut bait

so, if you feel that having ___________ here (it doesn't have to be leafs/their UFA), or you feel you can get a deal done, then it's not 'time to move on'.

(and w/Drouin, i think once he sat out, refused to report, and then Montreal gift-wrapped a top 4 defenseman in their lap, it was v. easy to make that deal. no one is doing that for us).

You're right Daisy we don't know what management has planned.

IMO they shouldn't be signed. I would not commmit long term to a complimentary piece. You add a JVR as a finishing piece. Kind of how Nashville will probably add a winger.
I don't want the same 2 players back assuming the same sheltered minutes in pretty much the same lineup spot. If we want to evolve we need to take the next step, adding faster, younger, more aggressive players is in order. A better compliment to a rush + fore-check system. Better defensively with scoring that can play up and down the lineup.

 

[SprDaVE]

I know what Roy said about him but in what ways is he really different than someone like Shattenkirk?

I get quality is quality but sometimes you need to get the right qualities too. Can't just go out and say this guy has a RH shot and is top 4 quality and immediate assume he fills a need for us. If anything he would create problems because he likely forces Polak out of the lineup (barring even more disastrous decisions being made) which means we are back down to a 3 man PK unit but have 3 guys who can PP well when this team clearly prefers a 4:1 forward:defenseman ratio on the PP. Frankly this team is not lacking in puck moving defensemen right now, and will not be lacking them any time in the near future with Dermott, Liljegren and others coming up. And come playoff time, will he still be effective, or would he fade like Shattenkirk did?

Even if we trade Gardiner for him, we still are essentially just shuffling the deck with the defense rather than getting a meaningful upgrade. Barrie's better in some areas but worse in others, so it could all end up in the wash in the end and nothing ends up seriously changing for the team besides the dynamics.

I think everytime you can upgrade and the price makes sense you do in a sense. That's all.

Gardiner is older and not as productive. He's good, but to me Barrie is one of the better producing defenseman out there. Maybe it wasn't serious dicussions, maybe Gardiner was going the other day... I dunno.

Barrie plays a natural side we have little depth in, so maybe that explains why we were interested. Get younger, better for someone likely not retained past his contract.

 

[Barilko14]

Ever since the season has started we have been discussing non stop and come up with different speculations and suggestions. I am not against any thing but not sure what we are achieving with it

This management group is so tight lipped that no one can speculate any thing and no one is sure what's going to happen at this deadline and then what FA we are going to sign - but this is not a secret that there are going to be some changes made come next season and I believe at least Bozak is not coming back next season

Seeing as Bozak's minutes have declined every year Babcock has been here, with the the new faceoff rules he's only avg. on the draw, and age appears to be catching up to him, I really don't see any way Bozak is here next year.

Leo, if he can't score he's pretty well a defensively responsible Martin, which we don't need. A young guy can fill his PK shoes next year, I'd say it's a 5% he comes back.

JVR - I would have put it at 50/50 chance of being re-signed, but Mirtle saying there has been zero contract talks leads me to believe that number is high. IMO there's a 25% chance JVR comes back. Few other articles have mentioned his talking to current and former players about their experiences with free agency, so i would say it's pretty likely he at least sees July 1st.

Plans can change after the draft and after July 1st though.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think everytime you can upgrade and the price makes sense you do in a sense. That's all.

Gardiner is older and not as productive. He's good, but to me Barrie is one of the better producing defenseman out there. Maybe it wasn't serious dicussions, maybe Gardiner was going the other day... I dunno.

Barrie plays a natural side we have little depth in, so maybe that explains why we were interested. Get younger, better for someone likely not retained past his contract.

Fair enough. I think it's overselling the few qualities he'd bring over Gardiner, so I'd look for a more impactful and clear upgrade, but doing due diligence is never a bad idea.

I'd also not want to deal with Sakic after he gouged on the price for Duchene. Probably would do it even more with Barrie.

 

[ToneDog]

Fair enough. I think it's overselling the few qualities he'd bring over Gardiner, so I'd look for a more impactful and clear upgrade, but doing due diligence is never a bad idea.

I'd also not want to deal with Sakic after he gouged on the price for Duchene. Probably would do it even more with Barrie.

Credit Sakic for holding out as Yzerman did, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Trapper]

Seeing as Bozak's minutes have declined every year Babcock has been here, with the the new faceoff rules he's only avg. on the draw, and age appears to be catching up to him, I really don't see any way Bozak is here next year.

Leo, if he can't score he's pretty well a defensively responsible Martin, which we don't need. A young guy can fill his PK shoes next year, I'd say it's a 5% he comes back.

JVR - I would have put it at 50/50 chance of being re-signed, but Mirtle saying there has been zero contract talks leads me to believe that number is high. IMO there's a 25% chance JVR comes back. Few other articles have mentioned his talking to current and former players about their experiences with free agency, so i would say it's pretty likely he at least sees July 1st.

Plans can change after the draft and after July 1st though.

Well this all leads to what is management planning?
Some remarks have been cryptic.
Babcock saying we have 4 players but probably can only keep 2.
Saying how he admires Tampa for knowing when it's time to move on and gain assets.
The rumoured trying to move JVR at the draft.
JVR saying he wants to stay on a home town deal but the Leafs never saying they want him to stay.
They could have re-signed JVR in the summer (like they did Kadri) if he was in the long term plans but didn't.
Before we signed Kadri long term Babcock saying he hopes Kadri makes the team pay.
These lead me to believe a player you intend to keep vs. not.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You're right Daisy we don't know what management has planned.

IMO they shouldn't be signed. I would not commmit long term to a complimentary piece. You add a JVR as a finishing piece. Kind of how Nashville will probably add a winger.
I don't want the same 2 players back assuming the same sheltered minutes in pretty much the same lineup spot. If we want to evolve we need to take the next step, adding faster, younger, more aggressive players is in order. A better compliment to a rush + fore-check system. Better defensively with scoring that can play up and down the lineup.

francis i know has some good reasons why JVR should be here, and so honestly, i'm kinda in the air w/him.
you can argue that JVR is a finishing piece - however you could keep him as you continue to get the other pieces you need and thus not have to worry about getting a JVR. you have him.

you know me, basically i would trade the majority of the team if it mean getting better pieces so i'm just more curious what Lou will do because if he doesn't trade those three (and he has reasons not to, which is fair), doesn't sign them, and doesn't get good (younger) pieces as well as whatever he gets in the summer - cranky , cranky Daisy.

 

[Trapper]

francis i know has some good reasons why JVR should be here, and so honestly, i'm kinda in the air w/him.
you can argue that JVR is a finishing piece - however you could keep him as you continue to get the other pieces you need and thus not have to worry about getting a JVR. you have him.

you know me, basically i would trade the majority of the team if it mean getting better pieces so i'm just more curious what Lou will do because if he doesn't trade those three (and he has reasons not to, which is fair), doesn't sign them, and doesn't get good (younger) pieces as well as whatever he gets in the summer - cranky , cranky Daisy.

Well Daisy it's going to be a very interesting summer.
With so many UFAs there will be lots of debates. People who are fine with keeping him in the now (if he walks for nothing) just may change their tune in the later with nothing in hand. Especially after our playoff run is determined. Should be some interesting threads. From what I've gathered, 50% are probably good with letting him walk gratis. Then there is the re-sign him long term camp. I like neither option.
Assets please is my wish list. Like (from your posts) you keep waiting and hoping Lou pulls in a defenseman you like, I'm hoping we get a 1st + prospect. These things can possibly be used to address both our wants.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well Daisy it's going to be a very interesting summer.
With so many UFAs there will be lots of debates. People who are fine with keeping him in the now (if he walks for nothing) just may change their tune in the later with nothing in hand. Especially after our playoff run is determined. Should be some interesting threads. From what I've gathered, 50% are probably good with letting him walk gratis. Then there is the re-sign him long term camp. I like neither option.
Assets please is my wish list. Like (from your posts) you keep waiting and hoping Lou pulls in a defenseman you like, I'm hoping we get a 1st + prospect. These things can possibly be used to address both our wants.

well again.
"nothing" is relative.

freeing up that much money can go for someone in the summer.

i just don't think what we have = top prospect. (heck i don't even think JVR brings in a 1st. not now). He + Komarov should have been traded about 2 years ago to get in a price like tha.

 

[Barilko14]

well again.
"nothing" is relative.

freeing up that much money can go for someone in the summer.

i just don't think what we have = top prospect. (heck i don't even think JVR brings in a 1st. not now). He + Komarov should have been traded about 2 years ago to get in a price like tha.

30 goal scorers bring back 1st+ at the deadline, rental or not.

 

[Daisy Jane]

30 goal scorers bring back 1st+ at the deadline, rental or not.

we hope.
also we'll see.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Would anyone consider Bouwmeester out of STL as a potential top 4 option for the team?

i.e. If the Leafs were to have a lineup that looked something like (presuming Polak and Gardiner are traded):

2017-2018
Rielly-Hainsey
Bouwmeester-Carrick/Dermott
Borgman-Zaitsev

2018-2019
Rielly-Hainsey
Bouwmeester-Dermott/Ozhiganov/Carrick
Borgman-Zaitsev

It's essentially the same idea as trying to acquire any other defenseman but this one is not Doughty level, nor a RD who may be overpriced like Tanev, but still has the quality and style that could fit well with Babcock and not cost us a lot to acquire. Of course it sucks that Dermott (or Bouwmeester) would have to play their off side to make it work out perfectly, or Dermott/Borgman would not be in the lineup full time, but otherwise would people be up for that?

Spoiler: If Bouwmeester is someone you think the Leafs could realistically consider to help the team and defense:

Jay Bouwmeester
Jordan Kyrou
2nd round pick 2018


Jake Gardiner
Nikita Soshnikov

Some alternatives which can be considered:
1) Soshnikov ---> Komarov, Leivo, Carrick, Polak, or a prospect (salary considerations may apply). This is a consideration for both teams to considered.
2) Leafs add another asset.
3) Blues add/upgrade pick. Taking out assets is also possible but at some point it is not worth it for the Leafs.
4) Kyrou becomes someone else, but I thought he was the best expendable asset we could get.

 

[Barilko14]

we hope.
also we'll see.

Boyle got a 2nd. Eaves got a 2nd.

I think it's pretty well a guarantee that JVR is worth more than that.

We probably will never know what's he's worth in a trade though (at least not with the Leafs).

 

[Trapper]

Boyle got a 2nd. Eaves got a 2nd.

I think it's pretty well a guarantee that JVR is worth more than that.

We probably will never know what's he's worth in a trade though (at least not with the Leafs).

It depends.
Hoffman,Patches,Kane could give us an idea (if they are moved at the deadline).

 

[Mugzy97]

well again.
"nothing" is relative.

freeing up that much money can go for someone in the summer.

i just don't think what we have = top prospect. (heck i don't even think JVR brings in a 1st. not now). He + Komarov should have been traded about 2 years ago to get in a price like tha.

100% agree we should have moved Komarov and JVR a couple of years ago for assets, but JVR still holds a high value and will definitely get a 1st if he’s moved for assets now. Much worse players have returned 1sts before.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Leo might end up being our 4C and Bozak will most likely be traded at the TDL for hopefully a late 1st.
JVR, I have a feeling he will be extend by the Leafs under 6mil for 7 yrs. 6'3, 30 goals scoring winger is very rare.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I think Leo might end up being our 4C and Bozak will most likely be traded at the TDL for hopefully a late 1st.
JVR, I have a feeling he will be extend by the Leafs under 6mil for 7 yrs. 6'3, 30 goals scoring winger is very rare.

Here I’ll fix it for you

6mil for 7 yrs.
6’3 plays like 5’5 and soft
30 goals scoring winger
With no defence who is a defensive liability on the ice for 50 goals against
Very rare

 

[Barilko14]

I think Leo might end up being our 4C and Bozak will most likely be traded at the TDL for hopefully a late 1st.
JVR, I have a feeling he will be extend by the Leafs under 6mil for 7 yrs. 6'3, 30 goals scoring winger is very rare.

Leo + Martin as 2 fixtures on the 4th line will spend their entire season in their own end.
Bozak won't be traded at the deadline as Marleau doesn't love C, and Babs does not trust Nylander there.
Jvr was 6'3 and a 30 goal scorer coming into this season as well, so why have they not talked contract with him once?
The home town discount probably had an expiry date.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think that's very accurate. I guess he's on the smaller side + skilled + good skater, which seems to fit the same mould for a number of our forwards.

But he's also a guy that can play the PK, can play tough minutes against other teams scoring lines, take defensive zone starts reliably, etc. Our biggest team weakness is team defence, so one of Kapanen's strengths directly addresses that.

Is he a big bad bruiser? No. But I'd rather have a skilled smooth skating two-way player, then a big physical forward that hits guys, but isn't better than Kapanen defensively.

Keep in mind Ritchie is PKing in Anaheim, isn't bad defensively. I don't think Kapanen has had a fair shot in our NHL line up yet.