Rumor: Toronto interested in Thornton

[WantonAbandon]

I was under the impression that Burns was initially moved to winger because he was dealing with an injury that made it difficult for him to play D at the top of his abilities, and at the same time the team was struggling to get scoring.

In his only full season at D with the Sharks he performed just fine.

Burns being good or not had no bearing on his move to PF.(His D #'s were pretty good). Sharks had NOTHING on the offensive side and needed a spark,change,something,anything. Burns filled that role beautifully. I still think it is a mistake taking Burns off the PF position. Between trades and UFA/RFA we could still field a solid defensive team and leave Burns at PF, where we now have a gaping hole.

As for comparing Burns skills to Drew or Duncan, I'd say Burns is the better skater but both those players(D & D) have had excellent teammates during their career and played D their whole life(Burns converted to a Dman.) So they should be alittle better knowledge-wise/playing wise at the position. But to say BB cant hang with those 2 is being abit over-the-top imo. Burns being mired in Minnesota for 5yrs didn't help his stats.

If Burns could hold a candle to Keith or Doughty the Sharks would never have moved him from the blue line, period... They certainly wouldn't have put him there for an entire 82 game season. He has never been that good.

As for the rest of the blue line because I am feeling lazy lets stick to the Hawks

Other than Keith, you have: Seabrook, Leddy, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, and Rozsival. Anyone of those five guys would be a huge upgrade to the Sharks blueline. With the Sharks blueline you have Vlasic, Braun, and the expendables.

 

[chris39bong]

I was under the impression that Burns was initially moved to winger because he was dealing with an injury that made it difficult for him to play D at the top of his abilities, and at the same time the team was struggling to get scoring.

In his only full season at D with the Sharks he performed just fine.

That's what I remember. He was suffering through a groin injury (can't remember if it happened the end of his 1st season in SJ or camp/early his 2nd season in SJ). That said, I wasn't super impressed with Burns play in SJ his first season. Loved his size, shot, and ability to skate the puck out of the zone. His defense was average, actually probably above average but he did make more mistakes than most $5.5+ mil dmen. But the area I thought he was lacking was his outlet pass. That's where Boyle and Demers still excel compared to most dmen. Burns is an upgrade defensively than Boyle, but not resigning Boyle is going to hurt the Sharks if another puck mover (like Gardiner) isn't brought in.

I'm worried because trading Thornton could make or break the team for the next few years depending on the return. I think a trade like the proposed Kadri + Gardiner might actually be a wash for the Sharks talent wise and help rebuild/refresh. Sharks would stay three deep at center. The D would look fantastic with Vlasic-Demers, Gardiner-Braun, Stuart-Burns. The Sharks lose some scoring up front without Burns and JT>Kadri, but hopefully bigger roles for Hertl & Nieto and a healthy Torres could offset that. Or, bringing in a UFA like Iginla for 1-year would be a big boost made possible with the Havlat buyout and not jeopardize the long-term ability to re-sign RFAs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Burns could hold a candle to Keith or Doughty the Sharks would never have moved him from the blue line, period... They certainly wouldn't have put him there for an entire 82 game season. He has never been that good.

As for the rest of the blue line because I am feeling lazy lets stick to the Hawks

Other than Keith, you have: Seabrook, Leddy, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, and Rozsival. Anyone of those five guys would be a huge upgrade to the Sharks blueline. With the Sharks blueline you have Vlasic, Braun, and the expendables.

Laughable that you think Demers is worse than Oduya and Rozsival to the point that the latter are not expendable yet Demers is. That is extremely ridiculous.

 

[chris39bong]

If Burns could hold a candle to Keith or Doughty the Sharks would never have moved him from the blue line, period... They certainly wouldn't have put him there for an entire 82 game season. He has never been that good.

As for the rest of the blue line because I am feeling lazy lets stick to the Hawks

Other than Keith, you have: Seabrook, Leddy, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, and Rozsival. Anyone of those five guys would be a huge upgrade to the Sharks blueline. With the Sharks blueline you have Vlasic, Braun, and the expendables.

I still think Vlasic, Burns, Bruan, and Demers are a respectable top 4. But I agree that Stuart, Hannan, and Irwin (the last two I like at $1M though) are "expendable", but they are valuable 6th/7th dmen. The Sharks only need one more top-4 guy (Gardiner) in order to look very solid IMO. Tennyson also needs a bounce back year. He could make Irwin expendable next year and eventually step into a 2nd pairing role if all goes well. I haven't seen Tennyson much, but his style reminds me of Shattenkirk when he was first coming up.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Laughable that you think Demers is worse than Oduya and Rozsival to the point that the latter are not expendable yet Demers is. That is extremely ridiculous.

So Jason Demers is better than two of Chicago's starting six. It seems like you may be conceding that Seabrook, Leddy, and Hjalmarsson are all better than he is. That appears to be some progress.

I would point out that Oduya is part of the top four where Leddy is not.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So Jason Demers is better than two of Chicago's starting six. It seems like you may be conceding that Seabrook, Leddy, and Hjalmarsson are all better than he is. That appears to be some progress.

I would point out that Oduya is part of the top four where Leddy is not.

You would be wrong that I'm conceding that. Being better than another player doesn't change your status with regards to being expendable. Oduya being in the top four has absolutely nothing to do with it either. Leddy would be deemed not expendable due to his age and potential. If being in the top four mattered, Demers wouldn't be expendable to you but he is. And for the record, I happen to believe Demers is better than at least three of their six...possibly four. But the biggest point of emphasis I would like to get across is how much of a joke it is to put Rozsival in that category be it expendable or better than Demers. Either of those things are ridiculously uninformed opinions.

 

[WantonAbandon]

You would be wrong that I'm conceding that. Being better than another player doesn't change your status with regards to being expendable. Oduya being in the top four has absolutely nothing to do with it either. Leddy would be deemed not expendable due to his age and potential. If being in the top four mattered, Demers wouldn't be expendable to you but he is. And for the record, I happen to believe Demers is better than at least three of their six...possibly four. But the biggest point of emphasis I would like to get across is how much of a joke it is to put Rozsival in that category be it expendable or better than Demers. Either of those things are ridiculously uninformed opinions.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Demers being in the top four just means he is better than Stuart, Hannan and Iwrin.

I actually think Leddy would be the third best defensman on the Sharks if somehow acquired. At this point Oduya is better than Leddy and Chicago certainly thought so.

As far as Demers possibly being better than four of Chicago's dmen... are you trying to imply that Demers might be better than Seabrook or Hjalmarsson?

 

[Gilligans Island]

You are comparing apples and oranges. Demers being in the top four just means he is better than Stuart, Hannan and Iwrin.

I actually think Leddy would be the third best defensman on the Sharks if somehow acquired. At this point Oduya is better than Leddy and Chicago certainly thought so.

As far as Demers possibly being better than four of Chicago's dmen... are you trying to imply that Demers might be better than Seabrook or Hjalmarsson?

What? Leddy is better than one of Vlasic, Braun or Burns? Dude..

Edit: forgot you're a Burns-hater and not objective.

 

[WantonAbandon]

What? Leddy is better than one of Vlasic, Braun or Burns? Dude..

Edit: forgot you're a Burns-hater and not objective.

I actually forgot about burns. I was thinking of last seasons blue line with burns at forward. I think burns is a bit of an unknown at this point. If burns can bounce back to where he was then probably not. Keep in mind that leddy was on Chicagos second pp unit however. He is actually quite good.

 

[Gilligans Island]

I actually forgot about burns. I was thinking of last seasons blue line with burns at forward. I think burns is a bit of an unknown at this point. If burns can bounce back to where he was then probably not. Keep in mind that leddy was on Chicagos second pp unit however. He is actually quite good.

I've seen Leddy - I watch the Hawks as much as I can when they're on.

I like his game but he has defensive gaffes like Demers does.

If we get him, I'd say our D stacks up as:

Vlasic
Braun
Burns

Leddy | Demers

??

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You are comparing apples and oranges. Demers being in the top four just means he is better than Stuart, Hannan and Iwrin.

I actually think Leddy would be the third best defensman on the Sharks if somehow acquired. At this point Oduya is better than Leddy and Chicago certainly thought so.

As far as Demers possibly being better than four of Chicago's dmen... are you trying to imply that Demers might be better than Seabrook or Hjalmarsson?

Not really. We're talking about who is expendable and who isn't. Who that may be completely depends on what team you're on and who they have at that point and what direction the team is going in. Leddy is not better than Demers and neither is Oduya. Oduya isn't even better than Leddy. The only reason that Oduya plays more than Leddy is because of the way Chicago utilizes their d-men. Oduya is paired with Hjalmarsson and that's their shutdown pair. Leddy's not going to crack that because he's not a shutdown type d-man. Keith-Seabrook is their production pairing who aren't shabby defensive players either obviously and Leddy isn't unseating those two anytime soon.

Demers may be better than Hjalmarsson is my implication. Demers' offensive ability far surpasses Hjalmarsson but Hjalmarsson is far better defensively than Demers which is why it is a may. Difference being that Demers has been steadily improving defensively whereas Hjalmarsson hasn't offensively.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Not really. We're talking about who is expendable and who isn't. Who that may be completely depends on what team you're on and who they have at that point and what direction the team is going in. Leddy is not better than Demers and neither is Oduya. Oduya isn't even better than Leddy. The only reason that Oduya plays more than Leddy is because of the way Chicago utilizes their d-men. Oduya is paired with Hjalmarsson and that's their shutdown pair. Leddy's not going to crack that because he's not a shutdown type d-man. Keith-Seabrook is their production pairing who aren't shabby defensive players either obviously and Leddy isn't unseating those two anytime soon.

Demers may be better than Hjalmarsson is my implication. Demers' offensive ability far surpasses Hjalmarsson but Hjalmarsson is far better defensively than Demers which is why it is a may. Difference being that Demers has been steadily improving defensively whereas Hjalmarsson hasn't offensively.

I'm not suggesting the sharks turnover all four blue liners I mentioned. That would be nuts. That would be akin to turning over the bottom six forwards. I do think if the trade involves another blue liner demers would be expendable.

I think your demers being better that hjalmarrsson logic could be used to conclude that demers is better than vlasic

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not suggesting the sharks turnover all four blue liners I mentioned. That would be nuts. That would be akin to turning over the bottom six forwards. I do think if the trade involves another blue liner demers would be expendable.

I think your demers being better that hjalmarrsson logic could be used to conclude that demers is better than vlasic

Not if one believes that Vlasic is on a different level than Hjalmarsson. Same type but different play quality.

 

[LadyStanley]

RandallPnkFloyd 9:39pm via TweetDeck
The Hawks trading for Joe Thornton would only be worth it if he scored four goals in a game.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Article speculates about a JT for Phaneuf swap:
http://isport.blesk.cz/clanek/hokej...r-v-san-jose-premysli-o-vymene-thorntona.html

Clearly the only reason the article was written is because JT is perceived as Hertl's mentor.

Another article saying Havlat will be bought out:
http://isport.blesk.cz/clanek/hokej...n-jose-klub-ho-hodla-vyplatit-ze-smlouvy.html

 

[67 others]

If Burns could hold a candle to Keith or Doughty the Sharks would never have moved him from the blue line, period... They certainly wouldn't have put him there for an entire 82 game season. He has never been that good.

As for the rest of the blue line because I am feeling lazy lets stick to the Hawks

Other than Keith, you have: Seabrook, Leddy, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, and Rozsival. Anyone of those five guys would be a huge upgrade to the Sharks blueline. With the Sharks blueline you have Vlasic, Braun, and the expendables.

They moved Burns because at the time, his lateral skating and ability to turn quickly was a hinderance. It was a way for him to keep skating till he recovered enough to go back.

What ended up happening was that him and Joe Thornton became the best puck possession duo in the league, and Demers emerged enough to keep him up front without hurting the right side defense too much.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Not really. We're talking about who is expendable and who isn't. Who that may be completely depends on what team you're on and who they have at that point and what direction the team is going in. Leddy is not better than Demers and neither is Oduya. Oduya isn't even better than Leddy. The only reason that Oduya plays more than Leddy is because of the way Chicago utilizes their d-men. Oduya is paired with Hjalmarsson and that's their shutdown pair. Leddy's not going to crack that because he's not a shutdown type d-man. Keith-Seabrook is their production pairing who aren't shabby defensive players either obviously and Leddy isn't unseating those two anytime soon.

Demers may be better than Hjalmarsson is my implication. Demers' offensive ability far surpasses Hjalmarsson but Hjalmarsson is far better defensively than Demers which is why it is a may. Difference being that Demers has been steadily improving defensively whereas Hjalmarsson hasn't offensively.

I don't think Demers is better than Hjalmarsson, but he shows some grit and plays bigger than his size. That competitiveness cannot be taught. He's also getting better every year and hasn't topped out.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

Apparently Spezza has asked to be moved, he has one year left at 7M. Would he be a good match in teal? I just don't know his game...

I'm thinking Spezza ++ for Jumbo.

 

[Timo Time]

Spezza does not come near this team. Please no.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Apparently Spezza has asked to be moved, he has one year left at 7M. Would he be a good match in teal? I just don't know his game...

I'm thinking Spezza ++ for Jumbo.

I hope not. If they do trade Thornton, it better be for a defenseman.

 

[Eighth Fret]

Apparently Spezza has asked to be moved, he has one year left at 7M. Would he be a good match in teal? I just don't know his game...

I'm thinking Spezza ++ for Jumbo.

He would not be a good fit for us.

 

[magic school bus]

Apparently Spezza has asked to be moved, he has one year left at 7M. Would he be a good match in teal? I just don't know his game...

I'm thinking Spezza ++ for Jumbo.

Lol. Trade for him & he'll walk in a year.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Apparently Spezza has asked to be moved, he has one year left at 7M. Would he be a good match in teal? I just don't know his game...

I'm thinking Spezza ++ for Jumbo.

So trading JT for a worse version of JT?

 

[RainbowDash]

RandallPnkFloyd 9:39pm via TweetDeck
The Hawks trading for Joe Thornton would only be worth it if he scored four goals in a game.

NHL headline : Joe strokes his Blackhawk.

 

[Coy]

I would much rather retain half the salary for Joe and get a ton from the Blackhawks hopefully something like Leddy + TT/Saad.