This is a Bad Hockey Team 2017-18

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will1066

Fonz Drury
Oct 12, 2008
44,126
60,413
How many of those has he made? It's not too many.

Not to mention that he HAS to be the one to move the puck out of his own end when Staal is out there since the latter is the worst at it in the league. Teams know this.

Saying that he's made some bad passes is fine, saying that hes been bad all together is something I can't get behind and saying that hes been bad in his own zone (which passing the puck has nothing to do with) is flat out incorrect.

Hope you watched tonight's game and saw what I was talking about. He was paired with DeAngelo, a puck mover, so the Staal argument doesn't wash anymore. Just glaring giveaways. Starts the second period with two giveaways on the first shift.
 

McD27

Registered User
Jul 11, 2013
1,102
26
I wish we have Step, G and Raanta back.

ADA and Shat both are turnover machines and can't play D
 

GoAwayPanarin

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May 27, 2008
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Hope you watched tonight's game and saw what I was talking about. He was paired with DeAngelo, a puck mover, so the Staal argument doesn't wash anymore. Just glaring giveaways. Starts the second period with two giveaways on the first shift.


Yup, saw it. It was actually the first shift of the third.

Hasn't been common place with him regardless.
 

Savant

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Oct 3, 2013
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They need a coaching change and/or a Duchene type trade to save the season.

Stupid half measure off season. You can’t spend all that money on dmen and then not replace your top center if you want to contend.

They had a very good opportunity to hit the reset button this summer and yet they keep letting AV kick the Can.
 

Irishguy42

Mr. Preachy
Sep 11, 2015
26,823
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Using +/- to make a point in 2017. Laughable.

Do you also even notice who tops the league in turnovers each season? Yeah, I bet players like Karlsson, Doughty, Burns, Subban, etc. are all awful defensemen.
 
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McD27

Registered User
Jul 11, 2013
1,102
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Using +/- to make a point in 2017. Laughable.

Do you also even notice who tops the league in turnovers each season? Yeah, I bet players like Karlsson, Doughty, Burns, Subban, etc. are all awful defensemen.

and what are their +/-? do you even know what +/- means?

as example, our team was -1 tonight as it's a loss. That's laughable?
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,689
113,329
NYC
the-mind.jpg


plus/minus
 

Irishguy42

Mr. Preachy
Sep 11, 2015
26,823
19,086
NJ
and what are their +/-? do you even know what +/- means?

as example, our team was -1 tonight as it's a loss. That's laughable?
Oh lordy...

giphy.gif


Yes, of course I know what +/- is. If you knew what it is, you'd realize it's useless too.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,677
23,615
New York
Girardi is way worse than Shattenkirk and ADA

Girardi is way worse than ADA? Can you explain that one?

Makes absolutely no sense, ADA has proven nothing in the NHL, and I like his game and don't like how AV uses him.

Shattenkirk and Girardi are polar opposite hockey players, its a worthless comparison. I guess it depends how you rate Shattenkirk. Some say he's a 3rd pair PP specialist, some say 1st pair defensemen, others say 2nd pair. For Girardi to be way worse, I would think you'd have to think Shattenkirk's a first pair defensemen.

Many here disliked Girardi due to advanced stats, but Tampa fans are liking his contribution. They barely mention him, and when they do, its usually to say he played well. People here said he was the worst defensemen in the NHL, yet Tampa has many defensemen who are criticized before him, so he's clearly not even the worst defensemen on his own team, which shows how out of touch with reality that assessment was. And his early corsi stats are very good, so you can't even complain about that. He's playing 2nd pair minutes with Coburn (#3 and 4 on the team among D in TOI), their ice time is right about the same, they are playing on the same pair. Frankly, I think many here are going to have to reevaluate their stance. Has he really gotten that much better or maybe our fan base overreacts? He'll probably even have a better chance to win a Cup than he would've had the last number of years with our team had he not been bought out. Tampa seems to have a very good team, one of the Cup favorites this year.
 

Oscar Lindberg

Registered User
Dec 14, 2015
15,643
14,464
CA
I wake up everyday and thank god Girardi is someone else’s headache now

And plus/minus is a flawed stat, and shouldn’t be taken seriously at all
 

Revel

Dark Sky Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2015
6,189
243
Dunning–Krugerville
Girardi is way worse than ADA? Can you explain that one?

Makes absolutely no sense, ADA has proven nothing in the NHL, and I like his game and don't like how AV uses him.

Shattenkirk and Girardi are polar opposite hockey players, its a worthless comparison. I guess it depends how you rate Shattenkirk. Some say he's a 3rd pair PP specialist, some say 1st pair defensemen, others say 2nd pair. For Girardi to be way worse, I would think you'd have to think Shattenkirk's a first pair defensemen.

Many here disliked Girardi due to advanced stats, but Tampa fans are liking his contribution. They barely mention him, and when they do, its usually to say he played well. People here said he was the worst defensemen in the NHL, yet Tampa has many defensemen who are criticized before him, so he's clearly not even the worst defensemen on his own team, which shows how out of touch with reality that assessment was. And his early corsi stats are very good, so you can't even complain about that. He's playing 2nd pair minutes with Coburn (#3 and 4 on the team among D in TOI), their ice time is right about the same, they are playing on the same pair. Frankly, I think many here are going to have to reevaluate their stance. Has he really gotten that much better or maybe our fan base overreacts? He'll probably even have a better chance to win a Cup than he would've had the last number of years with our team had he not been bought out. Tampa seems to have a very good team, one of the Cup favorites this year.

PB - Does Tampa play a zone? If so, that's probably why Girardi's finding himself a groove.
 
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Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,689
113,329
NYC
Yes, Girardi has had five games with Tampa where he hasn't been like, molten trash, but still a net negative.

Conglaturation.
 

NYR713

Registered User
Jun 26, 2012
2,084
282
The team is looking brutal. I don't know why every season there needs to be this month to 2-month adjustment period to AV's system and style of play, even for guys that have been in it. Because of what I've seen in the past concerning that "period" needed, I'll give Shatty and ADA a little leeway being completely new to it. I'm not a huge "Fire AV" guy, but this is getting a little ridiculous. If everybody isn't playing the system perfect, defensively, it's an absolute shit show and all 5 skaters on the shift are screwed because everyone is scrambling.

The 7 defensemen thing is moronic too. Carey and Cracknell can hit the bricks. Fast is back and either Nieves or Lettieri are perfectly fine options for the 4th line.
 

Hockeyplayer99

Registered User
Jul 31, 2005
716
172
G is -2 in 5 games

$6.65MM turnover machine is -6
Espo wannabe turnover machine is -4

I dunno what JG saw in ADA. Bring up Pionk. Get him outta here
'

Would rather have Stepan back, this trade is looking awful for the Rangers, ADA is terrible, Lias Andeson they are hoping he becomes a good 3 line Center. Good job in getting rid of your top Center and nothing to show for it.
 

SA16

Sixstring
Aug 25, 2006
13,354
12,684
Long Island
Pretty good research on the "6.65M turnover machine is -6" neglecting that -3 of that -6 are ENG allowed while he was on the ice since he's literally always going to be on the ice when the other team scores into the empty net.

But misleading stats are fun. And that's before you even consider that you're referencing a relatively meaningless stat in the first place.
 

nyr2k2

Can't Beat Him
Jul 30, 2005
45,706
32,920
Maryland
Hard to be anything other than super down on the team at the moment. However, I still firmly believe that the team is good. They need a change at the top, though. I think if you see a change in the next week you could see this team right in the thick of things by Thanksgiving.
 
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PlamsUnlimited

Big Church Bells
May 14, 2010
27,459
1,888
New York
Hard to be anything other than super down on the team at the moment. However, I still firmly believe that the team is good. They need a change at the top, though. I think if you see a change in the next week you could see this team right in the thick of things by Thanksgiving.
As in coaching staff or other when you say at the top? If they keep this up much longer they are going to be in pretty big danger of missing this year
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,924
7,453
New York
'

Would rather have Stepan back, this trade is looking awful for the Rangers, ADA is terrible, Lias Andeson they are hoping he becomes a good 3 line Center. Good job in getting rid of your top Center and nothing to show for it.

Stepan isn’t looking so good either, and he had an nmc for years now and he’s getting slower every year while the league gets faster.

Ada has played 6 games in a disasterous group where literally nobody has looked good for an entire game yet.
 

GoAwayPanarin

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Stepan isn’t looking so good either, and he had an nmc for years now and he’s getting slower every year while the league gets faster.

Ada has played 6 games in a disasterous group where literally nobody has looked good for an entire game yet.

He hasn't even played 6, he's played 3.

Young players are going to make mistakes. You have to be ready to deal with them.

Much more acceptable than watching slow footed, stone handed veterans puck watch and fall asleep on what eventually end up becoming game winning goals against.
 
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ponytrekker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
1,316
293
They need a coaching change and/or a Duchene type trade to save the season.

Stupid half measure off season. You can’t spend all that money on dmen and then not replace your top center if you want to contend.

They had a very good opportunity to hit the reset button this summer and yet they keep letting AV kick the Can.

ab8df9b66e75d9958dbef604ceca81ad.jpg
 
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