This is a Bad Hockey Team 2017-18

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Kaapo di tutti capi

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Jan 13, 2012
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Would rather have Stepan back, this trade is looking awful for the Rangers, ADA is terrible, Lias Andeson they are hoping he becomes a good 3 line Center. Good job in getting rid of your top Center and nothing to show for it.

ADA isn't terrible - he's young. He's going to make mistakes. I would have preferred to get a forward back in the trade, but that didn't happen - we got what we got and ADA isn't garbage.

They are hoping Lias becomes Stepan, which is much better than a 3rd line center - I'd say 3C is his floor - not his ceiling. I'm sure the Rangers wanted Glass, but he got taken by Vegas at #6. Lias was a decent pick at #7. (On a side note, Vegas seems to have really hurt us between taking Lindberg in the expansion draft and taking Glass at 6 - I think I'm starting to hate them :laugh:)

This wasn't an awful trade unless any trade that isn't a complete fleecing of the other team is considered awful.
 
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He hasn't even played 6, he's played 3.

Young players are going to make mistakes. You have to be ready to deal with them.

Much more acceptable than watching slow footed, stone handed veterans puck watch and fall asleep on what eventually end up becoming game winning goals against.

Well AV has the quickest hook when it comes to young players. That’s a problem.
 

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I mean it’s true. Halfway rebuilds/retools are really inefficient. If they don’t work, you are backed into a corner like the Rangers are right now. They are probably going to have to give McDonagh an extension in two years are they really can’t afford to. In the mean time, they have a nice young group of forwards, Pionk and Graves are close to, if not, NHL ready; and they already had the vets they could bridge them to. The reason they haven’t drafted elite players in because they haven’t been in the position to. They really should have hit the reset button this summer but they keep holding on.
 

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He honestly hasn't, thats the one positive I can say about him.

He loves himself some horrible defensemen though. I will give him credit for stapling Staal's ass to the bench last night, though he'll probably follow that up by giving him loads of ice time against Pittsburgh.

Also, Duchene is the wrong move for this team. Would be a panic move and and an extreme overpay for a guy who isn't the solution. Go as far as you can go with this team, preferably with another coach and see where you are in March. If its more of the same, sell off some parts (Nash,Grabner,Zucc, etc.) If they're in it, don't do anything stupid.
 

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ADA isn't terrible - he's young. He's going to make mistakes. I would have preferred to get a forward back in the trade, but that didn't happen - we got what we got and ADA isn't garbage.

They are hoping Lias becomes Stepan, which is much better than a 3rd line center - I'd say 3C is his floor - not his ceiling. I'm sure the Rangers wanted Glass, but he got taken by Vegas at #6. Lias was a decent pick at #7. (On a side note, Vegas seems to have really hurt us between taking Lindberg in the expansion draft and taking Glass at 6 - I think I'm starting to hate them :laugh:)

This wasn't an awful trade unless any trade that isn't a complete fleecing of the other team is considered awful.

Nothing wrong with the Stepan trade; if they are rebuilding. Andersson will be a nice player. As I said at the time, getting #7 for Stepan was great value. If you want to make the argument that they traded for the 7th pick in a six player draft, you can say that; but if none of those other six teams wanted Stepan, there isn’t really anything that you can do about it. The only player that I would have liked at 7 that went in that vicinity would have been Necas, but Andersson is safer, and Andersson checks off a lot of the boxes that the Rangers scout for. That being said Chytil looks very likely to out-perform his draft position.

The Rangers clearly wanted DeAngelo, but AV is the wrong coach for him.
 

Savant

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He honestly hasn't, thats the one positive I can say about him.

He loves himself some horrible defensemen though. I will give him credit for stapling Staal's ass to the bench last night, though he'll probably follow that up by giving him loads of ice time against Pittsburgh.

Also, Duchene is the wrong move for this team. Would be a panic move and and an extreme overpay for a guy who isn't the solution. Go as far as you can go with this team, preferably with another coach and see where you are in March. If its more of the same, sell off some parts (Nash,Grabner,Zucc, etc.) If they're in it, don't do anything stupid.

I disagree. It’s too late to do that because of the cap investment that they made into Shattenkirk and Smith. Duchene is the right move because their window is two more years and that’s when Duchene’s contract is out and they can reassess things. Of course it will be difficult to get a deal with Sakic, but the team obviously wanted to stay in contention and now they have to lay in that bed.

Duchene is great at face offs and is a shoot first center that will play well with the Rangers’ playmaking wingers. If they are going to keep Buchnevich on the Zibanejad/Kreider line, Duchene is the center that Zuccarello is screaming to play with.
 

GoAwayPanarin

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The cap investment shouldn't matter, these guys aren't here for just this season.

Duchene will be nearly impossible to fit in cap wise anyway so its really a moot point.
 

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The cap investment shouldn't matter, these guys aren't here for just this season.

Duchene will be nearly impossible to fit in cap wise anyway so its really a moot point.

Cap is everything. If they decided to rebuild and didn’t sign Smith and Shattenkirk that’s 11 million free.

Duchene fits in because he doesn’t have a ton of term. It’s workable within those two years he is signed for, which is as long as the Rangers window is open for.

D-Day is the McDonagh extension
 

GregSirico

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I might be in the minority here, but I am all for a complete overhaul of this organization (aside from JG). Coaching and Assistants all gone, a major culture shake up, move any players who are complacent and don't bring 100% effort. Maybe we go in a full rebuild not this "on the fly" strategy.
 
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will1066

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You're talking under the assumption McD will definitely get his extension. I don't think anyone in the current core group can be considered untouchable. They obviously did not work the offseason under a rebuild strategy. The glaring weakness was seen as the backline, so GMJG went and got the two who mostly everyone thought would shore it up. The forward group got balanced scoring and the hope was some of those forwards would take it a step further this year. Grabner is proving last year to be an anomaly. Who would've thunk it that the scoring would dry up like it has.
 

GregSirico

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Grabner is proving last year to be an anomaly. Who would've thunk it that the scoring would dry up like it has.

Most people knew Grab's #'s were an anomaly. I think the bigger frustration is the lack of chemistry on this team along with the forwards all being "decent" but the sum of the parts is nothing exciting. We have some nice pieces but nothing really to build upon. We need to face facts and really rebuild the right way.
 

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You're talking under the assumption McD will definitely get his extension. I don't think anyone in the current core group can be considered untouchable. They obviously did not work the offseason under a rebuild strategy. The glaring weakness was seen as the backline, so GMJG went and got the two who mostly everyone thought would shore it up. The forward group got balanced scoring and the hope was some of those forwards would take it a step further this year. Grabner is proving last year to be an anomaly. Who would've thunk it that the scoring would dry up like it has.

If they aren’t going to sign McDonagh they need to trade him by this deadline. They time to love him was last summer with the prices for dmen thru the roof. But again that commits them to a rebuild, and they can’t really rebuild with the money committed to Smith and Shattenkirk.
 

GregSirico

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Is there any chance we get Hank to waive his NTC and move him? I believe that would be the major cog to move this organization into a full rebuild and look at this thing from a philosophical perspective of how to be competitive in this tough division (PIT, CBJ, WAS, NJ better, NYI aren't bad) in a year or so.
 

will1066

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Most people knew Grab's #'s were an anomaly. I think the bigger frustration is the lack of chemistry on this team along with the forwards all being "decent" but the sum of the parts is nothing exciting. We have some nice pieces but nothing really to build upon. We need to face facts and really rebuild the right way.

It's difficult to accept it as lack of chemistry when most of the top 9 played with each other interchangeably last year. I think we are seeing them hit their ceilings as far as being Rangers. I don't know if it's all due to coaching but I believe in you are the product of your environment. The way it's looking, we will be sellers at the deadline.
 

GregSirico

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It's difficult to accept it as lack of chemistry when most of the top 9 played with each other interchangeably last year. I think we are seeing them hit their ceilings as far as being Rangers. I don't know if it's all due to coaching but I believe in you are the product of your environment. The way it's looking, we will be sellers at the deadline.

This is the exact reason a coach like Sutter is exactly what this team needs. He gets the most out of his players. Finds a way to use their talents (whatever they may be) to the best of their ability.
 

will1066

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If they aren’t going to sign McDonagh they need to trade him by this deadline. They time to love him was last summer with the prices for dmen thru the roof. But again that commits them to a rebuild, and they can’t really rebuild with the money committed to Smith and Shattenkirk.

Nash departing is going to free up a whole lot of cap space. Next buyout exercise could be Staal. But that money should be spent wisely, i.e., not Duchene.
 

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Nash departing is going to free up a whole lot of cap space. Next buyout exercise could be Staal. But that money should be spent wisely, i.e., not Duchene.

They need the Nash money to resign their RFAs. Duchene is actually the best way they could spend money considering how the current team is constructed
 

will1066

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This is the exact reason a coach like Sutter is exactly what this team needs. He gets the most out of his players. Finds a way to use their talents (whatever they may be) to the best of their ability.

I don't know about Sutter, but I agree a change is needed.
 

Bruner4329

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You can change the coach but until this franchise gets serious about bringing a legitimate center in this team will never get better. No Stepan wasn't the answer but thinking you can get buy with Hayes as a second line center is a joke. MZ should not be a 1st line center either. He is a 2. That is one of the big reasons we are struggling to score. No Play makers and no one to set up the others. Center has been a need for years. You score 1 or 2 goals a game you aint winning in this league.
 
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GoAwayPanarin

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You can change the coach but until this franchise gets serious about bringing a legitimate center in this team will never get better. No Stepan wasn't the answer but thinking you can get buy with Hayes as a second line center is a joke. MZ should not be a 1st line center either. He is a 2. That is one of the big reasons we are struggling to score. No Play makers and no one to set up the others. Center has been a need for years. You score 1 or 2 goals a game you aint winning in this league.


Chicago won the cup in 2013 with Toews giving them nothing for almost the entire tournament and Michal Handzus as their 2nd line center.

This myth that center depth is most important really needs to die.

Our overall forward depth sucks right now. That need to improve that across the board.
 

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Chicago won the cup in 2013 with Toews giving them nothing for almost the entire tournament and Michal Handzus as their 2nd line center.

This myth that center depth is most important really needs to die.

Our overall forward depth sucks right now. That need to improve that across the board.

Center depth is very important. Those
Chicago teams also had Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith dominating. The Rangers do not have a Hart caliber forward or a Norris caliber defenseman.

Kane is good enough on his own that he can mitigate not having a center. The Rangers don’t have anyone that can do that. What the Rangers has going for them was the goalie, but now that player is declining.
 
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GoAwayPanarin

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Center depth is very important. Those
Chicago teams also had Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith dominating. The Rangers do not have a Hart caliber forward or a Norris caliber defenseman.

Kane is good enough on his own that he can mitigate not having a center. The Rangers don’t have anyone that can do that. What the Rangers has going for them was the goalie, but now that player is declining.

Thats my point.

You need to have depth everywhere, not just strictly down the middle.

Chicago won with out very much depth down the middle (or at least productive depth) as recently as 4 years ago. Its not the be all end all that some like to think it is.

McDonagh has had some really good runs in the postseason, but I agree that they need to find guys who can actually get them through rather than just get them there (Nash, Zucc have been guys who fall into this bucket.)
 

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But my point is Chicago makes that work because they had more gamebreakers and playmakers. The Rangers don’t have that luxury.
 
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