The Future of Stephen Weiss

[detredWINgs]

I still think that if you want to get him going, you have to put him on the ice. Rig the paperwork a bit and try to send him to GR for a two week conditioning stint. He could go down, and get some games in where it doesn't hurt us. It would also be beneficial in clearing a roster spot for us for a bit when Datsyuk comes off IR.

I don't have any real faith in practice alone sharpening his game to where it needs to be, and the longer he goes without playing, the more I would worry about him tearing a groin or hamstring when he does get on the ice.

That's because it won't. At no point whatsoever does the pace of practice replicate what goes on in the game. The stresses simply aren't there. And just because Weiss is practicing at full speed doesn't mean everyone else at practice is going to play at full speed just so Weiss gets a more in-game feel. Its a bogus idea all around. If Weiss and Ericsson are doing a checking drill, just because Weiss is busting his ass trying to simulate what he would do in the game doesn't mean Ericsson is checking like he would in a game. Same goes for a scrimmage.

Weiss needs to play. But sadly, we already know how this will go: he'll be put on the bottom lines, play ~10 minutes a game with the likes of Miller, Nestrasil, Andy, or Cleary and then Babs will balk at the fact that Weiss didn't produce enough when we escape the game with a 2-1 SO victory where the likes of Zetterberg, Franzen, Sheahan, Kronwall, and Tatar lay eggs.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

It's pretty obvious that Helm is not full healthy and that's why his role is reduced. Healthy Helm would play more than Glendening in normal situation, always.

I don't buy that. I think Glendening's play has completely won over Babcock. I think he trusts him more than anyone not named Zetterberg or Datsyuk in defensive situations right now.

And I don't think that's necessarily a terrible thing if Glendening continues to play good hockey.

But I think that you have to find other ways to get Helm involved. Helm's too good of a player to be benched in favor of Miller, Andersson, and Abdelkader when the bench gets shortened. He can do everything that those guys can except at a higher level.

 

[Winger98]

Our "4th line" isn't really our 4th line. In realty we're looking at:

Franzen-Zetterberg-Abby/Nyquist
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Glendening-Andersson
Abby/Nyquist-Helm-Nestrasil

Glendening has overtaken Helm for Babcock.

And when the bench gets shortened, Jurco gets replaced by Nyquist or Abdelkader.

So if Abby joined Glendening it would really put him on the 3rd line.

It'll get interesting once Datsyuk gets back in regards to lines and how the ice time is spread out.

I think we need to get Helm more involved though. His speed and tenacity is too big of an asset to underuse. Whether that means playing him on the wing with one of the big dogs or having him join Glendening's wing, we need to get more out of him. When the bench gets shortened Helm shouldn't be stuck on the bench. Not if Glendening and Miller and Abdelkader are still playing.

You're right, the fourth line isn't the fourth line. The third line is a fourth line, too. Not disagreeing that it's not what's happening, but it's why we're having a hard time scoring more than two goals a game, despite largely driving possession and carrying the play.

Until Datsyuk gets back, the best thing that can happen for us is Weiss getting in, putting up a couple of points with some solid play, and getting on Babcock's good side.

That's because it won't. At no point whatsoever does the pace of practice replicate what goes on in the game. The stresses simply aren't there. And just because Weiss is practicing at full speed doesn't mean everyone else at practice is going to play at full speed just so Weiss gets a more in-game feel. Its a bogus idea all around. If Weiss and Ericsson are doing a checking drill, just because Weiss is busting his ass trying to simulate what he would do in the game doesn't mean Ericsson is checking like he would in a game. Same goes for a scrimmage.

Weiss needs to play. But sadly, we already know how this will go: he'll be put on the bottom lines, play ~10 minutes a game with the likes of Miller, Nestrasil, Andy, or Cleary and then Babs will balk at the fact that Weiss didn't produce enough when we escape the game with a 2-1 SO victory where the likes of Zetterberg, Franzen, Sheahan, Kronwall, and Tatar lay eggs.

I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic in how I said it, but yeah that's pretty much how I view the bit about practice, too. He's healthy, he has a history of being a productive player and a leader, we signed him to be a scoring line center, give him his chance and let him try to play into game shape.

He doesn't even need to get a lot of minutes to start, just some solid minutes with decent players. It's not like you can't tell a guy is playing well just because he's getting 10-12 minutes a night. Start low, and build it up.

 

[detredWINgs]

I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic in how I said it, but yeah that's pretty much how I view the bit about practice, too. He's healthy, he has a history of being a productive player and a leader, we signed him to be a scoring line center, give him his chance and let him try to play into game shape.

He doesn't even need to get a lot of minutes to start, just some solid minutes with decent players. It's not like you can't tell a guy is playing well just because he's getting 10-12 minutes a night. Start low, and build it up.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was debating anything you said; I was mostly just piggybacking off your comment.

 

[Octopus]

What to do with Weiss?

Now what? (4) games into the season and it seems Weiss has been forgotten. Wings can't trade him. Should they send him down to the farm. Seem obvious to me that he needs to play somewhere to get his timing back. His skating and speed seemed fine in the preseason but his hands clearly were not. Thoughts anyone.

 

[Vladdy84]

Now what? (4) games into the season and it seems Weiss has been forgotten. Wings can't trade him. Should they send him down to the farm. Seem obvious to me that he needs to play somewhere to get his timing back. His skating and speed seemed fine in the preseason but his hands clearly were not. Thoughts anyone.

Patience my child. Patience.

 

[Dotter]

He might play tomorrow if Franzen is out. Or maybe Daniel Cleary might get the nod... who knows.

 

[dtones520]

It's too bad, like everyone else is saying, he isn't going to improve anymore in practice, so either send him down to the minors or get him in the lineup. Nestrasil doesn't bring anything to the table that Weiss can't bring and if we can get Weiss going we have a lot more interesting options up front than we do now, in terms of match ups and, possibly, playing Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.

Unfortunately, Weiss hasn't won over Babcock, which makes me think there is a work ethic issue with him. But our current strategy with hi does no one any favors. And if we did waive hi and send him down there is a chance someone picks him up, which eliminates the problem altogether...unless he has an NMC, which I'm thinking he does.

 

[BinCookin]

"weiss waived " unless he has an NMC, which I'm thinking he does.

He does have a NMC, can't be waived.

 

[T Low]

If he hasn't played by game 8-10, then I'll start to care.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

It's too bad, like everyone else is saying, he isn't going to improve anymore in practice, so either send him down to the minors or get him in the lineup. Nestrasil doesn't bring anything to the table that Weiss can't bring and if we can get Weiss going we have a lot more interesting options up front than we do now, in terms of match ups and, possibly, playing Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.

Unfortunately, Weiss hasn't won over Babcock, which makes me think there is a work ethic issue with him. But our current strategy with hi does no one any favors. And if we did waive hi and send him down there is a chance someone picks him up, which eliminates the problem altogether...unless he has an NMC, which I'm thinking he does.

Nah, it's just Babs picks favorites all the time. Weiss wasn't going to be on the starting day roster well before preseason.

 

[Frk It]

Nah, it's just Babs picks favorites all the time. Weiss wasn't going to be on the starting day roster well before preseason.

If he came into preseason playing like a 2nd line center, I think he'd be our 2nd line center. Maybe I'm just naive though.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I think the thing that I find the most unfortunate about all of this is - we've had a very long transition from a puck possession, deliberate, and passing oriented style of play as our veteran leadership and skill has fallen out from our blue line with no real replacement.

We've found a lot of success in the last 12 months pushing the pace of play and utilizing our young players and speed in transition to generate opportunities (Tatar, Jurco and Goose in particular). Weiss's style was...is?...tailored made for a north south game. He had tremendous acceleration and speed through the neutral zone and adept at distribution to equally paced wingers, which we finally have.

I adore Sheahan and love the chemistry, puck control, and physicality he brings to the kid line but he is not a burner by any stretch of the imagination. The idea of uncorking the acceleration and speed of a Jurco, Weiss, Nyquist/Tatar line just adds a unique combination that we don't have right now and could be a way to push the tempo of the game to another level. In a given night, an opponent could see a Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen line using their superb puck control and precise passing and then change entirely to a north south style with a Tatar, Weiss, and Jurco line.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

If he came into preseason playing like a 2nd line center, I think he'd be our 2nd line center. Maybe I'm just naive though.

Babs talked about putting Helm at Pavs wing. Clearly Pavs-Z-Sheahan-Glendening were his 4 planned centers. Weiss was never given a fair lick, whereas Cleary was given many opportunities to make the team, but just reinforced what we all knew about him.

 

[Crymson]

He has been thoroughly irrelevant so far tonight.

 

[Winger98]

He has been thoroughly irrelevant so far tonight.

physically, I thought he looked alright. He seemed to get around the ice pretty well. What I didn't like is that there were moments where he looked completely lost. I don't understand how someone who is practicing with the team every day can look so out of step with what everyone else is doing. I'm not talking about looking rusty or anything, I mean it looks like he's playing a different system out there.

 

[Claypool]

He played about 8 minutes total and had one :30 second shift in the third. He's back in the fridge.

 

[qingsatan]

was irrelevant but self-esteem is low at the moment. will take time and opportunity to get going (and should be given as such with datysuk/franzen out). makes way too much money to sit.

 

[Frk It]

physically, I thought he looked alright. He seemed to get around the ice pretty well. What I didn't like is that there were moments where he looked completely lost. I don't understand how someone who is practicing with the team every day can look so out of step with what everyone else is doing. I'm not talking about looking rusty or anything, I mean it looks like he's playing a different system out there.

I think there's the answer as to why he hasn't been playing.

 

[Frk It]

was irrelevant but self-esteem is low at the moment. will take time and opportunity to get going (and should be given as such with datysuk/franzen out). makes way too much money to sit.

How much money he makes is irrelevant. Play the best players.

 

[theYman]

physically, I thought he looked alright. He seemed to get around the ice pretty well. What I didn't like is that there were moments where he looked completely lost. I don't understand how someone who is practicing with the team every day can look so out of step with what everyone else is doing. I'm not talking about looking rusty or anything, I mean it looks like he's playing a different system out there.

Chemistry is the only thing holding this guy back. He needs to get his head out of his ass.

 

[KJoe88]

Babs was happy with Weiss and said he likes his attitude and his progression on FSD post game.

Weiss will get better.

 

[Winger98]

I think there's the answer as to why he hasn't been playing.

Don't disagree at all. I'm more baffled how it can happen at this point. He does actually get on the ice during practices, doesn't he? It wasn't a great sample size tonight, it was his first game, etc., so maybe I'm being too harsh. I thought he looked straight up bad at ES, though.

 

[qingsatan]

How much money he makes is irrelevant. Play the best players.

he should be given a fair window for assessment. at least 5 games with offensive linemates. second line hasn't done much scoring. try him with tatar and jurco (sheahan has not been as good).

 

[Flowah]

he should be given a fair window for assessment. at least 5 games with offensive linemates. second line hasn't done much scoring. try him with tatar and jurco (sheahan has not been as good).

wat

Sheahan has been dynamite.