The Future of Stephen Weiss

[Run the Jewels]

What games are you watching? DeKeyser was fantastic on the PP last game. Kept the puck in multiple times, kept the play alive under pressure, distributing the puck... what specifically is he failing at, in your eyes?

I mentioned he had a couple nice shifts last night but he's very far away from being an effective point. A few things are abundantly clear:

1. He's just not comfortable walking the blueline and being the last line of defense. This could improve over time but he looks very uncomfortable.
2. He seems to think too much, where a natural point would be able to react much quicker. This isn't a surprise since offense has never been his calling card.
3. Along the lines of the second point, it's tough to see him being an effective distributor as far as getting set plays started or finding the open man. The forwards seem to have to come up higher towards the blue line to give him an easy outlet.
4. He doesn't seem to have a sense of when he should move up towards the circles for a quality scoring chance. He does have a decent shot and there's a chance this part of his game could develop.

I have no problem being brutally critical of certain players but that's certainly not where I'm coming from with DeKeyser. I haven't given up on him as a contributor on the power play. I still have some patience, with that being said I don't see anything yet that makes me believe he is going to be a long term answer on the power play.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Possession time, maybe. But it is Tatar creating virtually all the scoring chances.

I haven't checked, but my gut tells me Tatar has been better in possession time too.

Sheahan hasn't been bad, but, offensively, he hasn't been dynamite or great or a stud either. He hasn't created as many scoring chances as a 2nd-line center should, and he has 4 shots (fewest on the team aside from Weiss), 0 goals, and 1 assist in 5 games. While getting 3:37 of PP time per game.

He needs to be better.

I think he's been very good. Tatar and Sheahan compliment one another very well.

 

[Flowah]

Interesting tidbit picked up from an interview mentioned by Malik

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/red-wings-maple-leafs-round-2-wrap-up

Weiss started on the third line with Darren Helm and Andrej Nestrasil.

"He got an opportunity to play, not a ton," Babcock said. "But at least he got into the game. With Weiss, it's not going to happen overnight. You miss as much hockey as he has, it's going to take some time. But we are happy with that. We think he's going in the right direction."

and

“He got an opportunity to play in a game,” coach Mike Babcock said. “He didn’t get a ton of opportunity but at least he got in the game and got some action going. When you’ve missed as much hockey as him it’s going to take you some time. But we’re happy with him. We think he’s going in the right direction. We think his attitude is great and we think he’s working hard.”

It almost sounds like they just don't think his conditioning or game readiness is there. But if they think he's going "in the right direction" then I'm not that worried. I would like them to try to get him into more games and get him up to speed if that's really the only problem though. If he has the ability to be a legitimate 2C that is a huge huge win for this team.

 

[jaster]

I think he's been very good. Tatar and Sheahan compliment one another very well.

Easy to agree to disagree here, since the season is so young, and once we're about a quarter of the way through, I think there will be more consensus on Sheahan (as well as all players).

But I certainly agree on Sheahan and Tatar. Of the three guys on the line, those are the two with the strongest chemistry.

 

[jaster]

I mentioned he had a couple nice shifts last night but he's very far away from being an effective point. A few things are abundantly clear:

1. He's just not comfortable walking the blueline and being the last line of defense. This could improve over time but he looks very uncomfortable.
2. He seems to think too much, where a natural point would be able to react much quicker. This isn't a surprise since offense has never been his calling card.
3. Along the lines of the second point, it's tough to see him being an effective distributor as far as getting set plays started or finding the open man. The forwards seem to have to come up higher towards the blue line to give him an easy outlet.
4. He doesn't seem to have a sense of when he should move up towards the circles for a quality scoring chance. He does have a decent shot and there's a chance this part of his game could develop.

I have no problem being brutally critical of certain players but that's certainly not where I'm coming from with DeKeyser. I haven't given up on him as a contributor on the power play. I still have some patience, with that being said I don't see anything yet that makes me believe he is going to be a long term answer on the power play.

In the scheme the Wings are running, one of the wingers should always be coming up high to assist, unless the PK is playing a very tight box, which most teams do not. Otherwise, the point man is hung out to dry. The Wings PP starts by trying to suck a PK forward closer to the middle, where the point man sets up. The PP winger on the side that the PKer came from then comes up to take a pass and start a play. Depending on how the PKers react to that, there are various passing and shooting opportunities.

On the same token, DeKeyser should not be pinching toward the circles, that's not his job, unless there is a 3-man rotation occurring, which is a set play. And if it's a set play, DeKeyser is surely executing it. The system we are running is not one where the point man should be sneaking down to a circle on his own.

 

[SoupGuru]

I mentioned he had a couple nice shifts last night but he's very far away from being an effective point. A few things are abundantly clear:

1. He's just not comfortable walking the blueline and being the last line of defense. This could improve over time but he looks very uncomfortable.
2. He seems to think too much, where a natural point would be able to react much quicker. This isn't a surprise since offense has never been his calling card.
3. Along the lines of the second point, it's tough to see him being an effective distributor as far as getting set plays started or finding the open man. The forwards seem to have to come up higher towards the blue line to give him an easy outlet.
4. He doesn't seem to have a sense of when he should move up towards the circles for a quality scoring chance. He does have a decent shot and there's a chance this part of his game could develop.

I have no problem being brutally critical of certain players but that's certainly not where I'm coming from with DeKeyser. I haven't given up on him as a contributor on the power play. I still have some patience, with that being said I don't see anything yet that makes me believe he is going to be a long term answer on the power play.

You watched a different game than I did. DeKeyser held the puck in the zone multiple times last night, even while under pressure. I'm going to say it was Lidstrom-esque... he was swatting clearing attempts out of the air and getting the play going again. I saw no problems with his distribution of the puck either.

It's valid to criticize his lack of shots and moving to the net when he can... but he's going to bear that criticism along with 9 other guys.

 

[jkutswings]

Remind me why I should trust this GM in free agency any longer?

Again, still a good scouting staff, but the record in trades and UFAs/RFAs isn't getting any rosier...

 

[ricky0034]

Remind me why I should trust this GM in free agency any longer?

Again, still a good scouting staff, but the record in trades and UFAs/RFAs isn't getting any rosier...

what's to complain about with RFAs?

I mean the Kindl deal was a mistake I guess but that's barely even a rfa thing at all(he was 26 so all but 1 year of his deal was UFA years anyways) and signing Lashoff to a deal that long was kinda bleh(but the cap hit is low enough that he could be easily waived and pretty much wipe the whole thing although being willing to do it is another story obviously)

other than that I can't really think of anything am I missing something here? the Wings have had quite a few RFAs the past couple years(Smith,Nyquist,Tatar,Sheahan,DeKeyser) and there hasn't been any drama or anything like that around their contracts and the prices have been reasonable,I certainly don't really see anything to complain about on that end

 

[Claypool]

Remind me why I should trust this GM in free agency any longer?

He signed Weiss expecting him to be healthy. He's Uwe Krupp 2.0 at this point. That's the risk you take signing free agents, though, and why I always prefer to the Red Wing build from within.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

He signed Weiss expecting him to be healthy. He's Uwe Krupp 2.0 at this point. That's the risk you take signing free agents, though, and why I always prefer to the Red Wing build from within.

And can't it be argued that no team builds from within better than Detroit?

 

[JPE123]

And can't it be argued that no team builds from within better than Detroit?

At this point I don't want any trades or free agent signings. Been a while since one really worked out

 

[SirloinUB]

Interesting tidbit picked up from an interview mentioned by Malik

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/red-wings-maple-leafs-round-2-wrap-up

and

It almost sounds like they just don't think his conditioning or game readiness is there. But if they think he's going "in the right direction" then I'm not that worried. I would like them to try to get him into more games and get him up to speed if that's really the only problem though. If he has the ability to be a legitimate 2C that is a huge huge win for this team.

While I don't disagree with you, I think the only way he can get "closer" to game ready at this point is by actually playing games. Its not like he looked bad in preaseason or against the leafs. And that's not even really factoring for the reality that he is only played with bottom 6 players, either.

 

[Eye of Ra]

if he started to hit and play angry maybe he could be a decent 4th liner.

i dont understand why not more hockeyplayers think like that....if the dont play good or not enough skill...then work like a mad men on ice and hit like you are possessed by a demon. then you will give something to the team.

if I somehow could get in weiss body and mind....

 

[T Low]

While I don't disagree with you, I think the only way he can get "closer" to game ready at this point is by actually playing games. Its not like he looked bad in preaseason or against the leafs. And that's not even really factoring for the reality that he is only played with bottom 6 players, either.

Consider this:

I saw an interview with Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers. When asked about sitting on the bench while Farve played his last few years, he said it was good because not only did he get to study the system, but it let his body heal from college injuries.

Weiss is signed for 4 more years. I have no problem taking time to let him heal, let him study, let him be ready when called upon. 82 games plus playoffs is a long, hard, grind.

 

[jaster]

Hockey is far different than football though, especially the QB position. Too close to apples and oranges, imo.

 

[jkutswings]

what's to complain about with RFAs?

Technically, everything you said was true, but I don't really consider re-signing our own guys "going after RFAs". My point was that the avenue of signing somebody else's RFA to an offer sheet, while not a common one for most teams, has been completely abandoned as a possibility for improving this one.

I don't care how much people love all our prospect forwards; giving up a boatload of draft picks and outdoing what Philly attempted to do with Shea Weber would've made this a better overall team, with better odds of making a legit playoff run.

It just seems like Holland wants to build 99% from within...while continuing to wait forever and a day before actually playing most of the kids.

 

[Frk It]

Hockey is far different than football though, especially the QB position. Too close to apples and oranges, imo.

Agreed. Plus Rodgers was a rookie, and Weiss is a 30 year old veteran. He basically sat out all of last year. He shouldn't need more time to learn the system.

 

[Bench]

Agreed. Plus Rodgers was a rookie, and Weiss is a 30 year old veteran. He basically sat out all of last year. He shouldn't need more time to learn the system.

And Rodgers is one of the most gifted quarterbacks to ever touch a football and Weiss is more comparable to a journeyman level quarterback like Carson Palmer.

How are all you Canadians keeping up with these football analogies?

 

[The Red Line]

Technically, everything you said was true, but I don't really consider re-signing our own guys "going after RFAs". My point was that the avenue of signing somebody else's RFA to an offer sheet, while not a common one for most teams, has been completely abandoned as a possibility for improving this one.

I don't care how much people love all our prospect forwards; giving up a boatload of draft picks and outdoing what Philly attempted to do with Shea Weber would've made this a better overall team, with better odds of making a legit playoff run.

It just seems like Holland wants to build 99% from within...while continuing to wait forever and a day before actually playing most of the kids.

If we were to beat Phillys offer on weber AND make it high enough where Nashville wouldn't match, we'd end up paying him around 12 mil per season, he is a great player but having that much locked up in one guy does NOT make this team better, it would completely demolish our depth.

If we had done that you can be sure that nyquist and Tatar and smith and dekeyser would be unaffordable.

 

[SirloinUB]

And Rodgers is one of the most gifted quarterbacks to ever touch a football and Weiss is more comparable to a journeyman level quarterback like Carson Palmer.

How are all you Canadians keeping up with these football analogies?

Off topic, but we love football in the Great White North, though as a whole we prefer the CFL.

CFL, NFL, NCAA, CIS all get solid coverage in Canada. The order I listed the respective league, represents national viewership. CIS is quite a ways behind the others though.

Again off topic, and I imagine few care, but I wish our media would spend more time covering CIS, especially hockey. Its quality puck.

 

[Frk It]

Off topic, but we love football in the great white north, though as a whole we prefer the CFL.

CFL, NFL, NCAA, CIS all get solid coverage in Canada. The order I listed the respective league, represents national viewership. CIS is quite a ways behind the others though.

Again off topic, and I imagine few care, but I wish our media would spend more time covering CIS, especially hockey. Its quality puck.

Also on the off-topic train.. Does UB stand for University at Buffalo? Or no? Always wondered.

 

[SirloinUB]

Also on the off-topic train.. Does UB stand for University at Buffalo? Or no? Always wondered.

I migrated the username from another website I was a member of in my teens. Picked it probably a decade ago first, and then chose to use it on this site as well as I liked the "ring" of it. At this point I can't tell you the origins of any part of my user name.

 

[T Low]

Heal HEAL, to let him HEAL!

I now realize I should not have distracted you all with the study statement as much, but yes, hockey is a brutal game, and if he sits the first 10-15 games this year, then he'll be that much more healed, that much less he'll have to endure this first year back .

 

[tfong]

Personally aside from Huselius, I think all the pre-Tallon era Panther stars were players that just didn't know how to win.

Jaybo, Joker predominantly as both came to the Flames. I wanted Weiss too but its like when he left the Panthers he just didn't know how to play hockey. Something about how that organization used to develop their players or the system they ran just did a number on their players minds to think it was ok to lose or something, not sure.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Personally aside from Huselius, I think all the pre-Tallon era Panther stars were players that just didn't know how to win.

Jaybo, Joker predominantly as both came to the Flames. I wanted Weiss too but its like when he left the Panthers he just didn't know how to play hockey. Something about how that organization used to develop their players or the system they ran just did a number on their players minds to think it was ok to lose or something, not sure.

Jaybo has been very, very good in St. Louis. Not knowing how to win is an overblown concept that is not really quantifiable at all. Yzerman didn't win anything for 13 years and then he did.