The Future of Stephen Weiss

[KJoe88]

Please put Weiss in the lineup, management.

The only way to see if we can get the old Weiss back is to give him this opportunity to play this season.

 

[Winger98]

New Mlive article regarding Weiss:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/red_wings_stephen_weiss_hungry.html#incart_river

"I knew with the way things went last year and the end of the year meetings I had with Mike (coach Babcock) and Kenny (general manager Holland) that I was going to have to be real special in the preseason to get a chance early in the season, especially with the way our young kids played last year,"

"The lines were kind of set. It was going to be tough to get in the lineup. I did my best throughout the preseason to do what I could to get in the lineup and it wasn't good enough."

Weiss said he is completely healthy now.

"I've had no issues at all. I feel as good as I have in a couple years," Weiss said. "It's a lot of work every day to make sure everything is fine and the way you want it to but I got no issues health-wise."

Practice is only going to get him so far, too. at some point, you just have to get in and play to really get your legs and timing back. This screams Babcock being too hung up on players/lines performing specific functions and only those functions.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Practice is only going to get him so far, too. at some point, you just have to get in and play to really get your legs and timing back. This screams Babcock being too hung up on players/lines performing specific functions and only those functions.

That doesn't sound like Mike Babcock at all. Babcock stubborn? No.

 

[Frk It]

Assuming Weiss can get back into the lineup...

I personally would like to see Sheahan as a winger in the top 6, and Z-Pav-Weiss down the middle.

Sheahan-Z-Nyquist
Franzen-Datsyuk-Helm
Tatar-Weiss-Jurco/Abby
Miller-Glenny-Abby/Joker

Or swap Sheahan and Mule.

 

[Heaton]

Assuming Weiss can get back into the lineup...

I personally would like to see Sheahan as a winger in the top 6, and Z-Pav-Weiss down the middle.

Sheahan-Z-Nyquist
Franzen-Datsyuk-Helm
Tatar-Weiss-Jurco/Abby
Miller-Glenny-Abby/Joker

Or swap Sheahan and Mule.

I don't think that will happen. Babcock likes to have a big centerman somewhere int he lineup, taking Sheahan out of his spot makes us really small there.

 

[Henkka]

Datsyuk in --> Jurco down at Griffins.
Weiss in --> Nestrasil on the pressbox.

That's what I want to see.

Weiss was LW at Florida some years ago. Put him wit helm to balance some speed or something...

 

[Frk It]

I don't think that will happen. Babcock likes to have a big centerman somewhere int he lineup, taking Sheahan out of his spot makes us really small there.

Gives us 1 less big center, but gives us 1 more big top 6 winger that can finish.

That's a trade-off I think Babs could live with. Just maybe.

 

[T Low]

Weiss won't get in until Datsyuk returns :

Zetterberg Datsyuk Helm

Mule Weiss Nyquist

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glendenning Abby

 

[Frk It]

Khan thinks Weiss will play this weekend. (Per his response to someone on Twitter)

 

[Mister Ed]

Khan thinks Weiss will play this weekend. (Per his response to someone on Twitter)

Chuck Pleiness ‏@wingsfrontman
Stephen Weiss is out Gray today. He's wearing White. He could be in Friday at Toronto. Cleary in Gray along with Datsyuk. Nestrasil in White

It could mean something like it could mean nothing, but Pleiness is saying the same thing. Could mean someone is injured, since no other scratches?

EDIT : Abdelkader has maintenance day, thus the reason why Weiss is in a white jersey, per Pleiness.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Practice is only going to get him so far, too. at some point, you just have to get in and play to really get your legs and timing back. This screams Babcock being too hung up on players/lines performing specific functions and only those functions.

While this is true you still have to practice well to get into the line up. I thought Weiss' comments yesterday were telling. He said his timing was "getting there". That implies to me that he is very rusty and needs to sharpen up. He won't gain anything but broken confidence by playing in games if he isn't capable. I am sure his confidence isn't at an all time high after 2 years off as it is.

 

[Winger98]

While this is true you still have to practice well to get into the line up. I thought Weiss' comments yesterday were telling. He said his timing was "getting there". That implies to me that he is very rusty and needs to sharpen up. He won't gain anything but broken confidence by playing in games if he isn't capable. I am sure his confidence isn't at an all time high after 2 years off as it is.

I still think that if you want to get him going, you have to put him on the ice. Rig the paperwork a bit and try to send him to GR for a two week conditioning stint. He could go down, and get some games in where it doesn't hurt us. It would also be beneficial in clearing a roster spot for us for a bit when Datsyuk comes off IR.

I don't have any real faith in practice alone sharpening his game to where it needs to be, and the longer he goes without playing, the more I would worry about him tearing a groin or hamstring when he does get on the ice.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

To me it seemed like Babcock had no intention of using Weiss on his opening day roster. We heard him talking about using Helm at wing and splitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Weiss was given mediocre line mates during pre-season, and I don't think he was ever given a fair shake coming into this season. Yet Abdelkader, remarkably, keeps seeing top line time.

 

[Fugu]

While this is true you still have to practice well to get into the line up. I thought Weiss' comments yesterday were telling. He said his timing was "getting there". That implies to me that he is very rusty and needs to sharpen up. He won't gain anything but broken confidence by playing in games if he isn't capable. I am sure his confidence isn't at an all time high after 2 years off as it is.

Can you link the story that quoted Weiss?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

while i agree that andersson on the fourth line is playing well, weiss is a better offensive player and at the moment we need some offence no matter how little it may be

out with andersson in with weiss
out with nesty and in with datsyuk

zetts-dats-abby
nyquist-weiss-franzen
tatar-sheahan-jurco
miller-helm-glendening

it gives you 7 potential centres in the lineup for faceoffs etc

it gives you three scoring lines

i dont like seeing abby on that top line but if he will skate and do the dirty work for the two stars than its a role that needs to be filled

give weiss some actual nhl talent and not just for one period of one game but for half a dozen games without change

that fourth line would be dangerous and fast and yet give up nothing to hurt you

do not send jurco down unless its to bring up a skilled forward to score(pulkinnen, nosek, frk or mantha**)

 

[BinCookin]

To me it seemed like Babcock had no intention of using Weiss on his opening day roster. We heard him talking about using Helm at wing and splitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Weiss was given mediocre line mates during pre-season, and I don't think he was ever given a fair shake coming into this season. Yet Abdelkader, remarkably, keeps seeing top line time.

Its almost like Legwand and Weiss are the same guy?

 

[BinCookin]

Can you link the story that quoted Weiss?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/red_wings_stephen_weiss_hungry.html#incart_river

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Can you link the story that quoted Weiss?

It's in the same article that I linked, where Weiss basically said that he knew he wasn't in the opening day lineup plans since the end of last season. Which to me was very telling. He said he knew he'd have to basically be amazing during the preseason yet the best player he played with was Abdelkader.

He wasn't in their plans and that's showed all along.

Weiss stated he's healthy. Pointing to him talking about his timing is silly. Which player has his timing back at the start of preseason and the season? Every single player is getting their timing back. That's why they play.

Weiss wasn't in their plans, it's pretty simple.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

It's in the same article that I linked, where Weiss basically said that he knew he wasn't in the opening day lineup plans since the end of last season. Which to me was very telling. He said he knew he'd have to basically be amazing during the preseason yet the best player he played with was Abdelkader.

He wasn't in their plans and that's showed all along.

Weiss stated he's healthy. Pointing to him talking about his timing is silly. Which player has his timing back at the start of preseason and the season? Every single player is getting their timing back. That's why they play.

Weiss wasn't in their plans, it's pretty simple.

Which is messed up.

 

[vicehf]

How about trying something different and putting Helm, Weiss and Datsyuk all on the same line? Plenty of skill, speed and intelligence on that line.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Helm - Weiss - Datsyuk
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader

Put Cleary out of his misery and waive him. Keep Nestrasil and Andersson as the extra forwards and slide them into the lineup whenever Babcock believes the team needs size.

 

[Vladdy84]

How about trying something different and putting Helm, Weiss and Datsyuk all on the same line? Plenty of skill, speed and intelligence on that line.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Helm - Weiss - Datsyuk
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader

Put Cleary out of his misery and waive him. Keep Nestrasil and Andersson as the extra forwards and slide them into the lineup whenever Babcock believes the team needs size.

Well put. A couple tweaks here and there. No way Babs puts Gator on the 4th line though.

Just for right now until Dats comes back. Roll
Gator-Weiss-Helm.
This isn't rocket science..

 

[silkyjohnson50]

No way Babs puts Gator on the 4th line though.

Our "4th line" isn't really our 4th line. In realty we're looking at:

Franzen-Zetterberg-Abby/Nyquist
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Glendening-Andersson
Abby/Nyquist-Helm-Nestrasil

Glendening has overtaken Helm for Babcock.

And when the bench gets shortened, Jurco gets replaced by Nyquist or Abdelkader.

So if Abby joined Glendening it would really put him on the 3rd line.

It'll get interesting once Datsyuk gets back in regards to lines and how the ice time is spread out.

I think we need to get Helm more involved though. His speed and tenacity is too big of an asset to underuse. Whether that means playing him on the wing with one of the big dogs or having him join Glendening's wing, we need to get more out of him. When the bench gets shortened Helm shouldn't be stuck on the bench. Not if Glendening and Miller and Abdelkader are still playing.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Glendening has overtaken Helm for Babcock.

I don't know if that is true, though he certainly is one of Babcock's favorites along with Abdelkader and formerly Cleary.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I don't know if that is true, though he certainly is one of Babcock's favorites along with Abdelkader and formerly Cleary.

Up until this point it is true. Obviously it's only been 3 games and things could quickly change, but right now Glendening has taken over Helm's role:

Helm right now has the 2nd least amount of ice time among forwards. Only Nestrasil has less.

Glendening is getting nearly 3 minutes more per game at even strength.

Additionally, Helm is no longer playing a huge role on the PK so far. Glendening is our leading PKer.

Glendening is playing good hockey and probably has better defensive instincts than Helm. But I don't like the idea of players like Miller, Andersson, and even Abdelkader playing a bigger role than Helm in the long run. Helm's a better player than those guys and has better assets that can improve a line. So when the bench gets shortened, I don't think those guys should be playing while Helm's sitting.

 

[Henkka]

It's pretty obvious that Helm is not full healthy and that's why his role is reduced. Healthy Helm would play more than Glendening in normal situation, always.