The Advanced Stats Thread Episode VI: RIP To Our Databases

[silverfish]

All this being said though, Hank does share some of the onus. It's not likely every goal against is because of the team in front of him. Let's not pretend that Hank can't be better.

He can definitely be better, but if my 35 year-old goalie is still playing above expectation with the workload he's been given by this system, I'm going to point the finger elsewhere, first. The ship is sinking, and talking about Hank is like plugging the smallest hole on the ship. It should be plugged, but it's not the problem.

Bashing Hank is the (office buzzword incoming) low-hanging fruit of Ranger fandom.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

He can definitely be better, but if my 35 year-old goalie is still playing above expectation with the workload he's been given by this system, I'm going to point the finger elsewhere, first. The ship is sinking, and talking about Hank is like plugging the smallest hole on the ship. It should be plugged, but it's not the problem.

Bashing Hank is the (office buzzword incoming) low-hanging fruit of Ranger fandom.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

When you consider he costs 8.5 million dollars for the next 4 years with a full NMC, it's a lot more than just the 'smallest hole', IMO. How is he playing 'above expectation'? Is he even an 'average' #1 goalie at the moment?

Saying 'Henrik can be better' is a little ridiculous.

 

[Ail]

It's a constant here that people keep bringing up money when criticizing Hank and Nash and I can't figure out why seeing as this team is not in cap hell nor will it be anytime before one, if not both contracts expire. They are getting 'x' million, so what? Hank especially earned that money carrying this shithole franchise for a decade and Nash had a good run here as well despite a few creaky boards here constantly harping on what he didn't do.

 

[silverfish]

When you consider he costs 8.5 million dollars for the next 4 years with a full NMC, it's a lot more than just the 'smallest hole', IMO. How is he playing 'above expectation'? Is he even an 'average' #1 goalie at the moment?

Saying 'Henrik can be better' is a little ridiculous.

Above expectation meaning in terms of the xGA and xSv% he has. He is playing "above expected". Is that good enough for $8.5 AAV? No. Is it good enough for Hank to be "just" above expectation? No.

Is Hank the biggest issue facing this team right now? Absolutely not. Does that mean he is not an issue? No.

I'm gonna balk at getting into a conversation about his contract. Not really how I want to spend my time today

 

[silverfish]

I ****ing knew it

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

way to jinx it eyyjay (I forgot how you spelt it)

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I ****ing knew it

This team is truly unbelievable.

 

[silverfish]

way to jinx it eyyjay (I forgot how you spelt it)

I wish I could dig up my posts calling exactly this, but then everyone will accuse me of wanting to be right more than I want the Rangers to succeed. Which is laughable. I want to be right AND have the Rangers succeed

Are we ready to have the conversation surrounding Jeff Gorton, and how maybe this dude isn't hockey's gift from the Gods?

So far, all I see is a below-average GM.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Once again, everyone in the Rangers sphere seems to be missing the forest for the trees. The. System. Is. Broken.

What, you mean leaving the slot open for business with the hopes that your goalie will incessantly bail you out isn't a good idea?

Also, can Mickey Callaway coach the Rangers?
Calloway on blending analytics and traditional managing:
"You have to be a data-driven manager that uses every one of his players strengths to the max while always realizing they are human beings""

 

[silverfish]

GMs and coaches have no ****ing idea what they're doing, and the appeal to authority that exists among HF and hockey fans everywhere is laughably terrible.

What especially grinds my gears is when the appeal to authority is used, and the person using it doesn't realize their hypocrisy when they disagree with the coach/GM.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm with you Silver on Gorton. He has alot to prove still in my eyes to show he's more than a below-average GM

 

[silverfish]

I'm with you Silver on Gorton. He has alot to prove still in my eyes to show he's more than a below-average GM

He's shown me nothing. Nothing. And the praise he gets here for simply not being Sather, is atrocious. Chayka destroyed him in a trade, and HF spent the summer going to extraordinary lengths to justify the Rangers winning that trade. Nausea inducing.

Tonight could be a classic trap game. Really the only reason Arizona doesn't have a win is because Domingue is probably the worst goalie in the league. An all situations GSAA of -10 (Corsica.Hockey) in 6 games? That's so awful, I can't even comprehend it. As a team, they aren't great. 27th in 5v5 xGF%, but 17th in 5v5 xFSv%. This could be a "quantity vs quality" argument.

I mean, the Rangers need to win this game, especially if Domingue starts, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lose.

 

[silverfish]

A game to build on, if nothing else.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don’t think I’ve seen Kreider have consecutive games with -CF%rel in a while. Doesn’t matter I guess for last night since he got the game started with a great play in the neutral and offensive zone with Zucc to pot the first goal

 

[haveandare]

He's shown me nothing. Nothing. And the praise he gets here for simply not being Sather, is atrocious. Chayka destroyed him in a trade, and HF spent the summer going to extraordinary lengths to justify the Rangers winning that trade. Nausea inducing.

Tonight could be a classic trap game. Really the only reason Arizona doesn't have a win is because Domingue is probably the worst goalie in the league. An all situations GSAA of -10 (Corsica.Hockey) in 6 games? That's so awful, I can't even comprehend it. As a team, they aren't great. 27th in 5v5 xGF%, but 17th in 5v5 xFSv%. This could be a "quantity vs quality" argument.

I mean, the Rangers need to win this game, especially if Domingue starts, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lose.

How do you figure Chayka "destroyed him" exactly? What "extraordinary lengths?" Some people just disagree with you on that, it doesn't mean they're desperately trying to bend reality, it's a matter of opinion and they have a different opinion than you.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The trade is awful for the immediate return and how it left a gaping hole at C that was never filled. It’s merit is hinging on how two prospects develop, which is always something to leery about.

 

[silverfish]

How do you figure Chayka "destroyed him" exactly? What "extraordinary lengths?" Some people just disagree with you on that, it doesn't mean they're desperately trying to bend reality, it's a matter of opinion and they have a different opinion than you.

In the trade, one team got a 1C, and a 1B goalie. The other team got a young d-man who can't stick in the NHL, regardless of whether or not that's his fault, and then made a bad pick with the 7OA pick.

Do you actually think the Rangers won that trade? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.

People are totally entitled to their opinions, as am I, no?

The 'extraordinary lengths' were people doing everything they could to justify that LA wasn't a reach at 7 (he was). To justify that ADA would be an NHL player in this organization and with this coach (he isn't, right now).

It was a bad trade... in my opinion.

 

[haveandare]

In the trade, one team got a 1C, and a 1B goalie. The other team got a young d-man who can't stick in the NHL, regardless of whether or not that's his fault, and then made a bad pick with the 7OA pick.

Do you actually think the Rangers won that trade? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.

People are totally entitled to their opinions, as am I, no?

The 'extraordinary lengths' were people doing everything they could to justify that LA wasn't a reach at 7 (he was). To justify that ADA would be an NHL player in this organization and with this coach (he isn't, right now).

It was a bad trade... in my opinion.

Well "regardless of whether or not it's his fault" is pretty important to the label of being a guy who can't stick in the NHL. For example, Buch is technically a fourth line player now, but that's obviously not his fault. It wouldn't be correct to gauge his value as that of a fourth line player in a trade.

I'd say it was a fairly even trade. Stepan being a 1C is a bit of a stretch IMO and goalies just don't have that much value in trades. A very good 2C with speed issues and a pending NMC plus a passable 1G for a young defensive prospect and the 7th overall pick isn't a fleecing. Whether they did or didn't use that pick on the best player available in your opinion is irrelevant to gauging the actual trade itself. I'm not sure Andersson was the best pick there, but I think the clear best picks were off the board already and it's too early to judge Andersson based on a handful of SHL games.

Yes, or course you're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. It sounded to me as if you were saying it's a fact that the trade was terrible and anyone who argues it is making up fictions. If that wasn't what you mean, my apologies.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

People always say Stepan literally centered a top line as their argument for him being a '1c'. By that same logic, Danny Girardi is(was) a top-pairing defenseman even it the latter is a bit more far fetched.

And I like how LA is a 'bad pick' months after being drafted. May I have the lottery numbers while were at it?

 

[DanielBrassard]

People always say Stepan literally centered a top line as their argument for him being a '1c'. By that same logic, Danny Girardi is(was) a top-pairing defenseman even it the latter is a bit more far fetched.

And I like how LA is a 'bad pick' months after being drafted. May I have the lottery numbers while were at it?

It's not the same logic at all, since Stepan actually produced like a 1C.

Comparing Girardi to Stepan is so ridiculous I can't even describe it.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

57 points over 82 games and 50% possession player over the course of his career.

i think top line center production label is a bit generous.

 

[FJB]

Nieves has 3 points in 1 game.
Nash has 1 point in 11 games.
LOL

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If Lias and Tony work out the trade looks better. Right now it doesn't look so good.

I wish they would have gotten something else. Anything else from the Coyotes. Crouse, Perlini, Fischer, just one of them

 

[Synergy27]

57 points over 82 games and 50% possession player over the course of his career.

i think top line center production label is a bit generous.

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but I think people have a very hard time realizing that not every first liner is an all star. The Rangers play in a loaded division, so I understand why this might happen. Stepan isn't Crosby, but he's 100% a 1C. There is a 1C spectrum, and Stepan is near the bottom of it, but he's on it.

That said, I thought the trade was ok, and I still do. Stepan was a second round pick who the team got a bunch of great years and playoff runs out of. They moved him before his decline and recouped an asset that should have every expectation of filling the gap he left for the next decade.

They got a little unlucky with the way the draft played out, and I'd prefer that they commit to the rebuild instead of taking this hybrid approach, but I think the Stepan strategy was mostly correct.

 

[McD37]

How do you figure Chayka "destroyed him" exactly? What "extraordinary lengths?" Some people just disagree with you on that, it doesn't mean they're desperately trying to bend reality, it's a matter of opinion and they have a different opinion than you.

I also do not think Rangers could have gotten more for Stepan. There was no NTC, NMC, so Gorton was free to talk to anyone, there were many teams interested, but at the end of the day this was probably the best offer he got for Stepan.