Rumor: Strickland: EDM has 7 and 8yr deals confirmed with Hyman

[paulhiggins]

I think if Hyman ever reads this and finds out how whiney Oilers fans are and that his new GM is just as incompetent as the old one he'll accept a late offer from another team instead of Oilers. I would!

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think if Hyman ever reads this and finds out how whiney Oilers fans are and that his new GM is just as incompetent as the old one he'll accept a late offer from another team instead of Oilers. I would!

It has been a long time since his Florida days.

 

[Torontoborn]

I am going to miss this guy!

 

[bucks_oil]

Lehner via Toronto,
Janmark via San Jose
Foligno via San Jose (4th)

Thanks for those, very helpful, so just to lay it out:

Lehner: 1.1M saved (Vegas benefit) + 1.1M retained (Toronto cost) = 5th round pick less the value of Dzierkals. That's a total of $2.2M in cap impact for less than a 5th.

Janmark: ~$600K saved via SJ (Dallas' benefit) + $600K retained (San Jose cost) = 5th round pick.

Foligno: $1.375M saved via SJ (Toronto Benefit) + $1.375M retained (San Jose cost) = 4th round pick.

VS

Hyman: $500K saved (Edmonton Benefit) + $0 actually retained (no cost to Toronto) = ???

I suppose you can argue that the aggregate benefit to Edmonton is higher (8 x $500K), but Toronto doesn't have a cost at all, so its not comparable. I would firmly argue that someone else's cap savings is worth some multiple less than the actual cap retained and the $$$ being spent. In short, San Jose and Toronto were actually paying that retained salary and it influenced their cap.

The value would most logically be ascribed (entirely/predominantly/mostly... you pick your word) to the retainee's actual dollars paid and cap retained.

That is not the case here... Toronto pays nothing and retains nothing. Sure Edmonton's gain must be worth something, but it's clearly not the same sort of equation as any of your examples above.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Leafs will be a softer team but Hyman is not worth an 8 year deal come on now

 

[inthe6ix]

Maybe Dubas should take the 6th to recoup some of that lost assets he dumped away for nothing on McCann

It wasn't for nothing - he did it to protect Holl. That may not mean anything to non-Leaf fans who hate him and see him as a bottom 6'er, but he fills a nice spot in our top 4.. RHD, good contract (2M AAV) and meshes extremely well with Muzz.

KD should take no less than whatever he is asking for from Kenny and I am glad he is sticking to his guns when other GMs are 'pulling the pin' as well:

Kristen Shilton: Kyle Dubas not bending on potential Zach Hyman sign-and-trade - TSN.ca

“We know what the value is of the eighth year with the cap savings and so if there's a fair deal to be made to do that, we'll do that,” Dubas told reporters on a Zoom call Saturday, following the conclusion of the 2021 NHL Entry Draft. “But we've been in that situation before [too], and the other GMs aren't helping you out there; they’re pulling the pin from the grenade and they're throwing it to you. I know there's a narrative that we should just get something but you're saving a team significant dollars on the salary cap and that comes with the cost, and we're not going to bend on [what we think is fair].”

 

[Mr Positive]

It wasn't for nothing - he did it to protect Holl. That may not mean anything to non-Leaf fans who hate him and see him as a bottom 6'er, but he fills a nice spot in our top 4.. RHD, good contract (2M AAV) and meshes extremely well with Muzz.

KD should take no less than whatever he is asking for from Kenny and I am glad he is sticking to his guns when other GMs are 'pulling the pin' as well:

Kristen Shilton: Kyle Dubas not bending on potential Zach Hyman sign-and-trade - TSN.ca

This has been going around in circles. There is no cap savings. Only in the short term. Short term savings are worth more than long term outlook but to read Dubas literally describe this as retention (using that word even) shows this is not exactly straight shooting and more of the used car pitch.

It's also interesting to me how this has evolved into both sides turning this into an issue of principle, happy to paralyze what should be a simple thing just out of some sense of pride. I feel like Dubas and Holland may actually walk away from this just because it has seemed to turn fan sentiment in their favor. But of course both sides are hurt by not compromising.

It just shows yet again how sports are nothing like they are presented in video games.

As an Oiler fan I'm actually fine with the 7 year option. The team needs picks more than a few 100k of space. But the 8 year would be better. I wonder if there isnt a non-pick option

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Thanks for those, very helpful, so just to lay it out:

Lehner: 1.1M saved (Vegas benefit) + 1.1M retained (Toronto cost) = 5th round pick less the value of Dzierkals. That's a total of $2.2M in cap impact for less than a 5th.

Janmark: ~$600K saved via SJ (Dallas' benefit) + $600K retained (San Jose cost) = 5th round pick.

Foligno: $1.375M saved via SJ (Toronto Benefit) + $1.375M retained (San Jose cost) = 4th round pick.

VS

Hyman: $500K saved (Edmonton Benefit) + $0 actually retained (no cost to Toronto) = ???

I suppose you can argue that the aggregate benefit to Edmonton is higher (8 x $500K), but Toronto doesn't have a cost at all, so its not comparable. I would firmly argue that someone else's cap savings is worth some multiple less than the actual cap retained and the $$$ being spent. In short, San Jose and Toronto were actually paying that retained salary and it influenced their cap.

The value would most logically be ascribed (entirely/predominantly/mostly... you pick your word) to the retainee's actual dollars paid and cap retained.

That is not the case here... Toronto pays nothing and retains nothing. Sure Edmonton's gain must be worth something, but it's clearly not the same sort of equation as any of your examples above.

In the case of the Leafs retaining, or SJ's two retention deals - sure there is some level of cost associated to the team doing the retaining that Toronto doesn't have to incur here - but the cost was 1 season, prorated $$$ as well (so its even less than 1.1, 600k, and 1.375 given that there was about a month left in the season on each of those retentions). Given that they were deadline timing deals as well - that cap space wasn't going to be utilized by SJ or TOR in the respective years - so the teams likely didn't view it as much of a cost at all.

So Dubas' argument here would be that the item being paid for is the benefit to EDM - or in the prior cases - the benefit to Vegas, CHI, TOR - and not much about the cost because the cost is quite trivial - we can disagree on that one way or another - but thats how they would view it.

500K saved this year for example on the cap is more than any of the 1.1M, 600K, and 1.375M that would have been prorated to one month.

Its also 7 years of 500K being saved versus 1 season/1 month.

All things considered - its not unreasonable for either Toronto or EDM to believe it should be worth more - or less - which is why there is a negotiation and they likely will not agree.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Thanks for those, very helpful, so just to lay it out:

Lehner: 1.1M saved (Vegas benefit) + 1.1M retained (Toronto cost) = 5th round pick less the value of Dzierkals. That's a total of $2.2M in cap impact for less than a 5th.

Janmark: ~$600K saved via SJ (Dallas' benefit) + $600K retained (San Jose cost) = 5th round pick.

Foligno: $1.375M saved via SJ (Toronto Benefit) + $1.375M retained (San Jose cost) = 4th round pick.

VS

Hyman: $500K saved (Edmonton Benefit) + $0 actually retained (no cost to Toronto) = ???

I suppose you can argue that the aggregate benefit to Edmonton is higher (8 x $500K), but Toronto doesn't have a cost at all, so its not comparable. I would firmly argue that someone else's cap savings is worth some multiple less than the actual cap retained and the $$$ being spent. In short, San Jose and Toronto were actually paying that retained salary and it influenced their cap.

The value would most logically be ascribed (entirely/predominantly/mostly... you pick your word) to the retainee's actual dollars paid and cap retained.

That is not the case here... Toronto pays nothing and retains nothing. Sure Edmonton's gain must be worth something, but it's clearly not the same sort of equation as any of your examples above.

Toronto obviously isn't going to retain if there were a sign an trade.

 

[Crabapple]

Honestly, pretty excited to get Hyman. 7 years>8 years, if we don't win before Connor & Leon's contract is up we'll be in a rebuild anyway. He should really help with our 5v5 scoring which is our biggest need. Contract is whatever, we need to enter win-now mode. Clock is ticking

 

[Stealth1616]

There is no fallacy except the one in your head. If Holland doesn't need the leafs to help them, than why offer a draft pick? If Holland prefers the 7 year deal, why ask Dubas to do a sign and trade? It's because the 8th year is to the benefit of the team to lower the AAV and not the player. If it was inconsequential Holland would not have offered a draft pick.

It literally is because you Leaf fans seem to be so obsessed with this “cap savings” issue that you think Oiler fans are upset at… when we aren’t at all. Majority prefer the 7 year deal and simply point out why Dubas didn’t take a free asset when offered

 

[TheBigM27]

Thanks for those, very helpful, so just to lay it out:

Lehner: 1.1M saved (Vegas benefit) + 1.1M retained (Toronto cost) = 5th round pick less the value of Dzierkals. That's a total of $2.2M in cap impact for less than a 5th.

Janmark: ~$600K saved via SJ (Dallas' benefit) + $600K retained (San Jose cost) = 5th round pick.

Foligno: $1.375M saved via SJ (Toronto Benefit) + $1.375M retained (San Jose cost) = 4th round pick.

VS

Hyman: $500K saved (Edmonton Benefit) + $0 actually retained (no cost to Toronto) = ???

I suppose you can argue that the aggregate benefit to Edmonton is higher (8 x $500K), but Toronto doesn't have a cost at all, so its not comparable. I would firmly argue that someone else's cap savings is worth some multiple less than the actual cap retained and the $$$ being spent. In short, San Jose and Toronto were actually paying that retained salary and it influenced their cap.

The value would most logically be ascribed (entirely/predominantly/mostly... you pick your word) to the retainee's actual dollars paid and cap retained.

That is not the case here... Toronto pays nothing and retains nothing. Sure Edmonton's gain must be worth something, but it's clearly not the same sort of equation as any of your examples above.

Actually, in an 8 year deal, the total cap savings is $4 million dollars. Also remember, if it was an 8 year deal, it would be Toronto who is signing Hyman, not Edmonton. How many signed player of his caliber were traded for a 6th round pick.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It literally is because you Leaf fans seem to be so obsessed with this “cap savings” issue that you think Oiler fans are upset at… when we aren’t at all. Majority prefer the 7 year deal and simply point out why Dubas didn’t take a free asset when offered

You Oiler fans are obsessed with this free asset that you claim to have offered, but has never materlized.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

HFboards is doing a stellar job at pumping Hyman's tires, and adding fuel to the 'We hate TO' fire to which they started.

Never change, HF.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I think if Hyman ever reads this and finds out how whiney Oilers fans are and that his new GM is just as incompetent as the old one he'll accept a late offer from another team instead of Oilers. I would!

I think he is using the oilers for an offer from another.

You can calls whiny as much as you like. But for me, signing a deal that you know will be bad is a red flag.

What is a greater concern to me is the leafs and oilers are in similar situations cap wise and the leafs do not want to sign him. Why? Cause they no the deal could be bad within 2 years.

Btw... just went to your home board and I gotta ask... do you need some cheese for all the whine their?

 

[AcerComputer]

It literally is because you Leaf fans seem to be so obsessed with this “cap savings” issue that you think Oiler fans are upset at… when we aren’t at all. Majority prefer the 7 year deal and simply point out why Dubas didn’t take a free asset when offered

I think most leaf fans don't see the 6th rounder as that valuable, and don't really care. All I see are EDM fans that are mad Dubas won't take the deal, because they want to reduce the cap hit from $5.5m to $5m. I thought what you wrote was pretty slanderous about Dubas. Most of the vitriol is from Oilers fan on here, so not even sure what you are talking about.

 

[Stealth1616]

You Oiler fans are obsessed with this free asset that you claim to have offered, but has never materlized.

Because your GM turned that into a negotiation when he had absolutely no negotiation power ? It’s is common knowledge a 6th round pick was offered

 

[LTIR]

I think most leaf fans don't see the 6th rounder as that valuable, and don't really care. All I see are EDM fans that are mad Dubas won't take the deal, because they want to reduce the cap hit from $5.5m to $5m. I thought what you wrote was pretty slanderous about Dubas. Most of the vitriol is from Oilers fan on here, so not even sure what you are talking about.

You see what you want to see and ignore the rest.
Oilers fans are just laughing at Dubas for supposedly asking for a 2nd/3rd just so Holland can add an extra year to deal. This player if signed isn't worth a 2nd himself.

Oilers fans don't want the 8 yrs , we don't even want 7 or 6.

6M x 4yr ala Hall is what Hyman is worth. 7yrs is horrible but we have come around to it now.

8 isn't even on the card anymore now that both sides have moved on. Leafs fans can still hope something changes in the next 2 days and they get a 2022 pick.. it is just as unlikely as Hyman circling back and signing with TML.

Time to move on I say

 

[Stealth1616]

I think most leaf fans don't see the 6th rounder as that valuable, and don't really care. All I see are EDM fans that are mad Dubas won't take the deal, because they want to reduce the cap hit from $5.5m to $5m. I thought what you wrote was pretty slanderous about Dubas. Most of the vitriol is from Oilers fan on here, so not even sure what you are talking about.

Again, majority of Oiler fans prefer the 7 year deal so I don’t know where you seem to be getting that (strawman). At least from me, I’ve always just wondered why you turn down a free asset vs nothing

 

[Mr Positive]

Because your GM turned that into a negotiation when he had absolutely no negotiation power ? It’s is common knowledge a 6th round pick was offered

That was a starting position. But c'mon, goodrow was traded for a 7th, and that was just his rights. If Toronto does this extra service it is worth more than just his rights, and the difference is more than a 6th. And I'm an Oilers fan. But, I dont think it is worth a 2nd. The negotiation should land at a 4th rounder maybe

 

[Stealth1616]

That was a starting position. But c'mon, goodrow was traded for a 7th, and that was just his rights. If Toronto does this extra service it is worth more than just his rights, and the difference is more than a 6th. And I'm an Oilers fan. But, I dont think it is worth a 2nd. The negotiation should land at a 4th rounder maybe

The negotiation for a draft pick or draft pick increase should of been done prior to negotiations with the player not once 2 different contracts are agreed to lol

 

[Jumptheshark]

The negotiation for a draft pick or draft pick increase should of been done prior to negotiations with the player not once 2 different contracts are agreed to lol

I agree

 

[Mr Positive]

The negotiation for a draft pick or draft pick increase should of been done prior to negotiations with the player not once 2 different contracts are agreed to lol

Perhaps ideally but I dont see it as necessary. Either way if Holland is comfortable with 7 or 8 years, then theres no reason for him to be offended if the ask for a sign and trade is more than he'd like, and there's no indication he is

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Because your GM turned that into a negotiation when he had absolutely no negotiation power ? It’s is common knowledge a 6th round pick was offered

Yeah when Holland phones Dubas and asks for the 8th year deal, offering a 6th round pick Dubas must reply "yes master Ken - whatever you desire - I am powerless"

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

That was a starting position. But c'mon, goodrow was traded for a 7th, and that was just his rights. If Toronto does this extra service it is worth more than just his rights, and the difference is more than a 6th. And I'm an Oilers fan. But, I dont think it is worth a 2nd. The negotiation should land at a 4th rounder maybe

Most reasonable take.

Dubas can ask for a 2nd (or whatever) - Holland can offer a 6th (or whatever). Neither is unreasonable here - particularly because I bet Holland is fine with the 7 or 8 year deal - EDM isn't capped out.

Neither side is unreasonable here at all - and if Hyman signs a 7 year deal Wednesday - which I imagine he most likely will - that's fine!