Rumor: Strickland: EDM has 7 and 8yr deals confirmed with Hyman

[Stealth1616]

Yeah when Holland phones Dubas and asks for the 8th year deal, offering a 6th round pick Dubas must reply "yes master Ken - whatever you desire - I am powerless"

Of course he doesn’t and rightfully should ask for a higher pick. A negotiation was never part of Holland’s plan as he already had another deal with the player… he just says ok man we’ll just do that one then.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Of course he doesn’t and rightfully should ask for a higher pick. A negotiation was never part of Holland’s plan as he already had another deal with the player… he just says ok man we’ll just do that one then.

And Dubas is fine with that too!

 

[Stealth1616]

Fine with getting nothing over something? Using rationale thinking that just doesn’t make sense. As a fan, you are comfortable in that line of decision making ? It’s seems like a large portion of Leaf fans are a little uneasy with that as well

 

[joepeps]

Fine with getting nothing over something? Using rationale thinking that just doesn’t make sense. As a fan, you are comfortable in that line of decision making ? It’s seems like a large portion of Leaf fans are a little uneasy with that as well

We are fine getting nothing for Hyman. We didn't plan on getting anything anyways as he is a UFA... If we are trading his RIGHTS, sure give us a 6th or 7th we will gladly take it for nothing.

What Edmonton wants is for Toronto to sign hyman and then trade him to Edmonton. Why would we sign him for 8 years, help Edmonton save cap of 500K x 8 (4 million) for a 6th rounder?

This makes no sense. Would you sign Adam Larson for 8 years x 4 mil and then trade him to Toronto for a 6th or say thats not worth it?

 

[joepeps]

Fine with getting nothing over something? Using rationale thinking that just doesn’t make sense. As a fan, you are comfortable in that line of decision making ? It’s seems like a large portion of Leaf fans are a little uneasy with that as well

I left this conversation days ago and I came back and your saying the same thing lol... I though you said you didn't care and preferred 7 years... give it up. ITS OVER take the 7 years and be happy. Don't worry about other teams and what they do or dont do. You will be more happy in life.

 

[Stealth1616]

That’s absolutely worth taking a free asset for a player I am losing regardless. That helps my team even if it’s a small chance of landing that pick. I don’t even know how that’s debatable

 

[TheBigM27]

Of course he doesn’t and rightfully should ask for a higher pick. A negotiation was never part of Holland’s plan as he already had another deal with the player… he just says ok man we’ll just do that one then.

The thing is, Holland can't offer an 8 year contract, only Toronto can.

 

[Stealth1616]

I left this conversation days ago and I came back and your saying the same thing lol... I though you said you didn't care and preferred 7 years... give it up. ITS OVER take the 7 years and be happy. Don't worry about other teams and what they do or dont do. You will be more happy in life.

Exactly… I’ve always said the same thing in this thread. And then have Leaf fans gaslighting and making strawman arguments to make them feel better about poor management

 

[TheBigM27]

Fine with getting nothing over something? Using rationale thinking that just doesn’t make sense. As a fan, you are comfortable in that line of decision making ? It’s seems like a large portion of Leaf fans are a little uneasy with that as well

So what is Hyman worth to Edmonton if he is signed by Toronto to a 8 year contract at $5 million per year?

 

[TheBigM27]

We are fine getting nothing for Hyman. We didn't plan on getting anything anyways as he is a UFA... If we are trading his RIGHTS, sure give us a 6th or 7th we will gladly take it for nothing.

What Edmonton wants is for Toronto to sign hyman and then trade him to Edmonton. Why would we sign him for 8 years, help Edmonton save cap of 500K x 8 (4 million) for a 6th rounder?

This makes no sense. Would you sign Adam Larson for 8 years x 4 mil and then trade him to Toronto for a 6th or say thats not worth it?

I agree 100 percent.

 

[TheBigM27]

That’s absolutely worth taking a free asset for a player I am losing regardless. That helps my team even if it’s a small chance of landing that pick. I don’t even know how that’s debatable

Toronto's not losing Hyman if they sign him to a 8 year contract. They have to trade him to Edmonton, and Holland didn't like the price of a signed Hyman. Sign him for 7 years, don't save $500,000.00 in cap space and move on.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Fine with getting nothing over something? Using rationale thinking that just doesn’t make sense. As a fan, you are comfortable in that line of decision making ? It’s seems like a large portion of Leaf fans are a little uneasy with that as well

There are two schools of thought on assets in the NHL.

one: get something for it, no matter what. You end up with more assets, but other general managers learn that when push comes to shove, you'll cave.

two: set your price, hold your ground, and don't back off of it. You'll lose more assets for nothing, but when the time comes for negotiations that matter in trades for more than a draft pick, you might have gained some respect that the asking price is the asking price and don't waste my time with less.

I don't know that there's a right or a wrong answer, it's just different styles of negotiation.

 

[Stealth1616]

Absolutely, and I’d agree different philosophies differ for each scenario. In this specific one though Dubas should have done any negotiating prior to letting Edmonton negotiate with the player. Dubas has no power in this situation to turn it into a meaningful negotiation at this stage.

 

[inthe6ix]

There are two schools of thought on assets in the NHL.

one: get something for it, no matter what. You end up with more assets, but other general managers learn that when push comes to shove, you'll cave.

two: set your price, hold your ground, and don't back off of it. You'll lose more assets for nothing, but when the time comes for negotiations that matter in trades for more than a draft pick, you might have gained some respect that the asking price is the asking price and don't waste my time with less.

I don't know that there's a right or a wrong answer, it's just different styles of negotiation.

sign me up for option 2

 

[Nizdizzle]

That’s absolutely worth taking a free asset for a player I am losing regardless. That helps my team even if it’s a small chance of landing that pick. I don’t even know how that’s debatable

As a Leafs fan, I'm fully on board with Dubas holding firm. The Leafs shouldn't be doing favours for Oilers and get strong-armed.

Toronto accepts the 6th round pick for Hyman's rights:
Toronto gets: 6th round pick (minor positive value)
Edmonton gets: 500k-700k* savings on the cap for next 7 years (significant positive value)

Toronto does not accepts the 6th round pick for Hyman's rights:
Toronto gets: Nothing
Edmonton gets: Nothing

This non-trade has Toronto losing out on an extremely minor asset, and Edmonton losing cap savings for the better part of a decade. Unless you think the value for 500k cap savings for 7 years is only a 6th round pick (history suggests it is worth much), the Oilers are the ones who stood to lose most by this non-trade. The Oilers should have upped the ante to save themselves on the cap for the next 7 years when they will very likely be in a position to need it. Dubas losing out on a potential 6th round pick but at least gets the feather in his had that he won't always be the first to blink in a game of chicken with other GMs.

There are a few non-direct benefits from Dubas not rolling over and taking what he can get.
*whatever the difference in the 7 and 8 year cap hits ends up as.

 

[Pucklington]

We still talking about this? Like does anyone care about 7 vs 8 years...

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Absolutely, and I’d agree different philosophies differ for each scenario. In this specific one though Dubas should have done any negotiating prior to letting Edmonton negotiate with the player. Dubas has no power in this situation to turn it into a meaningful negotiation at this stage.

Dubas should have negotiated what it would cost to save EDM an undetermined amount of cap space? EDM discussed and agreed to two potential contracts with Hyman. How is Dubas supposed to know that the 8 year deal is going to be 400K less than the 7 year deal in advance of Edmonton even discussing with Hyman what the contract was going to look like? Hyman also had free will to talk to anyone - and didn't just talk to Edmonton.

Do you honestly think Dubas should have tried to negotiate with every team that was interested in Hyman in advance of Hyman and whatever team he agreed to a contract with what potential costs would be?

Come on lol.

 

[inthe6ix]

Absolutely, and I’d agree different philosophies differ for each scenario. In this specific one though Dubas should have done any negotiating prior to letting Edmonton negotiate with the player. Dubas has no power in this situation to turn it into a meaningful negotiation at this stage.

KD has the power to give EDM a lower cap hit and he and Kenny tried negotiating on the pick, so not sure what you're smoking.. whether it was done before or after Zach's own deals, is irrelevant. He is still our player until Wednesday.

 

[Pinnerdink]

We are fine getting nothing for Hyman. We didn't plan on getting anything anyways as he is a UFA... If we are trading his RIGHTS, sure give us a 6th or 7th we will gladly take it for nothing.

Unless I'm mistaken...Toronto can trade his "RIGHTS" to Edmonton and then they can sign him to the 8 year contract?

They don't need Toronto to sign the papers...they can trade his rights and Edmonton can do it.

So...

 

[Stealth1616]

As a Leafs fan, I'm fully on board with Dubas holding firm. The Leafs shouldn't be doing favours for Oilers and get strong-armed.

Toronto accepts the 6th round pick for Hyman's rights:
Toronto gets: 6th round pick (minor positive value)
Edmonton gets: 500k-700k* savings on the cap for next 7 years (significant positive value)

Toronto does not accepts the 6th round pick for Hyman's rights:
Toronto gets: Nothing
Edmonton gets: Nothing

This non-trade has Toronto losing out on an extremely minor asset, and Edmonton losing cap savings for the better part of a decade. Unless you think the value for 500k cap savings for 7 years is only a 6th round pick (history suggests it is worth much), the Oilers are the ones who stood to lose most by this non-trade. The Oilers should have upped the ante to save themselves on the cap for the next 7 years when they will very likely be in a position to need it. Dubas losing out on a potential 6th round pick but at least gets the feather in his had that he won't always be the first to blink in a game of chicken with other GMs.

There are a few non-direct benefits from Dubas not rolling over and taking what he can get.
*whatever the difference in the 7 and 8 year cap hits ends up as.

This would be a classic prisoners dilemma. However in option 2 the oilers don’t gain nothing. This is the preferred option for Oiler fans so they gain the player at the better contract according to most

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Unless I'm mistaken...Toronto can trade his "RIGHTS" to Edmonton and then they can sign him to the 8 year contract?

They don't need Toronto to sign the papers...they can trade his rights and Edmonton can do it.

So...

Nah EDM can't sign Hyman to an 8 year contract. Hyman would have had to be an Oiler before last year's trade deadline per the CBA.

I don't think it matters too much though - I think its a stretch to say the Leafs are trading Hyman signed to an 8 year deal.

They're negotiating what it would cost to get the 8th year. Holland probably doesn't care between 7/8 years and Dubas thinks the cap savings are worth more than a 6th round pick. They probably won't agree - and there won't be an 8 year contract for Hyman (which is fine for both sides). This is probably why these deals never happen to begin with.

 

[Nizdizzle]

This would be a classic prisoners dilemma. However in option 2 the oilers don’t gain nothing. This is the preferred option for Oiler fans so they gain the player at the better contract according to most

With all due respect, I don't think it really matters or is worth discussing what Oilers fans prefer. The 7 and 8 year contracts are negotiated by management.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

This would be a classic prisoners dilemma. However in option 2 the oilers don’t gain nothing. This is the preferred option for Oiler fans so they gain the player at the better contract according to most

Why do you keep talking about Oilers fans as if they're the ones signing Hyman to the contract/making trades on behalf of the Oilers? Most Oilers fans wouldn't have traded for Duncan Keith - but it happened, and I don't think Chicago should have changed their ask in that trade based on what Oilers fans preferred.

 

[Pinnerdink]

Nah EDM can't sign Hyman to an 8 year contract. Hyman would have had to be an Oiler before last year's trade deadline per the CBA.

I don't think it matters too much though - I think its a stretch to say the Leafs are trading Hyman signed to an 8 year deal.

They're negotiating what it would cost to get the 8th year. Holland probably doesn't care between 7/8 years and Dubas thinks the cap savings are worth more than a 6th round pick. They probably won't agree - and there won't be an 8 year contract for Hyman (which is fine for both sides). This is probably why these deals never happen to begin with.

Ah OK...my bad...

Semantics both ways...but you're right...both sides see a value and if they don't agree its fine

 

[Stealth1616]

KD has the power to give EDM a lower cap hit and he and Kenny tried negotiating on the pick, so not sure what you're smoking.. whether it was done before or after Zach's own deals, is irrelevant. He is still our player until Wednesday.

He clearly did not negotiate shit. It was Dubas trying to turn it into a dumb negotiation when we already had another deal signed. If you think Dubas had any kind of negotiating power in that situation you are just out to lunch