Steven Stamkos vs. John Tavares

[Dache]

Tavares was not getting the benefit the doubt only being 1 year removed from a career season in Toronto.

Where were the same topics saying is Stamkos done because he was missing games in the regular season before Covid 19 shutdown it down and he wasn't able to play in the playoffs, with the exception of his 2:47 against Dallas in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final.

Dude. I just showed you times that he was accused of being on the decline. He wasn’t accused of it last year cause he had 66pts in 57 games. Stop being so delusional and look at it from an outside perspective. Which player looks like they are declining
47 goals, 88pts then 26 goals 60 pts in 63 games 34 goals 78 pt pace
Or
45 goals 98 pts then 29goals 66pts in 57 games
42 goals 95 pt pace
One is a 13 goal drop and 10 pts, the other is 3 goals and 3 pts.

 

[Dache]

Since Tampa won the Stanley Cup last season without Stamkos why don't they trade him and save $8.5 million. They have more a history of losing in the playoffs like the 2015 Stanley Cup Final and blowing 3-2 series in the 2018 Eastern Conference Final when he's healthy.

Has Toronto lost more in the playoffs than Tampa?

 

[Dache]

In Tavares first year they didn't finish any worse in the Atlantic Division because they were still 3rd and in the overall standings they were 7th overall. The only difference is they had 100 points compared to 105 points in the 2017-18 Season.

So 100 = 105 or 100 < 105?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So 100 = 105 or 100 < 105?

Yes Toronto did get 5 less points in Tavares first season, which I already said was true.

However in the overall standings Toronto finished 7th which is where they finished 1 year before when he was playing with the Islanders.

So Toronto did not do any worse when you take that into account.

 

[Koivu11]

In Tavares first year they didn't finish any worse in the Atlantic Division because they were still 3rd and in the overall standings they were 7th overall. The only difference is they had 100 points compared to 105 points in the 2017-18 Season.

You would think the team would have improved instead of stagnate after adding an 11 million dollar player.

 

[Dache]

Yes Toronto did get 5 less points in Tavares first season, which I already said was true.

However in the overall standings Toronto finished 7th which is where they finished 1 year before when he was playing with the Islanders.

So Toronto did not do any worse when you take that into account.

Is 100 worse than 105?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You would think the team would have improved instead of stagnate after adding an 11 million dollar player.

When Toronto got those 105 points they also went 7-2 in the shootout and next season they were 0-2 in the shootout. So that was one factor which they did not finish any higher than 7th overall.

 

[Koivu11]

When Toronto got those 105 points they also went 7-2 in the shootout and next season they were 0-2 in the shootout. So that was one factor which they did not finish any higher than 7th overall.

So they could’ve picked up an additional 2 points instead which is still not an improvement over the previous season.

 

[Dache]

When Toronto got those 105 points they also went 7-2 in the shootout and next season they were 0-2 in the shootout. So that was one factor which they did not finish any higher than 7th overall.

So they were worse the next year is what you were saying?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Is 100 worse than 105?

Look I'm not playing this game with you right now. I said Toronto had 5 less points in the standings in Tavares first year with Toronto.

I also correctly pointed out that Toronto did not finish any worse in the overall standings despite getting 5 less points.

2017-18 Standings showing Toronto in 7th overall with 105 points.
2017-2018 NHL Hockey Standings

2018-19 Standings showing Toronto 7th overall with 100 points.
2018-2019 NHL Hockey Standings

 

[Dache]

Look I'm not playing this game with you right now. I said Toronto had 5 less points in the standings in Tavares first year with Toronto.

I also correctly pointed out that Toronto did not finish any worse in the overall standings despite getting 5 less points.

2017-18 Standings showing Toronto in 7th overall with 105 points.
2017-2018 NHL Hockey Standings

2018-19 Standings showing Toronto 7th overall with 100 points.
2018-2019 NHL Hockey Standings

I’m not playing any games either. I’m telling you that 100 is worse than 105 so they did worse. Just because other teams in their division were worse in the same amount changes nothing

 

[LeafsNation75]

So they could’ve picked up an additional 2 points instead which is still not an improvement over the previous season.

In the 2017-18 Season Toronto had 5 overtime loses.

In the 2018-19 Season Toronto had 6 overtime loses.

So losing one more game when they were playing 3v3 and those two shootout loses is one reason they didn't improve on their points.

2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule and Results | Hockey-Reference.com

2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule and Results | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’m not playing any games either. I’m telling you that 100 is worse than 105 so they did worse. Just because other teams in their division were worse in the same amount changes nothing

Yes Toronto did worse if you only look at it from their total points perspective.

However they did not finish any worse in the overall standings which is still true, even if you choose not to believe facts like that.

 

[Dache]

Yes Toronto did worse if you only look at it from their total points perspective.

However they did not finish any worse in the overall standings which is still true, even if you choose not to believe facts like that.

So they finished the same in the standings but worse in points. Yes those are facts. How about addressing my post on why Stamkos didn’t get accused of declining last year now? Or are you back on ignoring posts that you ask for but have no answer to?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So they finished the same in the standings but worse in points. Yes those are facts. How about addressing my post on why Stamkos didn’t get accused of declining last year now? Or are you back on ignoring posts that you ask for but have no answer to?

I have said all I can about Stamkos injury history and Tavares injury history.

 

[Koivu11]

In the 2017-18 Season Toronto had 5 overtime loses.

In the 2018-19 Season Toronto had 6 overtime loses.

So losing one more game when they were playing 3v3 and those two shootout loses is one reason they didn't improve on their points.

2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule and Results | Hockey-Reference.com

2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule and Results | Hockey-Reference.com

Ok then let’s say they win those games and get an additional 3 points. That gives them 103 which is still less than the 105 from the previous season.

I was saying you’d think they would’ve improved on those totals after adding an 11 million dollar player so I’m not sure why you’re arguing that those OT/shootout losses are the reason for not having improved on their point totals from the season before.

 

[Dache]

I have said all I can about Stamkos injury history and Tavares injury history.

But you specifically asked me why Stamkos wasn’t accused of declining last year and have not replied to my response.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Ok then let’s say they win those games and get an additional 3 points. That gives them 103 which is still less than the 105 from the previous season.

I was saying you’d think they would’ve improved on those totals after adding an 11 million dollar player so I’m not sure why you’re arguing that those OT/shootout losses are the reason for not having improved on their point totals from the season before.

I'm saying when Toronto got those 105 points a huge reason for that was going 7-2 in the shootout, where as the next season they were 0-2 in the shootout.

Even though the 105 points set a new Maple Leafs franchise record for points in a season, their previous record of 103 points in the 2003-04 Season happened when there was no shootouts, 4v4 was still being played in overtime and games could end in a tie.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Y’all gotta take it easy on this Leaf fan chill lol

 

[CupsOverCash]

Stamkos and I don't think its close.

 

[Steven Toast]

These two are good comparable's. But in big categories (career production, current production, contract) Stamkos has a slim but definitive edge. On a subjective note I also think Stamkos' game will age better than Tavares.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Tavares is averaging over a point per game since coming Toronto I don't see that as a bad thing.

So you don't think salary also factors in to what is good production relative to that salary? Everything's just black and white for you where a player could be making $15 million per year, but as long as he scores 80 points you think that's fine?

If Jack Eichel never scores more than 88 points for the rest of his current contract with the Sabres, you still think he's worth that money? You don't think a high salary puts more expectation on a player to not just be "okay" but actually one of the top players in the entire league?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So you don't think salary also factors in to what is good production relative to that salary? Everything's just black and white for you where a player could be making $15 million per year, but as long as he scores 80 points you think that's fine?

If Jack Eichel never scores more than 88 points for the rest of his current contract with the Sabres, you still think he's worth that money? You don't think a high salary puts more expectation on a player to not just be "okay" but actually one of the top players in the entire league?

If you want to mention how much Tavares makes and what Stamkos makes go ahead.

So when Tavares scored 47 goals which was 9 more than his previous career high of 38 goals, I thought he was worth the $11 million AAV he was making.

If Toronto wins a Stanley Cup with Tavares and I hope to see that happen, will anyone still say he's overpaid?

 

[Dache]

If you want to mention how much Tavares makes and what Stamkos makes go ahead.

So when Tavares scored 47 goals which was 9 more than his previous career high of 38 goals, I thought he was worth the $11 million AAV he was making.

If Toronto wins a Stanley Cup with Tavares and I hope to see that happen, will anyone still say he's overpaid?

Yes, if Hyman wins a Stanley cup with Toronto does he deserve 11m? Or is there more to salary than cups?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes, if Hyman wins a Stanley cup with Toronto does he deserve 11m? Or is there more to salary than cups?

The money any player makes seems to matter if you want to bash them, because that's what others have done when they bring up how Tavares is overpaid at $11 million.