Steven Stamkos vs. John Tavares

[Sky04]

I also mentioned him and his wife having their first kid, which is something Leafs fans brought up last season.

You are not willing to accept that his injuries was a factor when you look at his starts in 2018-19 and 2019-20, along with his start this year which is similar to how he looked in his first year with Toronto.

His start this is still not worth his money. He should be at 90 point pace minimum. PPG is not worth 11m. He's the 4th highest paid forward tied for 18th in league scoring right now.

 

[Dache]

I also mentioned him and his wife having their first kid, which is something Leafs fans brought up last season.

You are not willing to accept that his injuries was a factor when you look at his starts in 2018-19 and 2019-20, along with his start this year which is similar to how he looked in his first year with Toronto.

I’m pointing out how impossible it is to prove a point when you tell someone they’re not allowed to use certain reasons, something you do often.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’m pointing out how impossible it is to prove a point when you tell someone they’re not allowed to use certain reasons, something you do often.

Except the difference is Tavares was already said to be on the decline because of his injuries last season and I can not remember anyone saying the same thing about Stamkos, even though he's had more injuries during his time with Tampa.

 

[Dache]

Except the difference is Tavares was already said to be on the decline because of his injuries last season and I can not remember anyone saying the same thing about Stamkos, even though he's had more injuries during his time with Tampa.

I’m saying how you tell people to prove things and then tell them they can’t use certain reasons is ridiculous.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’m saying how you tell people to prove things and then tell them they can’t use certain reasons is ridiculous.

I said if they want to mention Tavares not having a good season last year stats wise that's fine and it was true. Now that was due to his injuries and it's the only thing they won't admit.

However it's hypocritical to say that Tavares career was now on the decline even though he's younger than Stamkos.

It's also true that Stamkos has had more injuries during his NHL career and like I said before I can not remember anyone posting the exact same thing and saying his career was on the decline.

 

[Dache]

I said if they want to mention Tavares not having a good season last year stats wise that's fine and it was true. Now that was due to his injuries and it's the only thing they won't admit.

However it's hypocritical to say that Tavares career was now on the decline even though he's younger than Stamkos.

It's also true that Stamkos has had more injuries during his NHL career and like I said before I can not remember anyone posting the exact same thing and saying his career was on the decline.

All players decline at the same age?

 

[LeafsNation75]

All players decline at the same age?

I never said that. I'm saying since Stamkos has had more injuries and is older than Tavares, why hasn't anyone said he's on the decline and Tavares was based on his play last season.

 

[Dache]

I never said that. I'm saying since Stamkos has had more injuries and is older than Tavares, why hasn't anyone said he's on the decline and Tavares was based on his play last season.

Do you really not read anything that doesn’t have to do with the leafs?
Many people questioned if Stamkos could rebound from injuries. But I guess he has the wrong logo on his jersey for you to pay attention

 

[Sky04]

I never said that. I'm saying since Stamkos has had more injuries and is older than Tavares, why hasn't anyone said he's on the decline and Tavares was based on his play last season.

You clearly are new to hockey, let me introduce you to the 2014-2016 seasons. Difference being, Stamkos in a down year is still not a cap detriment like Tavares is. He was still producing 40 goals and 70 points at a 7.5m caphit. Tavares was under PPG at 11m.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You clearly are new to hockey, let me introduce you to the 2014-2016 seasons. Difference being, Stamkos in a down year is still not a cap detriment like Tavares is. He was still producing 40 goals and 70 points at a 7.5m caphit. Tavares was under PPG at 11m.

In Tavares first season in Toronto he was at a 1.07 PPG. Last season his PPG was 0.95 and so far this year he's at 1.00 PPG. In his 3 years with the Maple Leafs he is averaging 1.02 PPG.

John Tavares Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Sky04]

In Tavares first season in Toronto he was at a 1.07 PPG. Last season his PPG was 0.95 and so far this year he's at 1.00 PPG. In his 3 years with the Maple Leafs he is averaging 1.02 PPG.

John Tavares Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Hence why he's overpaid, 1.02 PPG is good for 25th in the league over that span where he averaged as the 3rd highest paid forward.

Thank you for proving our point, you laid it out perfectly and everything. Next.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Do you really not read anything that doesn’t have to do with the leafs?
Many people questioned if Stamkos could rebound from injuries. But I guess he has the wrong logo on his jersey for you to pay attention
View attachment 388561 View attachment 388562

Tavares was not getting the benefit the doubt only being 1 year removed from a career season in Toronto.

Where were the same topics saying is Stamkos done because he was missing games in the regular season before Covid 19 shutdown it down and he wasn't able to play in the playoffs, with the exception of his 2:47 against Dallas in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final.

 

[Sky04]

Tavares was not getting the benefit the doubt only being 1 year removed from a career season in Toronto.

Where were the same topics saying is Stamkos done because he was missing games in the regular season before Covid 19 shutdown it down and he wasn't able to play in the playoffs, with the exception of his 2:47 against Dallas in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final.

Stamkos had 66 points in 57 games, didn't underproduce like Tavares.

Next.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Hence why he's overpaid, 1.02 PPG is good for 25th in the league over that span where he averaged as the 3rd highest paid forward.

Thank you for proving our point, you laid it out perfectly and everything. Next.

If Tavares is averaging over a point per game since coming Toronto I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Stamkos had 66 points in 57 games, didn't underproduce like Tavares.

Next.

Wow Stamkos had 6 more points in the regular season than Tavares did. I guess Tavares should feel bad and retire over something like that.

 

[Sky04]

Wow Stamkos had 6 more points in the regular season than Tavares did. I guess Tavares should feel bad and retire over something like that.

In 6 less games at 2.5m cheaper. That 2.5m could've went to someone to help the leafs win a playoff round.

 

[Sky04]

If Tavares is averaging over a point per game since coming Toronto I don't see that as a bad thing.

Overpaid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

In 6 less games at 2.5m cheaper. That 2.5m could've went to someone to help the leafs win a playoff round.

Since Tampa won the Stanley Cup last season without Stamkos why don't they trade him and save $8.5 million. They have more a history of losing in the playoffs like the 2015 Stanley Cup Final and blowing 3-2 series in the 2018 Eastern Conference Final when he's healthy.

 

[Regal]

Tavares was not getting the benefit the doubt only being 1 year removed from a career season in Toronto.

Where were the same topics saying is Stamkos done because he was missing games in the regular season before Covid 19 shutdown it down and he wasn't able to play in the playoffs, with the exception of his 2:47 against Dallas in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final.

You're conflating missed games with playing through injury. Stamkos was playing great hockey last year before he missed time. Tavares didn't play that well last year in the games he played. You can argue that his decline was injury related, but it's easier to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who played great in the games he did play and then got injured, than someone who didn't play great in his games, even if it might have been injury related. The only question coming into the season for Stamkos was whether he was healthy. The question for Tavares was both whether he was healthy and how much of last years play was related to injury.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You're conflating missed games with playing through injury. Stamkos was playing great hockey last year before he missed time. Tavares didn't play that well last year in the games he played. You can argue that his decline was injury related, but it's easier to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who played great in the games he did play than someone who didn't play great in his games, even if it might have been injury related. The only question coming into the season for Stamkos was whether he was healthy. The question for Tavares was both whether he was healthy and how much of last years play was related to injury.

Tavares had played all 82 games for Toronto in the 2018-19 Season and set new career highs in goals scored and total points. So that only further proves my point last season his decline was injury related and this season I think Tavares proved exactly that.

 

[Sky04]

Since Tampa won the Stanley Cup last season without Stamkos why don't they trade him and save $8.5 million. They have more a history of losing in the playoffs like the 2015 Stanley Cup Final and blowing 3-2 series in the 2018 Eastern Conference Final when he's healthy.

By that logic the leafs should trade their entire roster cause they keep losing in round 1.

Next.

 

[LeafsNation75]

By that logic the leafs should trade their entire roster cause they keep losing in round 1.

Next.

So you don't find it a coincidence that Tampa loses multiple times in the playoffs with Stamkos and the one year he's injured they win a Stanley Cup with him having no impact why it happened.

 

[Sky04]

So you don't find it a coincidence that Tampa loses multiple times in the playoffs with Stamkos and the one year he's injured they win a Stanley Cup with him having no impact why it happened.

Do you find it a coincidence that the leafs have gotten worse every year since they added Tavares? They didn't even make the playoffs last year.

 

[Regal]

Tavares had played all 82 games for Toronto in the 2018-19 Season and set new career highs in goals scored and total points. So that only further proves my point last season his decline was injury related and this season I think Tavares proved exactly that.

Players can decline beyond injury. In general you want to give someone with his track record the benefit of the doubt but he's never been a strong skater and looked really slow last year, which isn't always injury related. I think it was likely injury, and Tavares looks better this year but it's still early.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Do you find it a coincidence that the leafs have gotten worse every year since they added Tavares? They didn't even make the playoffs last year.

In Tavares first year they didn't finish any worse in the Atlantic Division because they were still 3rd and in the overall standings they were 7th overall. The only difference is they had 100 points compared to 105 points in the 2017-18 Season.