Value of: Shea Weber to TOR

[Armourboy]

Just to answer because we've discussed Weber's contract a ton over the years so I think I have a decent handle on it ( although won't say I'm 100% accurate).

Once Weber retires Nashville will be on the hook for most of his recapture. Any team that pays him more actual dollars than what his cap hit was will also get hit with a portion of it ( although nothing like Nashville will). If I remember right, basically if he retires at 38 we would be on the hook for something like 24-25 million in recapture penalties per season for 2 years.

Now here is where it fuzzy. There is a possibility that the recapture mess gets dealt with in the next labor agreement, or Nashville trades for him and sticks him on LTIR until his contract runs out. There has also been the thought that the NHL may not hold us too it, or may work with us on it because we technically didn't negotiate the deal. It was an offersheet done by Philly, so the only say we had was matching or losing him. Also it has been argued that we might be able to get them to work with us as well because in only one of his seasons with us did it actually keep us from going over the Salary Cap, so technically there was no actual cap savings gained.

It's gonna be messy, and something we will be forced to deal with when that time comes.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Just to answer because we've discussed Weber's contract a ton over the years so I think I have a decent handle on it ( although won't say I'm 100% accurate).

Once Weber retires Nashville will be on the hook for most of his recapture. Any team that pays him more actual dollars than what his cap hit was will also get hit with a portion of it ( although nothing like Nashville will). If I remember right, basically if he retires at 38 we would be on the hook for something like 24-25 million in recapture penalties per season for 2 years.

Now here is where it fuzzy. There is a possibility that the recapture mess gets dealt with in the next labor agreement, or Nashville trades for him and sticks him on LTIR until his contract runs out. There has also been the thought that the NHL may not hold us too it, or may work with us on it because we technically didn't negotiate the deal. It was an offersheet done by Philly, so the only say we had was matching or losing him. Also it has been argued that we might be able to get them to work with us as well because in only one of his seasons with us did it actually keep us from going over the Salary Cap, so technically there was no actual cap savings gained.

It's gonna be messy, and something we will be forced to deal with when that time comes.

Wow...there is no way they hold Nashville to that. How would you even manage it? Just trade away 1/3 of your team for picks/prospects/cheap nhlers?

 

[Guffman]

https://www.stanleycupofchowder.com...Weber-Nashville-Predators--Flyers-Offer-Sheet

 

[BreakingGood]

Not interested in the term, cap hit, or the likely cost. He's also uh... I think you should be chasing other teams' underrated players. Everyone knows how good Weber is, so you end up paying what he's worth *and* taking on all the long-term downside. I'd go after guys that, to me anyway, are better than they're perceived to be. Chris Tanev, Mike Green, Jeff Petry, Colin Miller... I'm not quite sure how most people see Jacob Trouba, but I always feel like I like him more than most. Weber is mostly accurately rated, if not a little over.

 

[EP40 AKA Lil Wayne]

Webers game is a bit ’outdated’ for a top D. Rather go for a cheaper shutdown D who also makes safe plays with the puck. See some people wanting someone with good transition game but we have some D in the lineup who can do that and we got even more in the pipeline.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wow...there is no way they hold Nashville to that. How would you even manage it? Just trade away 1/3 of your team for picks/prospects/cheap nhlers?

The Wings face a similar problem with Zetterberg. His salary drops from $7M this season to $3.35M next season to $1M in the last two seasons where he is age 39 and 40. I believe the total recapture penalty for Zetterberg's contract would be $10.17M if he retires after next season. That's a cap hit of $5M+ the Wings would have to work around for two years I believe.

Were going to find out very soon how the NHL and Teams are going to handle those contracts and there are several players who have those $1M back end contracts. Hossa got away with it this year and I'm guessing the NHL will allow other teams to work around it as well. The tricky part with Weber is he no long plays for the Preds so the Habs would have to put him on LTIR for them. I always wondered if there was a pre negotiated deal behind the scenes between the two clubs that we don't know about. Seems risky for the Preds to take this risk

 

[mashedpotato]

Babcock swoons over Weber. Unfortunately, his contract , mobility and age are in direct violation of the Leafs (Or really any team in the NHL) operating practice.

Younger, cheaper, faster. He is not the answer.

 

[gabeliscious]

The Wings face a similar problem with Zetterberg. His salary drops from $7M this season to $3.35M next season to $1M in the last two seasons where he is age 39 and 40. I believe the total recapture penalty for Zetterberg's contract would be $10.17M if he retires after next season. That's a cap hit of $5M+ the Wings would have to work around for two years I believe.

Were going to find out very soon how the NHL and Teams are going to handle those contracts and there are several players who have those $1M back end contracts. Hossa got away with it this year and I'm guessing the NHL will allow other teams to work around it as well. The tricky part with Weber is he no long plays for the Preds so the Habs would have to put him on LTIR for them. I always wondered if there was a pre negotiated deal behind the scenes between the two clubs that we don't know about. Seems risky for the Preds to take this risk

im sure the handful of players who will be making $1 million the contracts will be grandfathered in.

 

[Legion34]

Just to answer because we've discussed Weber's contract a ton over the years so I think I have a decent handle on it ( although won't say I'm 100% accurate).

Once Weber retires Nashville will be on the hook for most of his recapture. Any team that pays him more actual dollars than what his cap hit was will also get hit with a portion of it ( although nothing like Nashville will). If I remember right, basically if he retires at 38 we would be on the hook for something like 24-25 million in recapture penalties per season for 2 years.

Now here is where it fuzzy. There is a possibility that the recapture mess gets dealt with in the next labor agreement, or Nashville trades for him and sticks him on LTIR until his contract runs out. There has also been the thought that the NHL may not hold us too it, or may work with us on it because we technically didn't negotiate the deal. It was an offersheet done by Philly, so the only say we had was matching or losing him. Also it has been argued that we might be able to get them to work with us as well because in only one of his seasons with us did it actually keep us from going over the Salary Cap, so technically there was no actual cap savings gained.

It's gonna be messy, and something we will be forced to deal with when that time comes.

If the leafs bought him out would cap recapture hit? It’s nuts that philly signed him and Nash would have to pay. Brutal

 

[Liferleafer]

If the leafs bought him out would cap recapture hit? It’s nuts that philly signed him and Nash would have to pay. Brutal

Nashville matched....they assumed all responsibilities the minute they matched.

 

[AppsSyl]

Habs need a full rebuild. It's evident.
Leafs want a top pairing RHD.

Babcock adores Weber. In fact, he just mentioned this a few days ago to a Montreal reporter:


I think a deal could be made between the Habs and the Leafs, involving Man Mountain Shea Weber.

Montreal is strictly looking for futures/prospects/young players. Obviously Weber is of a certain age, but he could definitely be of great use for another few years - enough for the Leafs to contend for the Cup a few times!

What do you say, Toronto?

Sometimes Mike Babcock needs to be protected from himself.

Managing a salary cap, likely isn't his forte.

 

[therealkoho]

Nitpicking but Weber's cap hit is $7.857M, not $12M. His salary is $12M.

ok, corrected.

Right. And his last big bonus of 8 milion was paid last July by the Habs. He is now very affordable. His salary will be around 6 milion next season. Leafs are super rich anyway... And we know that Babcock loves him. He loves Price too....

Marmer + next year Leafs 1st draft pick would be enough for Weber.

12m in total salary this year 8m paid up front July 1 and 4m over the season

next year his salary is 6m flat for 4 years and then 3m and the last 3 years @1m

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/shea-weber

and regardless of how wealthy the Leafs are, the problem is the AAV and nothing but the AAV, which remains at 7.87m for the life of the contract. The only time that would be advantageous is a for a team who needs to get to the floor, and that isn't the Leafs.

Marner.....just stop

 

[Legion34]

Nashville matched....they assumed all responsibilities the minute they matched.

But the penalties weren’t even in place to assume responsibility for.

 

[Liferleafer]

But the penalties weren’t even in place to assume responsibility for.

Were did i say penalties? I said responsibilities.....which, unfortunately for them, now include penalties.

 

[Trapper]

Sometimes Mike Babcock needs to be protected from himself.

Managing a salary cap, likely isn't his forte.

Babcock said he'll take him, he didn't say for what. The way he said it live struck me as sure if you're giving him away.
1. Leaf fans won't like the ask
2. Habs fans won't like the give

 

[Legion34]

Were did i say penalties? I said responsibilities.....which, unfortunately for them, now include penalties.

The penalties are for teams who actually attempted to circumvent the cap. Webber was an RFA and as far as we know Nashville was trying to make an honest and fair contract. Philly decided to sign him to a cheater contract and they had to either walk away from their captain for lottery tickets or take the contract. It’s not the same at all and it is ridiculous for them to be held to the same standard as like Chicago, Detroit et al. The other teams broke the spirit of the CBA. Nashville did not

 

[Bedards Dad]

On a different contract anyone not named Auston, Mitch or William is up for grabs. On the current contract I wouldn't take him for Martin. We would lose 1 or more of the big 3, just not worth it for someone at the tail end of their career, even if he is very very good.

 

[Liferleafer]

The penalties are for teams who actually attempted to circumvent the cap. Webber was an RFA and as far as we know Nashville was trying to make an honest and fair contract. Philly decided to sign him to a cheater contract and they had to either walk away from their captain for lottery tickets or take the contract. It’s not the same at all and it is ridiculous for them to be held to the same standard as like Chicago, Detroit et al. The other teams broke the spirit of the CBA. Nashville did not

It's exactly the same...they read the contract Philly offered....they knew exactly what it was....they chose to match it. If they wanted to stand on a moral soapbox because it was a "cheater contract", then they wouldn't have matched it. But the minute they matched it, it was them giving the contract....not Philly.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Coach Babcock would love to have Weber. GM Babcock would not. That contract is awful in a cap world.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Interesting offer, certainly makes sense for both teams at this juncture in terms of rosters and prospect pools: the Leafs will need to capitalize on the ELCs of their young stars and MTL clearly needs a rebuild.

I can't think the Leafs would have any appetite with how much Matthews, Nylander and Marner are going to be commanding in the near future however, it would essentialy shorten their window while making it (much) bigger for the shortened time span.

 

[Trapper]

Coach Babcock would love to have Weber. GM Babcock would not. That contract is awful in a cap world.

I can't see Bergevin trading Weber especially after the drama of acquiring him.
Also a 6-1 team isn't going to chase down a 1-6 team begging to give up multiple assets in a win deal for them. We can afford to carry on as is.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Not interested in that contract.

Not even if he came for free.

The available cap space in 3 or 4 years will be more valuable than Weber will be.

 

[Liferleafer]

To Habs fans saying the contract isn't that bad....question, with Price at 10.5....Weber at 7.8 and with some Habs fans hoping to sign Tavares...so lets say 8..what happens when guys like Mete and other youngsters need deals? Or Patches when his deal is up? This is why we don't want Weber's contract....the negative snowball effect will be felt for a while.

 

[jrgtml67]

I disagree. You are just changing the ugly word "rebuild," with "retool." It is still a bit early to jump the gun, Price has not been himself, and Habs do lead the league in shots. The better graphic would be to show where the shots are coming from. If they are from a grade A position, and they are missing, you can say; bad puck luck, or poor finishing skill. If they are from the outside, then it is either the players dont have what it takes to drive the net, or the teams they have been against have been really good. Now recently they played the Leafs, arguably should have won that one, Andersen stood on his head in the third, and Price was weak.

My issue with Montreal is this. They got bigger, and slower (not much but enough), Bergevin traded, young smaller skill, so they could be more physical in the post season. At this time that way of thinking is very short sided. It is all good to beef up a bit for a cup run, but Bergevin went too far. Watching the Habs play, they are not short of intensity, they are trying real hard out there, but they cannot score. This was an issue in preseason, and last year. It is not a new problem. I think Bergevin really messed this team up bad. Reminds me of Ferguson with Toronto, he screwed them so bad it took this long to recover (in part to a couple bad moves by Burke/Nonis), though one can argue Burke/Nonis did some good things. Drafting Kadri, Nylander, Rielly...not bad. In any case, it is a bit early to panic and say rebuild (retool), however you cannot wait too long, or you wont catch up (the league is too good). I think within the next week if nothing changes, Montreal has steps to take. The first one is do they fire Bergevin now? If they do it normally takes some time for a new GM to do anything (trade wise etc). If they do not fire him, then I guess that means it is his last chance at redemption to make the right move. It is a hard place to be in. The leafs were in this spot not long ago, and it took 4 or 5 years to get here. Either way you look at it, if something does not change soon something has to give.

You said retool, my question is how do you retool with out a rebuild, whether it is a full tear down, a mini one? Look at Vancouver, it took a couple years for them to admit that a couple small moves wouldnt cut it. Now they have Horvat, Boeser, Markstrom, to name a couple that look really good, but it is a rebuild there no question. Is the best thing to let Montreal stay pat, and finish near the bottom, and possibly get Dahlin? Problem there is he is a defenseman. Unless he is Karlsson good, that wont fix the goal scoring. Really tough call here. But again what do you think they do?

 

[Voodoo Child]

Webs is a 6'4 230 lbs monster who has a big shot and scares the hell out of forwards who go up against him, but...

His age is not ideal. We're already seeing him slow down. He slows down, and teams adapt, adapt by hustling him at the point and getting in his face and taking away his shot...defensively he's still great but his numbers are only gonna go down from here.

The money is also an obvious issue, at that cap for 7 more years, on a deal that's essentially buyout proof, means we say bye to Marner or Nylander in another deal.

I empathize with Montreal but pass; want nothing to do with Weber.