Sharks roster discussion

[Pinkfloyd]

No, that response is showing you how you're acting. This will be my last response to this because you're clearly not getting what I'm saying. I'm saying Roy at most would be a minor chip in getting someone useful or completely wasted on a 2-3 line tweener. Why would you waste his potential on a third liner? That's just terrible asset management.

It depends on who the player is. I think Roy and a 1st can be the basis for a trade for someone like Kane as a rental. That's a big move to make for a team that could be seen as taking one last shot at it. It can also be the basis of a trade for a 2nd or 3rd line level player with a contract that goes beyond the end of this season. Roy's potential is not exactly stellar. It's 2nd pairing level at best and the right side is pretty well covered for the next bit so long as Burns, Braun, and Heed are all under contract here. And if you were trying to show I was acting you did a pretty bad job at it because my arguments have been on point for the discussion while yours go completely off the rails making straw men for some point that's not relevant to the topic.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

It depends on who the player is. I think Roy and a 1st can be the basis for a trade for someone like Kane as a rental. That's a big move to make for a team that could be seen as taking one last shot at it. It can also be the basis of a trade for a 2nd or 3rd line level player with a contract that goes beyond the end of this season. Roy's potential is not exactly stellar. It's 2nd pairing level at best and the right side is pretty well covered for the next bit so long as Burns, Braun, and Heed are all under contract here. And if you were trying to show I was acting you did a pretty bad job at it because my arguments have been on point for the discussion while yours go completely off the rails making straw men for some point that's not relevant to the topic.

This team isn't going to get one last chance at the Cup this year. No way, no how...Kane isn't putting us over the top, we're still going to be no match for the top teams in the league in a 7 game series.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This team isn't going to get one last chance at the Cup this year. No way, no how...Kane isn't putting us over the top, we're still going to be no match for the top teams in the league in a 7 game series.

I agree but that's my take. DW's take and pressures may yield a different outcome.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

It depends on who the player is. I think Roy and a 1st can be the basis for a trade for someone like Kane as a rental. That's a big move to make for a team that could be seen as taking one last shot at it. It can also be the basis of a trade for a 2nd or 3rd line level player with a contract that goes beyond the end of this season. Roy's potential is not exactly stellar. It's 2nd pairing level at best and the right side is pretty well covered for the next bit so long as Burns, Braun, and Heed are all under contract here. And if you were trying to show I was acting you did a pretty bad job at it because my arguments have been on point for the discussion while yours go completely off the rails making straw men for some point that's not relevant to the topic.

My points exactly! Evander Kane would be a good add, but why give up by far our prospect with the best top 4 / top line chances for a rental who's just going to make us exit a round later at best?

But yes, please continue thinking that your logic and only your logic is infallible. You are the almighty, omniscient poster on HF. Your opinion on the matter is so much greater than anyone else's that in turn their opinions are invalid.

 

[LA Shark]

My question is who are these "top" teams in the West? Our first 2 playoff matchups could be Vegas and LA. Your telling me we couldn't beat them? To me the only 2 really elite teams are St. Louis and TB. Sure if we were to get lucky and make the finals and TB is there waiting were done, but that's not a reason to not compete.

I'll be honest I don't really know what this team is right now. It's too early and they've been all over the map. Sure they aren't an elite team, but they also aren't as bad as a lot of you think/wish they are.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My points exactly! Evander Kane would be a good add, but why give up by far our prospect with the best top 4 / top line chances for a rental who's just going to make us exit a round later at best?

But yes, please continue thinking that your logic and only your logic is infallible. You are the almighty, omniscient poster on HF. Your opinion on the matter is so much greater than anyone else's that in turn their opinions are invalid.

I personally wouldn't make that trade but it's something that one should be able to see DW doing quite easily at this point. Just because we see the team as an early playoff exit that shouldn't be invested into to that degree doesn't mean that DW will because he's still looking to keep his job and make the boss more money. But this is something I've said the entire time so I don't know why you're having a cow over it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My question is who are these "top" teams in the West? Our first 2 playoff matchups could be Vegas and LA. Your telling me we couldn't beat them? To me the only 2 really elite teams are St. Louis and TB. Sure if we were to get lucky and make the finals and TB is there waiting were done, but that's not a reason to not compete.

I'll be honest I don't really know what this team is right now. It's too early and they've been all over the map. Sure they aren't an elite team, but they also aren't as bad as a lot of you think/wish they are.

In a seven game series, I don't see this Sharks team beating either Vegas or LA.

 

[KirbyDots]

My question is who are these "top" teams in the West? Our first 2 playoff matchups could be Vegas and LA. Your telling me we couldn't beat them? To me the only 2 really elite teams are St. Louis and TB. Sure if we were to get lucky and make the finals and TB is there waiting were done, but that's not a reason to not compete.

I'll be honest I don't really know what this team is right now. It's too early and they've been all over the map. Sure they aren't an elite team, but they also aren't as bad as a lot of you think/wish they are.

I could see this team doing better in the playoffs than most anticipate, with the caveat that they add scoring and the proviso that Burns and the Joes can turn things around. That's a lot of ifs, but in my opinion taking that chance is better than half-assing a tank. I also don't see a tank as being as realistic an option as a lot of people on this board. Our defense is stellar, if they can simply play with more drive and push in the offensive zone, like in the 3rd period last night, then we could have something special again.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

I personally wouldn't make that trade but it's something that one should be able to see DW doing quite easily at this point. Just because we see the team as an early playoff exit that shouldn't be invested into to that degree doesn't mean that DW will because he's still looking to keep his job and make the boss more money. But this is something I've said the entire time so I don't know why you're having a cow over it.

My bad. Sounded like you were advocating for trading him and saying he had a really high value.

 

[PackShark]

I could see this team doing better in the playoffs than most anticipate, with the caveat that they add scoring and the proviso that Burns and the Joes can turn things around. That's a lot of ifs, but in my opinion taking that chance is better than half-assing a tank. I also don't see a tank as being as realistic an option as a lot of people on this board. Our defense is stellar, if they can simply play with more drive and push in the offensive zone, like in the 3rd period last night, then we could have something special again.

Very good point. One thing I think some posters are forgetting is that a lot can change between now and the spring. For example, did anyone think at this time 2 years ago that this team would end up falling just 2 wins shy of winning it all? Heck, we were in 2nd to last in the conference at the beginning of January that season. Last year, we appaeared to be cruising to a division title and battling for home ice advantage throughout the playoffs until the wheels fell off in mid March. Bottom line is a lot can and probably will change before the end of the season.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Very good point. One thing I think some posters are forgetting is that a lot can change between now and the spring. For example, did anyone think at this time 2 years ago that this team would end up falling just 2 wins shy of winning it all? Heck, we were in 2nd to last in the conference at the beginning of January that season. Last year, we appaeared to be cruising to a division title and battling for home ice advantage throughout the playoffs until the wheels fell off in mid March. Bottom line is a lot can and probably will change before the end of the season.

The difference though is that this time two years ago, we had an injured Logan Couture to point to in order to explain the team's inconsistencies. Last year, while the team was cruising they were still showing warts before they fell apart especially up front. They were still a mediocre offensive team when they were healthy.

 

[LA Shark]

In a seven game series, I don't see this Sharks team beating either Vegas or LA.

I meant with an added winger like Kane, and still they might not beat those teams, but they would certainly have a decent chance. Add Kane to our roster and I'll take us over Vegas come playoff time all day.

 

[KirbyDots]

The difference though is that this time two years ago, we had an injured Logan Couture to point to in order to explain the team's inconsistencies. Last year, while the team was cruising they were still showing warts before they fell apart especially up front. They were still a mediocre offensive team when they were healthy.

Well you can also note that this year the Joes are both currently playing through injuries and Burns is shooting at a fantastic 1.9%, oh and a lack a suitable replacement for Marleau. Previously many here thought we needed to add a top 6 in addition to Marleau, losing his scoring puts us in that much of a deeper hole. Donskoi has improved, so have Hertl and Tierney, but we need to add up front. The real question is if the problem can be fixed by adding to the roster or if stylistically our system is too rigid and defensive to allow for the scoring we desperately need. Not holding my breath but hopefully DeBoer can modify the system to allow a more aggressive approach in the offensive end while maintaining the stifling defense, lord knows we need it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I meant with an added winger like Kane, and still they might not beat those teams, but they would certainly have a decent chance. Add Kane to our roster and I'll take us over Vegas come playoff time all day.

If we added a winger like Kane I would give this team at least a competitive chance to get to the conference finals so long as they're not the crossover wild card team but they're not beating the Blues even with Kane. Our playoff chances are pretty much predicated on Thornton returning to form from 2016. If that doesn't happen, it's not going to be in the cards for us imo. However, I do have some optimism that Jumbo will get to that form later in the season. If so, I think Burns will at least start getting some luck to go his way and Pavs may actually be able to contribute better with more open ice.

Well you can also note that this year the Joes are both currently playing through injuries and Burns is shooting at a fantastic 1.9%, oh and a lack a suitable replacement for Marleau. Previously many here thought we needed to add a top 6 in addition to Marleau, losing his scoring puts us in that much of a deeper hole. Donskoi has improved, so have Hertl and Tierney, but we need to add up front. The real question is if the problem can be fixed by adding to the roster or if stylistically our system is too rigid and defensive to allow for the scoring we desperately need. Not holding my breath but hopefully DeBoer can modify the system to allow a more aggressive approach in the offensive end while maintaining the stifling defense, lord knows we need it.

The issue with the playing through injuries thing is that in most cases it doesn't tend to get better when you do it. Having said that, I can see it getting better in Jumbo's case but not in Pavelski's. The Burns shooting percentage is certainly something that will probably resolve itself down the road but some of it is teams adjusting to the Sharks and the Sharks not responding in kind yet. Forwards have to take more responsibility in the attacking zone with Burns on the ice if they ever expect Burns to be the kind of threat he was the first half of last season. I agree with the Marleau thing and the need for a top six in addition to him. Donskoi bouncing back is huge but even with that we're still in a deep hole offensively. The solution is a combination of both system and acquiring talent. However, I don't think it's because the system is too defensive. I think it's too predictable and way too much reliance on point shots to create scoring opportunities. There aren't enough transition opportunities at even strength and the forwards don't take the puck to the net enough. The rim around to the right point can't be the bread and butter play to generate shots, tips, and rebounds.

 

[KirbyDots]

If we added a winger like Kane I would give this team at least a competitive chance to get to the conference finals so long as they're not the crossover wild card team but they're not beating the Blues even with Kane. Our playoff chances are pretty much predicated on Thornton returning to form from 2016. If that doesn't happen, it's not going to be in the cards for us imo. However, I do have some optimism that Jumbo will get to that form later in the season. If so, I think Burns will at least start getting some luck to go his way and Pavs may actually be able to contribute better with more open ice.



The issue with the playing through injuries thing is that in most cases it doesn't tend to get better when you do it. Having said that, I can see it getting better in Jumbo's case but not in Pavelski's. The Burns shooting percentage is certainly something that will probably resolve itself down the road but some of it is teams adjusting to the Sharks and the Sharks not responding in kind yet. Forwards have to take more responsibility in the attacking zone with Burns on the ice if they ever expect Burns to be the kind of threat he was the first half of last season. I agree with the Marleau thing and the need for a top six in addition to him. Donskoi bouncing back is huge but even with that we're still in a deep hole offensively. The solution is a combination of both system and acquiring talent. However, I don't think it's because the system is too defensive. I think it's too predictable and way too much reliance on point shots to create scoring opportunities. There aren't enough transition opportunities at even strength and the forwards don't take the puck to the net enough. The rim around to the right point can't be the bread and butter play to generate shots, tips, and rebounds.

I agree with most of this. In my opinion Pavs has started to rebound as well, though not to the night and day level of Jumbo. The system is predictable, that much is obvious. We need more creativity in the offensive zone and the players need to be given more of an opening to so. They need to drive the net more, more plays on the rush and in the slot. The Sharks take far too many shots from the outside and from bad angles. Jumbo's newfound openness to shoot is encouraging but Burns needs to adjust his game and become varied. Too many one timers from the point without moving laterally. Pavs also needs to shoot more, way too many tip attempts.

 

[PackShark]

The difference though is that this time two years ago, we had an injured Logan Couture to point to in order to explain the team's inconsistencies. Last year, while the team was cruising they were still showing warts before they fell apart especially up front. They were still a mediocre offensive team when they were healthy.

I don’t disagree. We definitely were missing something offensively most of last year.As for 2 years ago, I’m not saying this year’s team is anywhere close. My point was more that a lot can change between now and the end of the year across the league.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t disagree. We definitely were missing something offensively most of last year.As for 2 years ago, I’m not saying this year’s team is anywhere close. My point was more that a lot can change between now and the end of the year across the league.

I get that point but I'm just countering with why there's a difference due to a huge talent missing for an extended period of time whereas this team doesn't have someone like that waiting to return or on the horizon. They'll have to do it themselves and that doesn't happen very often or they'll have to get someone that's a superstar caliber player right now. Both scenarios are long odds.

 

[Hinterland]

So DeBoer puts Karlsson right back with the Joe's. When will that fool get removed? It's getting ridiculous. Over and over again this idiot plays his two favourite 4th liners in the top6. It's a miracle Labanc gets another chance with Couture. Let's see how long it lasts. Ward probably gonna take his spot after the 1st mistake.
I'm so so sick of DeBoer and his bs.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

So DeBoer puts Karlsson right back with the Joe's. When will that fool get removed? It's getting ridiculous. Over and over again this idiot plays his two favourite 4th liners in the top6. It's a miracle Labanc gets another chance with Couture. Let's see how long it lasts. Ward probably gonna take his spot after the 1st mistake.
I'm so so sick of DeBoer and his bs.

The fact that the sharks are sorely lacking top 6 wingers isn’t Deboers fault. Whom exactly has earned a spot on Thornton’s wing over Karlsson? All in all he’s done a decent job with the roster he’s been given.
When Lebanc, Meier, or anyone else produces enough to earn a higher spot they will get it.

 

[Mattb124]

So DeBoer puts Karlsson right back with the Joe's. When will that fool get removed? It's getting ridiculous. Over and over again this idiot plays his two favourite 4th liners in the top6. It's a miracle Labanc gets another chance with Couture. Let's see how long it lasts. Ward probably gonna take his spot after the 1st mistake.
I'm so so sick of DeBoer and his bs.

If Karlsson continues to forecheck well and score goals, it could last a while.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The fact that the sharks are sorely lacking top 6 wingers isn’t Deboers fault. Whom exactly has earned a spot on Thornton’s wing over Karlsson? All in all he’s done a decent job with the roster he’s been given.
When Lebanc, Meier, or anyone else produces enough to earn a higher spot they will get it.

Kevin LaBanc has more points and significantly better possession numbers. Timo Meier doesn't have quite as many points but has significantly better possession numbers and I would be curious to see his numbers with the Joes and compare those to Karlsson's with the Joes.

I'm gonna say it for the last time in this thread because I've already said it plenty: Kevin LaBanc and Timo Meier are 21 year old sophomores who haven't quite found their scoring touch in the NHL, but when playing with the Joes, they have both had flashes of looking like legitimate top-6 forwards that can score around 50 points. There have been times where I've said that Meier or LaBanc look like the best player on the Joe line. I have literally never once felt that way about Melker Karlsson, who has played way more games with those two.


Karlsson's goal was definitely a good one, but how much of that was due to Thornton's spinorama? All of it. Thornton wasn't playing like that for the majority of the time he spent with LaBanc and Meier but you know who ultimately got him going? You know who got him to start looking like the Joe of old? Timo Meier. Timo Meier was winning loose puck battles, Timo Meier was knocking defenders off the puck with butt checks, and Timo Meier was getting into scoring areas for Joe. He reminds me of Hertl with the Joes in 2016, except Hertl was scoring a lot more because he had found his scoring touch a little better. Meier and LaBanc have a lot more untapped potential and look a lot better with the Joes than Karlsson.

 

[Mattb124]

If either Meier or Lebanc had consistently translated all those other aspects of their game into that line actually scoring goals, one of them would still be in that slot. They haven't, and hence aren't. With the current injury situation, I have no issue with having Karlsson in that slot over Meier or Lebanc.

 

[LA Shark]

I can live with Karlsson on the top line while Donskoi is out. I like Labanc on that 2nd line and Timo makes the 3rd line dangerous with Tierney. Once Donskoi is back hell slot into the top 6 with Labanc and Karlsson can go to the 3rd line with Tierney and Timo.

 

[Mattb124]

I can live with Karlsson on the top line while Donskoi is out. I like Labanc on that 2nd line and Timo makes the 3rd line dangerous with Tierney. Once Donskoi is back hell slot into the top 6 with Labanc and Karlsson can go to the 3rd line with Tierney and Timo.

Lebanc showed some chemistry with Couture last night. I'd personally like to give that some time to see what develops.

 

[Lebanezer]

You think the Sharks should ask about Mike Hoffman from the Senators?