Pre-Game Talk: Sharks on Friday/@Montreal Saturday

[Al14]

Exactly.

I think guys like Matthews and Nylander 'play down' to their linemates. If they have a linemate that is working their tail off, they will too. If they have a linemate that is floating around a bit, they will too.

Hopefully this goes away with time, when they get more experienced.

I think it's likely the other way around. If the billion dollar player plays lazy ass hockey, why should the ten dollar player exert himself?

 

[18leafsfan18]

I think it's likely the other way around. If the billion dollar player plays lazy ass hockey, why should the ten dollar player exert himself?

To be given more ice time... Can't see a fringe player "playing lazy" just because someone else is.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it's slightly better actually, I don't have the numbers in front of me but if we had that record over a season people would be ecstatic.

If you mean this season then the sample size is too small, it's probably too small even over the course of a full season come to think of it. And no matter how big the sample size, the only meaningful comparison is one we're not able to make anyway - what would our record be if the goalies were flipped? We can't know that right?

As far as I can tell, there is simply no way to know for sure what would be best so it's all speculation. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion though - starting Andersen against our divisional rival MTL Saturday night is the way to go easily. And same goes for the Boston game earlier this week. And I don't follow other teams closely but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that that's the way most other NHL coaches do things, perhaps someone more knowledgeable will chime in here.

 

[7even]

Its been one of the highest the past couple seasons because we've been a top team the past couple seasons. It would still be high regardless of who we played in net.

Garrett Sparks? Michael Hutchinson?

Press x to doubt

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

If you mean this season then the sample size is too small, it's probably too small even over the course of a full season come to think of it. And no matter how big the sample size, the only meaningful comparison is one we're not able to make anyway - what would our record be if the goalies were flipped? We can't know that right?

As far as I can tell, there is simply no way to know for sure what would be best so it's all speculation. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion though - starting Andersen against our divisional rival MTL Saturday night is the way to go easily. And same goes for the Boston game earlier this week. And I don't follow other teams closely but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that that's the way most other NHL coaches do things, perhaps someone more knowledgeable will chime in here.

I think a majority of the teams generally follow our approach unless they have a good backup. Boston for example can play either with minimal impact, we don't have that luxury.

 

[Al14]

To be given more ice time... Can't see a fringe player "playing lazy" just because someone else is.

I saw it a lot with some of the players I coached. I even had a player admit to me that they were dogging it because our super star player took the game off.

Now, mind you, it was in minor hockey, however, I see a lot of the same MO happening at the NHL level that I saw in minor hockey. JMHO.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think a majority of the teams generally follow our approach unless they have a good backup. Boston for example can play either with minimal impact, we don't have that luxury.

If teams have a good backup then it doesn't matter so much. When the #1 goalie >>> #2 goalie, that's when it becomes an issue. I believe that's the way it is for most teams but Boston is one of the very few where that gap isn't there so they're irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I saw it a lot with some of the players I coached. I even had a player admit to me that they were dogging it because our super star player took the game off.

Now, mind you, it was in minor hockey, however, I see a lot of the same MO happening at the NHL level that I saw in minor hockey. JMHO.

I get where your opinion comes from and I think that for sure happens in minor hockey.

But in the NHL this is a player's job. If he doggs it he could be out of a job (or be paid significantly less going forward).

Again, don't want to disprove your opinion, but to me unless it's a vet that is on the back end of his career anyway I would assume it doesn't happen that often.

 

[rumman]

His best before date may have come and gone but he might not be fully expired yet. Many of the so called experts think the players are the problem.

if Babcock isn't the right coach, WTF is Dubas waiting for??????

 

[rumman]

I'll take it one step further. If the 11M kids aren't better....it's because they CANT be better! Show us you can be better or else you are NOT better.

I'm on the "you wanted to be paid like elite franchise players" train now.... it's now on YOU to carry THAT share of the responsbility for elevating the team and besting the other team's top lines REGULARLY.

Failure to do that makes you a FAILURE.

it's one thing to school your GM and get a contract that's far too generous, but it's a completely different animal living up to said contract.

 

[rumman]

Exactly, they did not buy the "we can surround you with better supporting players if you take less" argument so now go out and do it yourselves. If they continue playing like they have, the fans will turn on them, not the players making the minimum. Personally I would look to move one of Willie or Marner to send a message to the 3.

Marner or Nylander+ for Pesce, Roy, Gauthier.

 

[Madap]

Garrett Sparks? Michael Hutchinson?

Press x to doubt

I'm not saying every game. But pick and choose. Play them against opponents who are far weaker.

Its not about the first game winning percentage only. It should be the collective winning percentage of both back to backs, and I'm sure ours could be much better than it is.

 

[18leafsfan18]

if Babcock isn't the right coach, WTF is Dubas waiting for??????

Bit early to throw him overboard IMO, but I understand where you are coming from.

 

[rumman]

I saw it a lot with some of the players I coached. I even had a player admit to me that they were dogging it because our super star player took the game off.

Now, mind you, it was in minor hockey, however, I see a lot of the same MO happening at the NHL level that I saw in minor hockey. JMHO.

bad effort is contagious, especially if it's being done by the stars. One bad apple..............

 

[MattySnipes]

Hope he's ok. Rielly missing at practise fyi.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think it's likely the other way around. If the billion dollar player plays lazy ass hockey, why should the ten dollar player exert himself?

Totally correct. The big money boys asked for the big dollars, it's up to them to lead and set an example.

 

[7even]

I'm not saying every game. But pick and choose. Play them against opponents who are far weaker.

Its not about the first game winning percentage only. It should be the collective winning percentage of both back to backs, and I'm sure ours could be much better than it is.

I do believe the evidence is that going all in on the first 2 points (winning % = ~80%) and going for the coin flip on the second game (not below ~40%) statistically gives the most amount of points averaged over an entire season.

Y'all really think the Leafs blew tens of millions on an analytics department to misinform Mr. Babcock over something that's so easily broken down?

 

[mclaren55]

Hope he's ok. Rielly missing at practise fyi.

When it rains it pours...

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I feel like something that hasnt really been mentioned is that perhaps Rielly's struggles can be partly attributed to the departure of Hainsey who was very defensively inclined.

Hainsey acted as a defensive blanket for Rielly while this year Ceci jumps into the play way more often than Hainsey so Rielly cant play the same way. It will likely take time to adjust and result in less assists as not all the play will flow through Rielly at the backend.

Just a random thought

 

[Burnie97]

And rielly will be in too

 

[rumman]

I feel like something that hasnt really been mentioned is that perhaps Rielly's struggles can be partly attributed to the departure of Hainsey who was very defensively inclined.

Hainsey acted as a defensive blanket for Rielly while this year Ceci jumps into the play way more often than Hainsey so Rielly cant play the same way. It will likely take time to adjust and result in less assist as not all the play will flow through Rielly at the backend.

Just a random thought

I knew Hainsey was going to be missed this season, he was imo a good vet that played good defensive D, if Dubas acquired a younger version of Hainsey and moved Hainsey down the line up the D wouldn't be struggling right now, but instead Dubas went for move offense, no surprise to me...........

 

[ACC1224]

And rielly will be in too

Yep, takes time for all the new faces to become a team

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Sharks starting Dell against the Habs. Ugh!

 

[Madap]

I do believe the evidence is that going all in on the first 2 points (winning % = ~80%) and going for the coin flip on the second game (not below ~40%) statistically gives the most amount of points averaged over an entire season.

Y'all really think the Leafs blew tens of millions on an analytics department to misinform Mr. Babcock over something that's so easily broken down?

Yeah, but here's the thing: They use stats averaged from all teams in the league. Good, average, terrible teams. Older teams. Teams that play a different style than us. It's useful info I'm sure, but that's not our team.

We don't have any stats on what works best for us because Babcock will never try anything different.

 

[Al14]

I get where your opinion comes from and I think that for sure happens in minor hockey.

But in the NHL this is a player's job. If he doggs it he could be out of a job (or be paid significantly less going forward).

Again, don't want to disprove your opinion, but to me unless it's a vet that is on the back end of his career anyway I would assume it doesn't happen that often.

Guaranteed, long term contracts! If only a player could be FIRED after being awarded a large sum of money over several years and doesn't live up to it. No need to prove anything until you're in your final year. This has gone on with some NHL players for far too long.