Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote
- Thread starter HamiltonNHL
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HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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Shanahan failed to create a culture where players wanted to play.
All of the big 4 were overpaid to stay.
Whether Marner got mad at Babcock or not, you just don't sign Marner or anyone for that money as it's money down the tubes.
Shanny must go.
All of the big 4 were overpaid to stay.
Whether Marner got mad at Babcock or not, you just don't sign Marner or anyone for that money as it's money down the tubes.
Shanny must go.
Stephen
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They’ve switched gears on that pretty much. I don’t think they’re hyping up the next crop and building celebrities out of them.
HolyCrap
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I don’t disagree. Especially the high end expensive ones. Money can be spent better elsewhere.
hotpaws
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i agree and you don't pay that much for a ufa when you're not filling a glaring need
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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hamzarocks
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Its closer to 5M at the term which they are at
Nylander is should have gotten 7 million at 8 years
Marner should have gotten 9.25 at 8 years
Tavares should have gotten 10 at 7 years
Matthews should have gotten 11M at 8 years
caphit wise it's maybe 2-2.5M but we seriously lowered our contention window and ability to integrate potential prospects like (amirov, Robertson, sandin, lilijgren, niemela, hirvonen, hallinder, abramov etc.) onto the team at a steady rate.
The first four won't be huge impact players next year and will be at that level in 2022-2023 at best. The next 4 we are looking closer to 2024 before they are valuable NHL players
Dubas giving less than full-term contracts at above UFA rates put huge pressure on him to obtain results quickly. He is selling and will continue to sell young assets this upcoming season to try and obtain some results as the players have failed to deliver 3 years after he came and he has only 3 years at best (if we either win a round at least or MLSE blindly gives him that time) until we are on the clock and in for a world of pain with Nylander + Matthews becoming UFA's.
Dubas should not have paid Matthews like he was a top 3 player in the world during his contract when he still 2 years after the fact isn't at that level.
Marner shouldn't have been paid as a generational game-breaking winger
Nylander should not have gotten 7M after 2 months of throwing away his season.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
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The biggest disappointment about those 3 RFA contracts is that they aren't even fair market values, let alone discounts...they are significant overpayments.
rumman
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NHLPA man of the year once again........Kyle Dubas........
rumman
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Bruins are masters at "fish or cut bait" on players. If your a Diva, your gone..........
You don't hand out the second highest cap hit in the entire league (at the time) for player that will be on the second line.
Seems quite obvious.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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Scoring chance generating plays in Tavares first year as a leaf:
1) McDavid
2) Crosby
3) Matthews
12) Tavares
22) Nylander
26) Marner
Tavares is fine... Marner is the problem. The right move, in hindsight of course, was to trade Marner for a boatload of assets. That year Marner had 94 point he was 26 in scoring chance generating plays, the same year Aho was 12th. Aho got 8.454 while Marner got 10.893.
Sure Aho produced around 10 points less than Marner but I've pointed it out millions of times Carolina scored like 40 goals less than Toronto and allowed like the same amount less.
Tavares "actually" turned down more money to play in Toronto... Marners agent said he received one offersheet and was in talks with a different team about a contract too. Why wasn't it released that Marner took less to stay in Toronto? Because he didn't... nobody offered him more than his own GM did.
I'd like Toronto to take the Boston route... trade skill and build a culture unfortunately it looks like that ship may have passed and wed have to start all over or else trade Nylander and Marner.
Nylander ... oh yea can you believe he released to the media that Dubas promised him he wouldn't trade him. Yet another example of Dubas being disrespected and walked on by the young guys.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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Taveras
When they signed him before dealing with Mathews and Marner it screwd up everything.
JT was a good player for around 9 mil.
I really think they jumped the gun on the process.
Mathews and Marner both said well if JT is worth we are just as good .
They had dubas under the gun and he gave the farm to both Mathews and Marner.
Obviously money is more important to Mathews and Marner than building a team .
Again what was marleau teaching this young players how to be gready , I never thought he was that great of a player or a leader .
And to boot we had to give up a 1st to get rid of him .
What a stupid organization.
baton elevated
One Man Gang
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Ive enjoyed the interviews where Marner talks about how great and smart of a gm Dubas is.... Marners tone is like he is Dubas' boss. Guess he's trying to make Dubas feel better about his agent taking advantage of him.
613Leafer
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You also have to keep in mind what he had accomplished by the time he signed his contract - zero top 10 finishes in points by age 21. McDavid got his contract after winning the Hart and Art Ross as a teenager.
At 5 years? Matthews should be at most 9.5M, and that's generously interpreting his stats in a favourable light. It's higher than the Kane/Toews contracts post-ELC (after accounting for cap growth) and about equal to Stamkos who won a Rocket Richard and had back-to-back top 5 finishes in points during his ELC.
At 8 years, I still don't know if he gets to 11.6M. McDavid was head and shoulders and then some above Matthews at the same age and comparing ELC performances.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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Matthews is top 5 in the league... maybe as good as #2. Look at his stats... he scores no matter who his linemates are. When Marner was with Hyman and Tavares and Nylander was holding out... Matthews still was on a 94 point pace. He's 6'2 and plays center... oh and the best goal scorer in the entire NHL. You pay him the 11.6 no questions asked. Tavares... you do any day of the week at 11 million... he was a UFA, only 27, a #1 center and very coachable.
Marner and Nylander you put them in there place.... and trade them if need be. Both are wingers and would have gotten top assets in return and could have been someone else's headache. Instead Nylander gets a verbal "I won't trade you as long as I'm gm" and Marner gets overpaid and an assistant captain letter slapped on his chest for his troubles.
Damn Dubas.... damn.
Trapper
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Signing Tavares was fine.
Making Matthews the franchise guy would have been fine if it was for 8 years.He might just be someone else’s franchise guy in 3 years a la JT.
You don’t sign 2 wingers for almost 20 million after that.
2 5/6 million wingers are fine.
Nylander 6.9 and a 6 mil guy who can drive the net, get dirty and score some goals.
And the money for an entire 3rd line that can go the same.
Making Matthews the franchise guy would have been fine if it was for 8 years.He might just be someone else’s franchise guy in 3 years a la JT.
You don’t sign 2 wingers for almost 20 million after that.
2 5/6 million wingers are fine.
Nylander 6.9 and a 6 mil guy who can drive the net, get dirty and score some goals.
And the money for an entire 3rd line that can go the same.
At the timof the signing he had been injured 2 seasons in a row .
All iam saying is that management got all giddy and jumped the gun by signing Taveras.
Hell we didn't even have a good defence at that time .
Now we are stuck with JT we are a mediocre team that hasn't won a round in the playoffs and will have to trade one of our young stars to build a team .
Again great Shanahan.
Taveras was the wrong signing at the time period.
Kurtz
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In terms of cap hits:
- JT signed for less here than what SJ and NYI offered - so no overpayment there.
- Matthews had all the leverage as he was going to get big RFA offers from Arizona and other American teams. Still maybe a slight overpayment given what Eichel and McDavid got.
- Marner signed at the same time as Rantanen, for $1.5 more. Clear overpayment.
- Willy signed a fair deal but Dubas set a bad precedent for making him whole with the bonus structure - ensuring that Willy didn't lose any money for sitting out. That was weak.
Overall, maybe $3 mil overpayment for the core 4, in my opinion.
- JT signed for less here than what SJ and NYI offered - so no overpayment there.
- Matthews had all the leverage as he was going to get big RFA offers from Arizona and other American teams. Still maybe a slight overpayment given what Eichel and McDavid got.
- Marner signed at the same time as Rantanen, for $1.5 more. Clear overpayment.
- Willy signed a fair deal but Dubas set a bad precedent for making him whole with the bonus structure - ensuring that Willy didn't lose any money for sitting out. That was weak.
Overall, maybe $3 mil overpayment for the core 4, in my opinion.
Yup 47 goal 88 point 28 year old center for free (but cap space) is the wrong move.
