Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[HamiltonNHL]

Which franchise D and goalie did we miss out on because of JT?

we'll never know as we dont have the cap space to look for trades.

 

[The Apologist]

we'll never know as we dont have the cap space to look for trades.

Sure we will. There must be someone you have in mind. We got Brodie AND Muzz so we did work on the D. We traded for Barrie before that.
As for goalies, I'm sure there's a goalie you have in mind that we clearly didn't sign because of Tavares' contract.

 

[egd27]

All iam saying is that management got all giddy and jumped the gun by signing Taveras.

all roads lead us back to this point

 

[Racer88]

Sure we will. There must be someone you have in mind. We got Brodie AND Muzz so we did work on the D. We traded for Barrie before that.
As for goalies, I'm sure there's a goalie you have in mind that we clearly didn't sign because of Tavares' contract.

We are just fans not GM’s so we have no way of knowing what Goalie might or might not have been available. Trying to win an argument by pressing the poster to make blind speculation on name is kind of a straw man argument.
As far as getting Brodie and Muzzin, they are ok but nothing like what you need to win a cup.
I would also argue that getting Brodie and Muzzin came at a cost of adding even more lower cost players in other positions…….because of the Tavares contract especially since Tavares has added nothing in the way of playoff success

 

[egd27]

JT signed for less here than what SJ and NYI offered - so no overpayment there.

He would have been the #1C in SJ or NYI. Dubas paid $11M for a player to fill the #2C role........so yes, overpayment there

 

[hotpaws]

Which franchise D and goalie did we miss out on because of JT?

it would have been nice to have been able to offer Petro a decent contract which was prevented by signing JT

 

[egd27]

There is no world where Tavares is worth 11 million other then Dubbie world

If there is no Matthews, then sure $11M is the cost of a UFA #1C. We already had a #1C that we were going to have to pay about that amount for in a year's time.

 

[The Apologist]

it would have been nice to have been able to offer Petro a decent contract which was prevented by signing JT

How so?
There are a million and one ways Petro could have been signed had he wants to come here and had Dubas wanted him enough.

Do you have anything backing up the statement that JTs contract is the reason he's not here?

 

[The Apologist]

We are just fans not GM’s so we have no way of knowing what Goalie might or might not have been available. Trying to win an argument by pressing the poster to make blind speculation on name is kind of a straw man argument.
As far as getting Brodie and Muzzin, they are ok but nothing like what you need to win a cup.
I would also argue that getting Brodie and Muzzin came at a cost of adding even more lower cost players in other positions…….because of the Tavares contract especially since Tavares has added nothing in the way of playoff success

You're right, we're just fans. Not GMs. And we're discussing these situations as if we have any insight whatsoever into how these things run. Two things however are very clearly silly in this discussion.
1) that anybody honestly says no thank you to John Tavares knocking at your door.
2) that anybody here can honestly state with any reasonable argument that the JT contract is the reason we haven't signed anyone else.

It's not shocking, just silly. It's also right in line with the amazing scapegoating this community is capable of.

 

[The Apologist]

all roads lead us back to this point

Except they don't, except in 'OMG we lost again' Leaf Land where the sky is clearly falling and the free agent superstar center who chose to come here is clearly an issue.

 

[hotpaws]

In terms of cap hits:

- JT signed for less here than what SJ and NYI offered - so no overpayment there.

and it was reported Clarkson signed for less here as well so i guess he wasn't overpaid either and there's always players saying they took less or team xy were rumored to have offered more but few if any of these rumors are ever confirmed

also at the end of the day does it really matter if they were offered more ? it's not like the players actual on ice value improves and it didn't make me feel any better watching Clarkson and thinking ''oh geez he sucks ass but at least he came here for less money'' lol

 

[hotpaws]

How so?
There are a million and one ways Petro could have been signed had he wants to come here and had Dubas wanted him enough.

Do you have anything backing up the statement that JTs contract is the reason he's not here?

yup your right , why do 4 players at 40m when we could do 5 at 50m

also Dubie said he did speak to his people but it didn't go anywhere due to our cap situation

 

[hotpaws]

Except they don't, except in 'OMG we lost again' Leaf Land where the sky is clearly falling and the free agent superstar center who chose to come here is clearly an issue.

f***ing right , why would the sky be falling when we got knocked out by two mediocre teams the last 2 playoffs with our superstar ufa center who was brought in to help us win a cup

and sure JT and Muzzin are getting older and regressing but who gives a damn about that

 

[PromisedLand]

What about Wilson's... San Jose reportedly was willing to offer something like 14 million oer.

Then you let it go. They also paid EK65 look whats happening with that....

I don't understand what the hell is up witht he board. just because other team is messing it up we should too? let them screw up their cap structure and chances of winning. THere was no need for us to do it.

When they signed Tavares we needed defensive help not offensive help. I was against Tavares signing but all the fanboys were at me at the time. Now the most of the same people are calling tavares' contract out

 

[Cor]

Mitch by $1.5, Willy 500k, AM 500k-1mil I think. $3m net. Definitely could have used that $3m right about now - no question.

I'll be fair with JT - whole board was celebrating the signing so I can't use hindsight to fault Dubas on it. But there was contemporaneous consensus on rfas being overpaid, so that blame is well earned.

Nylander is not overpaid. Neither is Matthews.

Marner? By a solid 3M or more

 

[Cor]

I said when Marner signed his deal he wasn’t finishing it with the Leafs. That was pre-COVID. Now Im sure that end comes sooner.

He won’t be a Leaf 15 months or less from now.

 

[Marshy]

He's outta touch, we're outta time ...

Hall and Oates have their fingerprints all over this team.

 

[HellasLEAF]

For me it's Marner and JT that are overpaid. JT by 2-3. Marner by about 3.

 

[OptimusReim]

The kids took this management team to the woodshed and squeezed us for every penny, for all the talk about it being an honour to wear the Maple Leaf jersey, they sure don't act that way when it counts, on or off the ice.

 

[hfman]

I don't think the guys really care about each other at all, just look at how they are playing on the ice. It's all "me, me, me". These guys just don't have "it". You can't teach "it". You have to be born with "it". The team is becoming thinner and thinner right infront of their eyes because of the contracts they took.

these guys turned on the fans, and they turned on each other

they don't like the toronto media, they don't like the way this franchise operates, and they don't like playing for this city. and they showed us all of this starting with game 5 vs. montreal

in game 5, they did a complete 180 and they intentionally stopped playing. and that intentional action was proven by the lack of effort. I can believe a team lost the series in an honest fashion if they continued to compete in games 5, 6 and 7, but they did NOT continue to compete in those games. Intead, they rolled over for whatever reason they had in their heads. But they did it on purpose to "stick it" to someone - maybe the media, maybe management, maybe the fans.

That's why yet again, this franchise needs to ship out these overpaid sissy crybaby wimp kiddie millionaires and get some real men who want to win, not just extract every dollar they can out of the team.

Those 3 "core" guys that collapsed are never going to gel together and win anything. That's life. These spoiled babies don't mesh and that's it. Move on.

But it's true that the team has a rookie president, a rookie gm and a rookie coach lol. This situation is actually a lot worse that we were giving credit for

 

[Antropovsky]

Then you let it go. They also paid EK65 look whats happening with that....

I don't understand what the hell is up witht he board. just because other team is messing it up we should too? let them screw up their cap structure and chances of winning. THere was no need for us to do it.

When they signed Tavares we needed defensive help not offensive help. I was against Tavares signing but all the fanboys were at me at the time. Now the most of the same people are calling tavares' contract out

Haha what's wrong with this board?

28 year old franchise center asking for what he's worth and only for 7 years and your suggesting pass?

Its easy to look now - 3 years later - and say it hasn't worked out as hoped... but not because of Tavares, more because of Dubas and Shanahan and very bad management decisions.

There isn't a gm in the league that would've passed on John Tavares at 7 years 11 million per year (so long as they could fit him in).

 

[Knies iT]

it would have been nice to have been able to offer Petro a decent contract which was prevented by signing JT

It would have been nice to hand a 31 year old a 7 year deal? Christ sakes.

 

[hotpaws]

It would have been nice to hand a 31 year old a 7 year deal? Christ sakes.

i guess handing a 28 yr old center who skates like shit 11m for 7 yrs is much better

 

[hamzarocks]

Nylander is not overpaid. Neither is Matthews.

Marner? By a solid 3M or more

Matthews is still overpaid. I need to see him dominate the league outside of the North. He needs to be top 5 in hart/Lindsay yearly for that gross deal to be worth it.

1st season he fell short and underperformed, this year he had a huge year and was worth it.

If we are going back to the time of their signings

Marner at 8 years was worth 9.16M(gave the dude his jersey number) while at 6 years should have gotten 8M

Matthews at 8 years should have gotten 11M. At 5 years should have gotten 9M

Nylander at 8 years should have gotten 6.5M, while at 6 should have gotten 5.75M

We reversed the trend of full length deals with fair to slightly high but easily liveable up to deals

None of our guys were worth their cap hits at the time of signing and it took Nylander 3 contract years to be basically worth it, Matthews 2, with him having to be this dominant on a going-forward basis , and Marner still isn't there and probably wont ever be.

 

[centipede2233]

The main issue being matthews is an American kid who would love to play close to home ASAP is the length of the contract. If he was at 7/8 yrs it would be easier to swallow.