Sens Tank Nation Part 1- The Fruit of Futility

[Ivan13]

Two different animals.

Care to do a breakdown?

 

[henchman21]

Gut feeling... Brady ends up the Landy sort of player out of this draft. Criminally underappreciated and people always expect more because of their draft position... but when you look back at the draft, they still end up as one of the best players in the draft.

People here and elsewhere give Landy a ton of crap for 'only' being a 20-25g 35-40a, 2 way winger... without realizing how good of player that really is. Landy has games played over many players in his draft year, but to this point, he is still #1 in points and #2 in goals for the whole class. In both categories, provided he stays reasonably healthy, it is unlikely he drops out of the top 5 in either. While providing that offense, Landy is a very good 2 way wing and a big time leader on the club. If you could guarantee that to any GM in a top 3 pick, they would jump on it in a heartbeat.

 

[S E P H]

I just want to say that Jack Hughes is posting the highest PPG ever in the USNTDP at 1.933. The second closest is Phil Kessel who is at 1.671 in 73 games while Jack is currently at 60 games. There are rumours he's going to stay in the USNTDP for another season and if he plays another 60 games at the same pace (which is possible due to maturity, stronger body, etc.), he would finish with 232 points which would absolutely destroy Keller who leads the record with 189 points.

 

[UncleRisto]

I just want to say that Jack Hughes is posting the highest PPG ever in the USNTDP at 1.933. The second closest is Phil Kessel who is at 1.671 in 73 games while Jack is currently at 60 games. There are rumours he's going to stay in the USNTDP for another season and if he plays another 60 games at the same pace (which is possible due to maturity, stronger body, etc.), he would finish with 232 points which would absolutely destroy Keller who leads the record with 189 points.

But he's 5'10"!

 

[El Travo]

But he's 5'10"!

Only 5'10"?

 

[Hasbro]

But he's 5'10"!

 

[henchman21]

But he's 5'10"!

More like 5'9"

 

[UncleRisto]

More like 5'9"

Figures.

 

[missionAvs]

Only 5'10"?

Holy shit this was great haha. Well done.

 

[Eltuna]

Signing Karlsson is going to be quite difficult unless they lose a lot of salary in other places. With Kane’s new contract, getting either Duchene or Stone to sign for less than 8 seems unlikely. It’s been speculated that Melnyk has an internal cap of 68 million but let’s pretend he stays at the 70 million that he did this year. If Duchene and Stone sign for a combined 16, Karlsson gets 11, and Ceci gets a raise to 5, suddenly you have 32 million right there. Add in Ryan’s 7.5, and Gaboriks 4.875, and that’s a total of 44.375 million (63% of their cap) in just 6 players, two of which (arguably 3 depending on how you view Ceci) are straight up bad players. That’s without factoring Hoffman in as well, who I think is probably getting traded. I actually understand why Karlssons name is out there, it’s brutal they let themselves get into this position, but looking at the numbers how can they expect to pay him a fair salary and ice a competitive roster. Even if he takes a discount at around 10 million per year, it’s going to be very hard to fit him in.

If Karlsson goes, I’d put money on it being a top 10 1st at the latest, their defence is abysmal without him, and their goaltending situation looks dicey at best.

 

[Avs_19]

What adds additional spice to the fresh words from Alfredsson, of course, is that he remains close with Karlsson.

Two weeks ago, when he was inducted into the International Ice Hockey Federation Hall of Fame in Denmark, Alfredsson was asked about Karlsson’s plans.

“To me, he says that he wants to stay,” he said. “But it’s not all in his hands.”

Going to be a very interesting summer in Ottawa.

 

[Ivan13]

The story behind that article is absolutely ridiculous, apparently, Alfie first ran his mouth and then when he realized what he said he asked for the interview to be off the record. It doesn't work like that Alfie.

 

[Hasbro]

 

[Ivan13]

There are sens fans who believe Matt is better than Stamkos. I don't even. This trade was bad for them the moment it got announced and it just got worst since with the way their season went. Since then:

1. Sens begin a tail-spin which saw them drop right into the basement despite strong play from EK, Stone, and Duchene
2. Bowers looks to be more than they thought they had in him
3. Boucher returns along with his entire staff
4. Dorion and Melnyk address the public at the Capital, completely putting the ball in EK's court in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy if he leaves by saying "We will give him a competitive offer, and that is all we can do", and effectively preparing the public for what looks to be a trade involving EK
5. Alfie's comments which will likely start a public war with Melnyk and possibly put more distance between EK - who is good with Alfie - and the organization
6. Reports about Melnyk wanting to get rid of Ryan even at the expense of ruining the EK return
7. Hoffman possibly being on the market
8. Toxic relationship between the fanbase and the club

 

[22FUTON9]

Duchene was a ppg the last 40 games, karlsson really turned it on the second half as well and they still managed to suck. Unless they get a goalie that's able to stop a beach ball (and I really doubt they'll be able to) there's a really good chance they're going to suck even if Duchene, Karlsson and Stone all score 70 points. That's assuming they all sign as well.

 

[Freudian]

It's a sticky situation.

Dorion already said they won't trade EK at the draft. Senators already should know at draft if EK is staying or not. They are rebuilding so if they are trading EK, wouldn't it be better to do it at the draft where draft picks can be involved.

I guess the argument is that EK might sign an extension with his new team after July 1st and that will increase trade return but a) why would EK want for his new team to weaken themselves and b) why would EK sign an extension with a team he hasn't played a single game for unless it's a slam dunk situation (Tampa)? What if he hates the coach or the players on the team? He's going to get paid either way so he should be in no rush to lock himself up unless it's a situation that's good for him.

 

[NyQuil]

There are sens fans who believe Matt is better than Stamkos. I don't even. This trade was bad for them the moment it got announced and it just got worst since with the way their season went. Since then:

1. Sens begin a tail-spin which saw them drop right into the basement despite strong play from EK, Stone, and Duchene
2. Bowers looks to be more than they thought they had in him
3. Boucher returns along with his entire staff
4. Dorion and Melnyk address the public at the Capital, completely putting the ball in EK's court in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy if he leaves by saying "We will give him a competitive offer, and that is all we can do", and effectively preparing the public for what looks to be a trade involving EK
5. Alfie's comments which will likely start a public war with Melnyk and possibly put more distance between EK - who is good with Alfie - and the organization
6. Reports about Melnyk wanting to get rid of Ryan even at the expense of ruining the EK return
7. Hoffman possibly being on the market
8. Toxic relationship between the fanbase and the club

Bowers is of so little concern it's not even funny.

He hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

Everything else is fair.

 

[Ivan13]

Bowers is of so little concern it's not even funny.

He hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

He has raised his stock, has played admirably well as a freshman and looks to be trending in the right direction, I personally think - of course, I could be wrong - this is not how Sens saw him progressing this season. Furthermore, the team traded for a marginal upgrade at center and in the process gave up what is the equivalent of two 1st round picks.

 

[henchman21]

He has raised his stock, has played admirably well as a freshman and looks to be trending in the right direction, I personally think - of course, I could be wrong - this is not how Sens saw him progressing this season. Furthermore, the team traded for a marginal upgrade at center and in the process gave up what is the equivalent of two 1st round picks.

The Sens were very high on Bowers... they had him in their top 15 going into the draft and fully expected him to be an impact player at Boston. The White/Bowers decision was based more off them thinking they'd need White this past season and upcoming season vs Bowers who was 2-3 seasons away from NHL duty.

 

[stempniaksen]

He has raised his stock, has played admirably well as a freshman and looks to be trending in the right direction, I personally think - of course, I could be wrong - this is not how Sens saw him progressing this season. Furthermore, the team traded for a marginal upgrade at center and in the process gave up what is the equivalent of two 1st round picks.

It's more than a marginal upgrade, and if that pick ends up in the 20's like Dorion thought then the price to upgrade is one most Sens fans would pay.

Obviously in hindsight it's terrible because of the absolute tailspin the whole organization has been in since the team got back from Sweden, but I can't really fault Dorion for making the move at the time (and this is from someone who was critical because I thought Duchene was only a marginal upgrade on Turris.

 

[Ivan13]

You guys have only see the "good Matt", wait until you see the "bad Matt". You shouldn't expect him to be a ppg player he was towards season's end. He is hot and cold, when he's hot he is scorching, when he is cold he is cold as ice, we've seen this song and dance every season here. And no this is not me dumping on a guy who left the team, almost everyone here can vouch I hadn't held his mental game to a high regard, often calling him a mental midget for how he handled himself when things weren't going exactly how he planned.

I think he is better than Turris, but nowhere near the two 1st rounders your GM gave up for him.

 

[Ararana]

You guys have only see the "good Matt", wait until you see the "bad Matt". You shouldn't expect him to be a ppg player he was towards season's end. He is hot and cold, when he's hot he is scorching, when he is cold he is cold as ice, we've seen this song and dance every season here. And no this is not me dumping on a guy who left the team, almost everyone here can vouch I hadn't held his mental game to a high regard, often calling him a mental midget for how he handled himself when things weren't going exactly how he planned.

I think he is better than Turris, but nowhere near the two 1st rounders your GM gave up for him.

To be fair, they saw a good chunk of the "bad Matt" the first 2/3 months after the trade.

 

[stempniaksen]

You guys have only see the "good Matt", wait until you see the "bad Matt". You shouldn't expect him to be a ppg player he was towards season's end. He is hot and cold, when he's hot he is scorching, when he is cold he is cold as ice, we've seen this song and dance every season here. And no this is not me dumping on a guy who left the team, almost everyone here can vouch I hadn't held his mental game to a high regard, often calling him a mental midget for how he handled himself when things weren't going exactly how he planned.

I think he is better than Turris, but nowhere near the two 1st rounders your GM gave up for him.

We saw "bad Matt" too, and I've watched enough Avs games the last few years that I'm well aware of the mental side of his game and how he's his own worst enemy at times. That being said, he's better than Turris and it's not a marginal upgrade at this point. If we're talking strictly points they may be close for the next few years, but Matt does enough with his speed and his possession that a significant portion of Sens fans would be okay with the trade if everything didn't fall off the rails.

There's a lot of reasons for Sens fans to hate the trade or hate the direction of the franchise is headed, but Matt Duchene (or more specifically the value at the time of the trade) is the least of our worries.

 

[Hasbro]

It's more than a marginal upgrade, and if that pick ends up in the 20's like Dorion thought then the price to upgrade is one most Sens fans would pay.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

[henchman21]

I think they saw the bad Matt during his first couple months, but yeah. Duchene is incredibly streaky and the type of player that is incredibly frustrating. The natural talent is there to be a PPG player, and for stretches he can be that player... he just isn't that consistently and with his skating taking a step back (or the NHL catching up) he gets frustrated quicker and his mental game gets in the way. Duchene had a good finish to the season when he had nothing on the line and he could play free.

The Turris/Duchene debate... you are trading positives and negative. Turris is more consistent and a significantly better two way player vs Duchene who is more dynamic and will put up a few more points overall, but is less consistently and worse away from the puck. I think it depends on how you want to build your team in who you prefer. To me, with my evaluation that they are both 2nd line quality players... I'd prefer Turris because I can count on his game more and he fits the 2nd line mold better to me. Though if Duchene is on his game, he can provide 1st level play for long stretches.