Sens Tank Nation Part 1- The Fruit of Futility

[Hasbro]

They finished #2 over all this year and are drafting 4th. We finished #1 O/A and drafted 4th.

You can either know what you're getting, or gamble. The Sens get to make their off-season moves with a clear cut plan and nothing hanging over their heads, as well as selecting a good player at #16. The Avs get a high end winger in the system now that they desperately need.

They potentially need to start a rebuild, and we have a need for another high end piece not quantity sooner rather than later.

I think the merits of the deal are pretty simple to see for both sides.

I'd also do it for #4 if Montreal was willing to switch spots for a 3rd or later, and they'd know we were drafting Z or Svech and not Kotka.

If Sakic ended up trading in effect Hughes and Kaut for Zadina straight up there'd be some buyers remorse. That's a bet both parties should hedge.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If Sakic ended up trading in effect Hughes and Kaut for Zadina straight up there'd be some buyers remorse. That's a bet both parties should hedge.

I wouldn't have any. The act of making the trade would dictate each teams decisions moving forward.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, but we're also giving up pick 16 and all the value associated with that. I'd rather pick at 16 this year and roll the dice for the next than send two-for-one firsts on a pick that's already house money.

I'll take one Zadina over two Josts right now based on our needs.

 

[Hasbro]

I'll take one Zadina over two Josts right now based on our needs.

Two Rantenens? A Jost and a Hughes?

 

[McMetal]

I'll take one Zadina over two Josts right now based on our needs.

I guess I'm just more confident in rolling those dice. Regardless, I think Ottawa will prefer to roll those dice unless EK tells them he intends to walk and they go into full panic mode by draft day.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I guess I'm just more confident in rolling those dice. Regardless, I think Ottawa will prefer to roll those dice unless EK tells them he intends to walk and they go into full panic mode by draft day.

Yeah I completely understand. I'm not one that thinks Ottawa is going to somehow make the playoffs next year either. I'd bet on their picking being in the 4-7 range. I just value the known quantity and getting that player in the system/team a year earlier. That's probably influenced by how I feel about what could be available for us at #16 too, as I mentioned in the draft thread.

They are bonkers if they don't trade EK this off-season IMO. Them having their pick or not could influence the type of return they look for though. That being whatever mix of roster players and high end futures. Which could have a considerable impact on where that pick ends up.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah I completely understand. I'm not one that thinks Ottawa is going to somehow make the playoffs next year either. I'd bet on their picking being in the 4-7 range. I just value the known quantity and getting that player in the system/team a year earlier. That's probably influenced by how I feel about what could be available for us at #16 too, as I mentioned in the draft thread.

They are bonkers if they don't trade EK this off-season IMO. Them having their pick or not could influence the type of return they look for though. That being whatever mix of roster players and high end futures. Which could have a considerable impact on where that pick ends up.

I get it. The known quantity, especially at a position of need, is appealing. But I also think your 4-7 prediction next year is pretty spot on, and I like our odds at that pick even better than I like our spot at 16, so I guess we're just coming from different foundations on this.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I get it. The known quantity, especially at a position of need, is appealing. But I also think your 4-7 prediction next year is pretty spot on, and I like our odds at that pick even better than I like our spot at 16, so I guess we're just coming from different foundations on this.

I'm one that believes in the importance of going hard after filling specific roster needs as long as it does not handicap you in another area. I've done pretty well in my fantasy keeper leagues in the past over paying to force specific deals when needed.

I value prospects highly, but I'm also lean heavily towards the now in what I want for my team. Sometimes that's a flaw, and I'm constantly walking the line of patience and jumping the gun because of it. Even with this strategy I usually was able to keep a fairly strong stable of young players.

I think that pick at #16 is probably 2-3 years out from filling a need. Which is also why I'd be willing trade it in a deal for someone like Skinner as well.

I do love the position we're in. They have options, but sitting on their hands would be a mistake IMO.

Edit: If it was up to me this off-season. The Avs would sign one of Hickey/CDH, one of Stastny/Tavares, and either trade up in the draft or trade for Skinner. Those would be my top goals, but the center would be a high priority. If I couldn't get one of Stastny/JT I'd look hard for a reasonable trade. Even without it though, a second line of Skinner, Jost, Zadina/Svetch would be a stark upgrade.

I'm a touch skeptical about Carlson personally as well.

 

[McMetal]

I'm one that believes in the importance of going hard after filling specific roster needs as long as it does not handicap you in another area. I've done pretty well in my fantasy keeper leagues in the past over paying to force specific deals when needed.

I value prospects highly, but I'm also lean heavily towards the now in what I want for my team. Sometimes that's a flaw, and I'm constantly walking the line of patience and jumping the gun because of it. Even with this strategy I usually was able to keep a fairly strong stable of young players.

I think that pick at #16 is probably 2-3 years out from filling a need. Which is also why I'd be willing trade it in a deal for someone like Skinner as well.

I do love the position we're in. They have options, but sitting on their hands would be a mistake IMO.

Edit: If it was up to me this off-season. The Avs would sign one of Hickey/CDH, one of Stastny/Tavares, and either trade up in the draft or trade for Skinner. Those would be my top goals, but the center would be a high priority. If I couldn't get one of Stastny/JT I'd look hard for a reasonable trade. Even without it though, a second line of Skinner, Jost, Zadina/Svetch would be a stark upgrade.

I'm a touch skeptical about Carlson personally as well.

If it makes long term sense, I'm in for using #16 for trade bait too. But for me, I see this team as closer to the beginning of a rebuild than the end, so I really don't want to move firsts unless we're filling a need for 5+ years. I'd rather just keep all our firsts the next two years and if you're making a short term move like signing Stastny, don't let it cost you any high end futures until you know what you have in them.

 

[Piestany88]

Yeah, but we're also giving up pick 16 and all the value associated with that. I'd rather pick at 16 this year and roll the dice for the next than send two-for-one firsts on a pick that's already house money.

Definitely, we could even get a player as good as Zadina at #16 . ( Denisenko, Kravstov, etc.) And sit and wait on the 2019

 

[McMetal]

Definitely, we could even get a player as good as Zadina at #16 . ( Denisenko, Kravstov, etc.) And sit and wait on the 2019

I mean, maybe. Nobody has a crystal ball, maybe Denisenko turns into Datsyuk Jr. and we three-peat next decade. It's not likely though, I'm expecting a good top 6 forward out of 16, not much more. Maybe we hit the jackpot and they become something close to Zadina's likely trajectory, but I'm expecting more out of 2019 than 2018.

 

[Ivan13]

Ottawa might be getting a hand from the NHL, hard not to feel good for their fans despite the fact that it is in our best interest that they don't improve next season. It remains to be seen how truthful the above info is, and when can they make an impact.

 

[Ivan13]

Oh brother

 

[henchman21]

Oh Randy's gonna Randy I guess...

 

[Avs_19]

Ottawa might be getting a hand from the NHL, hard not to feel good for their fans despite the fact that it is in our best interest that they don't improve next season. It remains to be seen how truthful the above info is, and when can they make an impact.

I'm going to wait and see on this before reacting one way or another. There have been these type of rumours before and nothing has happened.

 

[Six Assets]

Sens fan here. This thread is jokes lol. Will be fun to read this throughout next season.

 

[Steerpike]

If the Arizona Coyotes are anything to go by, the league doesn't really give a shit.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sens fan here. This thread is jokes lol. Will be fun to read this throughout next season.

Only if Ottawa does well

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So Dreger says he would be very surprised if Hoffman isn't traded at the draft and that a Karlsson trade is much less likely at the draft. They dont want to trade him if they can avoid it.



But lets be real, if they're moving Hoffman that's sending a pretty strong message to Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc. that they're either rebuilding or shedding salary for Melnyk's sake.



Could be a huge indicator of the direction the Sens are heading in.

 

[Avs_19]

Best part of that insider trading segment was Dreger saying it's more likely than not that the Sens trade Hoffman. Hopefully it'll be for all futures.

I can't see Karlsson re-signing there so he could also be gone pretty soon. That might have to wait until after July 1st if they really want to make it look like they tried and he rejected them.

Montreal still may not be over the trade that sent P.K. Subban to Nashville two years ago, but there is lots of chatter that Subban might be on the move again. The Preds will need to commit significant dollars to Roman Josi and Ryan Ellis in each of these next two summers, plus Kevin Fiala this summer. The hot rumour has been some kind of deal that involves sending Karlsson to Nashville for Subban. Right now, Subban is owed $36 million, which is a small percentage of what Karlsson will ultimately receive.

https://www.tsn.ca/erik-karlsson-tops-first-trade-bait-board-of-the-summer-1.1105047

I hadn't heard that before and it's a strange rumour. Karlsson will be making more than Subban on his next contract so that doesn't make a ton of sense straight up. The Preds would likely need something else of value in return as well because I can't see them trading Subban for a rental.

 

[Eltuna]

Hoffman was always going to be traded if the Sens want to retain Karlsson. It wouldn’t just be him either, the Sens have way too many big contracts for a 68-70 million dollar cap. If they actually keep Karlsson you can expect guys like Pageau, Smith, and Ceci to also be on the block. Having Karlsson at 11, Ryan at 7.5, Duchene/Stone at 8, and Gaborik at 4.875 is death on an internal cap.

 

[Avalanche]

Hoffman had chemistry with Duchene to finish off the season, so it makes complete sense he won't be with them next year.

Matty is used to that.

 

[S E P H]

Sens fan here. This thread is jokes lol. Will be fun to read this throughout next season.

What a stupid post, if the situation where reversed no doubt you guys' would have a thread about us on your board too. Food for thought...

 

[Six Assets]

What a stupid post, if the situation where reversed no doubt you guys' would have a thread about us on your board too. Food for thought...

I think you misunderstood the post. Nothing wrong with this thread, I love it.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think you misunderstood the post. Nothing wrong with this thread, I love it.

That love should be parleyed into 16th + 2019 for #4 O/A. Solves so many issues.. Assuming Z is there, or Montreal is willing to swap #3 for #4 for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.