Sens Tank Nation Part 1- The Fruit of Futility

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Pierce Hawthorne

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I really don't know what to expect from Dorion as the return for Karlsson. If Friedman's speculation was accurate, the package from Vegas at the deadline wasn't one that was going to help the Sens at all right now. Now you're only guaranteed Karlsson for one playoff run instead of two so that could impact his value somewhat but there could also be more teams in play now.


But he would also be free to sign an extension this summer as well meaning the acquiring team could potentially be getting him for 8 playoff runs instead of just 2, or 1 if he comes with an extension.

All that said, I really dont think the Karlsson deal is going to move the needle for the Sens significantly enough next season.

Look at the rest of that roster and even with 2-3 new good players, I dont see a playoff team. They have a downright awful Defense where Cody Ceci is the #1 without Karlsson. Even if they were to get a Dougie Hamilton in a separate deal, that still leaves Hamilton, and then some combination of Ceci/Chabot/Boroweicki/Claesson/Harpur/Wolanin filling out the rest of the Defense. Which is a tonne of either A) Inexperience, or B) Mediocre players that will play above their pay grade.

Then you still have Anderson and Condon in net. I guess it's possible Andy bounces back next season, but at 38 years old now I would say its much more likely that last year was a sign of his age catching up to him then it was a matter of some really word pattern where he's good 1 year and bad the next. Condon is Condon, basically a worse Bernier in that he can probably steal a handful of games over the course of a season, but he's going to be well below average in way more games then he steals.

They look a bit better up front then they do in net and on the back end, but still not anywhere near a playoff team I dont think. Duchene is not a #1C for a playoff caliber team. Stone is a legit 1st line Winger and Hoffman adds some solid secondary scoring, but after that, they are once again relying on a lot of mediocrity or inexperience. Is Ryan Dzingel really a 20+ goal player in the NHL going forward or was last year an anomaly for the guy who did well on a bad team with no pressure on him? And what kind of impact will Logan Brown, Colin White, Brady Tkachuk(Or if they do trade for Hamilton they wont even get that #4 pick), etc. etc. have as rookies without much insulation from the tough match-ups and minutes?

To me, looking at the Sens roster, and then looking at that Atlantic division, I just see no way they are a playoff team next year unless something absolutely crazy happens to that roster this summer that is so far out of left field nobody could even begin to anticipate it.

Boston, Toronto, and Tampa Bay are all legitimate powerhouse teams that will all only get better next year as well. Florida isn't a powerhouse team but they went on a hell of a run the 2nd half this year, and should improve next year as well.

Buffalo just added a franchise cornerstone Dman to the team(Though he may not have a huge impact on that team next season), and Montreal with a healthy Carey Price and Shea Weber will likely be back in the thick of things again also, they dont have any intentions of rebuilding or tanking right now.

They're not beating out any of those Top 3 seeds in the Atlantic which means they're fighting for 1 of the 2 wild cards. Likely fighting against Florida and Montreal from the Atlantic. Not to mention the Metro division, that will see all of Pittsburgh, Washington, Columbus, Philly, New Jersey, and Carolina likely expecting to make playoff next season as well. Three of those teams get the division seeds but that still leaves another 3 teams outside fighting for the wild card spots.

I dont think Ottawa will be better then any of those 6 teams in the Metro or the 5 mentioned in the Atlantic, not barring something out of left field.





Long story short, depending on the Karlsson trade for me will determine whether the Sens are a legit basement team in the bottom 3-4 teams, or if they end up treading water at times in the season and wind up in the ~9-13 range when all is said and done. If they get some good NHL level talent in the Karlsson deal they could improve to a 9-13 finish. If it's heavily futures based as was rumored to be coming back in the Vegas trade at the deadline, I dont see them outside of the bottom 5 again next summer.
 
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Ivan13

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Giving Karlsson the chance to talk to teams and potentially narrow down the list of suitors might backfire on Dorion spectacularly. Imagine if Karlsson only wants to play for two teams?
 

S E P H

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Giving Karlsson the chance to talk to teams and potentially narrow down the list of suitors might backfire on Dorion spectacularly. Imagine if Karlsson only wants to play for two teams?
Has this been confirmed anywhere that Karlsson is getting the chance to talk to other teams? Or is this speculation?
 

cgf

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Giving Karlsson the chance to talk to teams and potentially narrow down the list of suitors might backfire on Dorion spectacularly. Imagine if Karlsson only wants to play for two teams?

When has that ever actually played out that way?
 

McMetal

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Karlsson doesn't strike me as a picky guy, nor a particularly difficult player to negotiate with. I think his desire to leave is a testament to just how monumentally stupid Melnyk has been, and to some extent Dorion. They had a loyal guy in their hands and they pissed away all of their good will with him.
 
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S E P H

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Karlsson doesn't strike me as a picky guy, nor a particularly difficult player to negotiate with. I think his desire to leave is a testament to just how monumentally stupid Melnyk has been, and to some extent Dorion. They had a loyal guy in their hands and they pissed away all of their good will with him.
He reminds me of a bit of Tavares where both are loyal guys sort getting pushed from their organizations. What I mean is at the time, Tavares signed a really friendly almost team discount contract after being drafted 1st overall. Besides MacKinnon, I can't think of any other first overall player getting paid that low of a salary (even if he just came off his ELC). He's going to want to get paid what he's deserved and for an organization like the Islanders, he might demand more for the problems they've put him through - in regards to success. Similar to Karlsson, but in Erik's case it's more about a not-very-rich-owner paying Karlsson 10 million dollars per year while not having the funds to keep the rest of the team. Melnyk and to some degree Dorion have been quite outspoken about this which have made the matters worst. Karlsson might realistically re-sign with the Senators after all the roller-coaster hype we've been through as fans, but I think there is some truth/realism when he went to the media and pretty much said that he's going to take what he thinks he deserves (aka not a hometown discount).
 
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Ivan13

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What I find most peculiar about the trade is the perception of Bowers by Sens fans. I asked them how they view him and some gave good well-thought-out answers, while most went on a tangent and said they view him as a bottom 6 player. I'd lie if I said I don't find it amusing, on one hand they are salivating over Brady, on the other they are taking subtle digs at Bowers who looked just as good as Bradz this season while being only a month and a half older.
 

TruePowerSlave

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What I find most peculiar about the trade is the perception of Bowers by Sens fans.

The Sens board have multiple posters who think that the Duchene trade was excellent for Ottawa, even a steal according to some, so yeah not all that surprising that Bowers is seen as a meh prospect. All fan bases have those loonies but you really have to be in denial to think that Ottawa won that trade hands down. Once Matt starts slowing down in a few years the trade will look bad, even if the 2019 pick won't be top 15 and he resigns with the Senators.
 

tucker3434

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EK would be dumb to sign in Ottawa. They’ll never be a winner if they pay him what he deserves. They’ll just make cuts elsewhere, and he’ll have to carry that team by himself. Their time to moneyball a contender around him has passed.
 
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cgf

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What I find most peculiar about the trade is the perception of Bowers by Sens fans. I asked them how they view him and some gave good well-thought-out answers, while most went on a tangent and said they view him as a bottom 6 player. I'd lie if I said I don't find it amusing, on one hand they are salivating over Brady, on the other they are taking subtle digs at Bowers who looked just as good as Bradz this season while being only a month and a half older.

Yeah, like all fanbases they have some really good posters, but their obnoxious posters might be the most obnoxious per capita.

Though I can't entirely blame them for being pissed that Dorion picked Bowers ahead of Tolvanen (and to a lesser extent Kostin) because he was playing it safe, some take that entirely too far; being mad at Bowers for Dorion's decision and just running wild with the "playing it safe" idea. Not being allowed to participate due to NCAA-rules, while Batherson & Formenton were both shining in camp right after being drafted, also didn't help get Sens fans on his side even before they traded him away. They were overly harsh on him to begin with, and since he's no longer their prospect their more reasonable posters haven't bothered to push back on that front enough to sway the group, so you really can't take many of their takes on Bowers to heart.

Though I do feel the need to point out there are quite a few good sens fans that were willing to engage with me reasonably when I visited their board. So we shouldn't paint them to broadly just because their hot-take-droppers have some exceptionally hot takes.
 

expatriatedtexan

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Serious question here...given the state of the AVs the last few years and how long Duchene was in the trade rumours and how well Girard has played so far....would anyone have been pissed if we traded Duchene straight up for Girard?

I mean, you always want more than an unproven rookie in a deal like this but if Girard keeps up this play, that's almost a decent trade. Joe Sakic absolutely had another wicked wrister with this trade.
 

MarkT

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Serious question here...given the state of the AVs the last few years and how long Duchene was in the trade rumours and how well Girard has played so far....would anyone have been pissed if we traded Duchene straight up for Girard?

I mean, you always want more than an unproven rookie in a deal like this but if Girard keeps up this play, that's almost a decent trade. Joe Sakic absolutely had another wicked wrister with this trade.

Way too soon to say at this point, but I think it's at least close. I wouldn't be too shocked to find when all is said and done that Girard is a better player than Duchene, but were not there yet. He's still just a 19 year old rookie.
 

PAZ

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Serious question here...given the state of the AVs the last few years and how long Duchene was in the trade rumours and how well Girard has played so far....would anyone have been pissed if we traded Duchene straight up for Girard?

I mean, you always want more than an unproven rookie in a deal like this but if Girard keeps up this play, that's almost a decent trade. Joe Sakic absolutely had another wicked wrister with this trade.

I would've been pissed as hell at the time of the trade. Trading a #1C for an unproven l, undersized 19 year old that was drafted in he 2nd round of the previous draft is piss poor asset management. The rumours were simply that, rumours. There wasn't any bad blood between Sakic and Duchene.

If you're asking in hindsight, knowing that Mack would break out which led to a bunch of other players taking the next step, then I'd be ok with a 1 for 1 deal. But from a pure value standpoint I still believe Duchene is worth more than Girard.
 
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WarriorOfGandhi

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then we would just need a nice RacK to complete it

capd4074hmtlcleuzpuj.jpg
 

Balthazar

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What I find most peculiar about the trade is the perception of Bowers by Sens fans. I asked them how they view him and some gave good well-thought-out answers, while most went on a tangent and said they view him as a bottom 6 player. I'd lie if I said I don't find it amusing, on one hand they are salivating over Brady, on the other they are taking subtle digs at Bowers who looked just as good as Bradz this season while being only a month and a half older.

Would you rather have Adam Henrique or Matthew Tkachuk? Similar stats so it's the same thing, right? Brady isn't going to get drafted only because of his points.
 

Tweaky

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Would a MarK work? 'Cause there is one out there that I would not mind terribly if they swapped for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
I mean, we would still have a 1st and a 3rd next year....
 
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