SEMIN: Unjust victim of a systematic process of intimidation, manipulation, and scape

[Sens1Canes2]

Honestly what happens is they probably push for him to "retire" much the same way that Kovalchuk did, and go back to the KHL. Unfortunate as that may be, it's better to have 3.5 in dead cap space that you're not paying real money to for a few years then to have 7mil in dead cap space that you are paying real money to.

That's the second best scenario IMO. The best is obviously for Semin to pick his head out of his ass and start playing like he's supposed to and getting paid to. That would be ideal. But, if it's not gonna happen, I don't see him being moved for anything substantial. In fact, I think it'd be like the Ward deal that Calgary came up with - "pay us to take him." Because of many factors, not the least of which is his reputation, real or imagined.

I hope he turns it around.

 

[rocky7]

Honestly what happens is they probably push for him to "retire" much the same way that Kovalchuk did, and go back to the KHL. Unfortunate as that may be, it's better to have 3.5 in dead cap space that you're not paying real money to for a few years then to have 7mil in dead cap space that you are paying real money to.

as ridiculous as this talk has become about Alexander Semin, and the waiver possibility as well, how does that work? the "retirement" thing?

 

[DaveG]

as ridiculous as this talk has become about Alexander Semin, and the waiver possibility as well, how does that work? the "retirement" thing?

Essentially we'd be on the hook for the same amount from a cap perspective that we'd be on the hook for if we were to use a standard buyout on Semin. Actually I was wrong about the amount (3.5) it's actually ~2.3 per year, forgot about the 2/3rds thing instead of it being the whole value. Not sure where I got that from honestly.

Anyway, Semin then wouldn't be able to play in the NHL after that point for a set number of years (3?), but would be free to play in any other non-North American professional league of his choosing. We wouldn't have to pay him the money left on the contract from what I recall, just take the burden of the cap hit penalty for 6 years.


Definitely the preferential ending instead of eating 40% of his cap hit to ditch him for whatever junk contract that whatever team is willing to toss our way.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Essentially we'd be on the hook for the same amount from a cap perspective that we'd be on the hook for if we were to use a standard buyout on Semin. Actually I was wrong about the amount (3.5) it's actually ~2.3 per year, forgot about the 2/3rds thing instead of it being the whole value. Not sure where I got that from honestly.

Anyway, Semin then wouldn't be able to play in the NHL after that point for a set number of years (3?), but would be free to play in any other non-North American professional league of his choosing. We wouldn't have to pay him the money left on the contract from what I recall, just take the burden of the cap hit penalty for 6 years.


Definitely the preferential ending instead of eating 40% of his cap hit to ditch him for whatever junk contract that whatever team is willing to toss our way.

I don't think that Semin will pull a Kovalchuk. I also don't think that Francis wants to take the cap penalty.

I think they will either place him on waivers, or simply wait for him to get his **** together, before shipping him off elsewhere.

 

[rocky7]

the issue to me though, may be Karmanos and what he has to say about it what with attendance and everything else.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Caught a little of the Adam Gold show tonight, and apparently Semin and Nester-whatever are in the lineup against Colorado. Citing "the whispers in my ear." Which I assume means Forslund or Maniscalco.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I'm still holding out hope that he breaks out of it. Been one of my favorite players for years, would hate to see him go out like this.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Essentially we'd be on the hook for the same amount from a cap perspective that we'd be on the hook for if we were to use a standard buyout on Semin. Actually I was wrong about the amount (3.5) it's actually ~2.3 per year, forgot about the 2/3rds thing instead of it being the whole value. Not sure where I got that from honestly.

But New Jersey isn't on the hook for a boyout cap hit on Kovalchuk. According to capgeek there is only the recapture penalty from the cap circumvention in his contract, which would not be an issue with Semin. Did they change this afterwards, because of Kovalchuk?

 

[Wolfpuck]

I'm still holding out hope that he breaks out of it. Been one of my favorite players for years, would hate to see him go out like this.

Same.

Assuming Adam Gold is correct (barf), Semin will be in the lineup against the Avalanche, a team so inept defensively that he should have a real chance at getting his groove back.

 

[DaveG]

But New Jersey isn't on the hook for a boyout cap hit on Kovalchuk. According to capgeek there is only the recapture penalty from the cap circumvention in his contract, which would not be an issue with Semin. Did they change this afterwards, because of Kovalchuk?

Honestly not sure, they may have, though I know people are still talking about the recapture of doom with the Luongo contract

 

[Sens1Canes2]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the two guys who have won 5 of last the 8 MVP awards and 6 of the last 8 Outstanding Player awards (as recognized by other players) are probably going 1-2.

Gee whiz, hope I'm not going out on too much of a limb there.

Came across this on ESPN.com this evening, thought it was relevant to our discussions few days ago.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/1...ason-john-buccigross-thoughts-#nhlrank-top-30

 

[TorstenFrings]

Honestly not sure, they may have, though I know people are still talking about the recapture of doom with the Luongo contract

Well, I think the recapture would apply in any retirement situation, it's just that Semin's contract is exactly salary=cap hit every year, so there won't be one on it. Just the buyout caphit to the team was new to me. That would have been pretty bad for NJD, if that had applied then.

 

[HisIceness]

Caught a little of the Adam Gold show tonight, and apparently Semin and Nester-whatever are in the lineup against Colorado. Citing "the whispers in my ear." Which I assume means Forslund or Maniscalco.

Might be a now or never situation. Lets hope he makes the best of it.

 

[DaveG]

Came across this on ESPN.com this evening, thought it was relevant to our discussions few days ago.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/1...ason-john-buccigross-thoughts-#nhlrank-top-30

I have to seriously question any list that would have Andy Greene in front of Sekera and Faulk

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I have to seriously question any list that would have Andy Greene in front of Sekera and Faulk

Having OV and Malkin that low is ridiculous.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I have to seriously question any list that would have Andy Greene in front of Sekera and Faulk

I only read the 30.

 

[TheOllieC]

Hahahaha it's so terrible. Giroux way too low. Top 50 dmen?

#25: Johnny Boychuk
#29: Olli Maatta
#31: Torey Krug
#34 Marc Staal
#39: Jonas Brodin
#44: Johnny Oduya

all ahead of Justin Faulk

I'm about to combust

 

[Novacane]

Top (insert number here) lists are dumb and should be outlawed.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I really can't see them putting Semin on waivers. That's a lot of cap space to eat up over the next few years. If they do, yeah, a team will absolutely grab him at 3.5 mil, but that seems like such a waste.

If the Canes waive him and somebody place a claim, the Canes have no liability whatsoever and the claiming team takes on his full contract and cap. It isn't only $3.5M...whatever team claims him is responsible for the full $7M.

I don't think it will get to that honestly, but if, by the off chance it did, I don't think anyone would take him at that salary because there are only about 7 teams with that much space. If it goes down that route, it's probably more likely a trade with cap space coming back Carolina's way or Carolina retaining some amount of the contract.

 

[What the Faulk]

^ Which is literally the worst thing they can do, so I wouldn't put it past them to do it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

^ Which is literally the worst thing they can do, so I wouldn't put it past them to do it.

Is it really though? The obvious BEST thing is for Semin to start playing like he can and doing what the coaches ask. If for some reason he can't, or won't, and it's not injury related, then what other choices are there?

I obviously don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but there are signs out there (Forslund, Peters comments earlier, multiple scratches, etc...) that the coaches feel Semin isn't doing what they are asking. Although it's speculation, let's assume that's the case for the moment. If so, and it doesn't change, what other options do the coach/GM realistically have? Of course nobody wants to have to give away a player for free (or worse yet, keep some of the contract), but if it's truly a case of square peg and round holes, there are not a whole lot of options. I don't see the holes changing any time soon.

Hopefully he comes around and it never gets to that.

 

[What the Faulk]

Jokinen was thought to be the same way, and he'd be second on this team in points right now. Thats with playing in Florida.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Jokinen was thought to be the same way, and he'd be second on this team in points right now. Thats with playing in Florida.

And Ruutu was thought to be the same way and so far still is. That's irrelevant as each situation and player is different and presuming how one would have performed if still here is speculative. My question still stands. If it's true that Semin can't or won't play how the coaches are asking him to and it doesn't change, what options are there?

It's not to say he couldn't be productive elsewhere in this what if scenario, but if it truly isn't working here, what would you suggest? I doubt the GM and coach will be changing anytime soon.

Again, I don't think it will get to that point so this is all speculation.

 

[StormCast]

The blame clearly lies with Bruce Boudreau. He enabled and encouraged a pond hockey mentality. The Ducks should do the right thing and take Semin for Frederick Andersen, settling the score on two counts.

 

[dammit100]

Jokinen was thought to be the same way, and he'd be second on this team in points right now. Thats with playing in Florida.

That's assuming his point total wouldn't change being on this team. Maybe he'd have 17 points now, or he could also have 6. Jokinen was one of my favorites, but at the time we traded him, the entire league had passed on claiming him from waivers.