SEMIN: Unjust victim of a systematic process of intimidation, manipulation, and scape

[Anton Dubinchuk]

These are the players whose salary this season is within .5 mil of Semin.

Kopitar
Bergeron
Zetterberg
Sedin x2
Marleau
Thornton
Stasny
Backstrom
Toews
Kane

That's his pay grade. That's where expectations come from.

those player arent even that good

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Okay, but Semin hasn't scored more than 30 since 2009-10, before Jeff Skinner was even drafted. Hell, Skinner has done it almost as much as Semin has in their respective careers. Meanwhile, Carolina Semin is assisting on more goals per 60 minutes than Washington Semin was.

You're not allowed to arbitrarily set your own high expectations then get upset when someone fails to meet them.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1730945

Oh C'mon WFT, it isn't me (or others) "arbitrarily" setting high expectations and you know that. Just look at the prediction thread where almost everyone fell into the 60-70 or 70+ points prediction..and many predicting 30+ goals. You can't say with a straight face that Semin wasn't brought in here with the expectation to score.

1) When he came over, it was said that his last couple of years he had crappy linemates in Washington and thus the drop in his numbers

2) First season in Carolina? 44 points in 44 games. Heck after he got going last year, he ended up with 22 Goals in 65 games. Let's not act like he isn't capable of it.

3) He was signed to the current contract based on his performance in that strike shortened year.

Whether you want to admit it or not, expectations from the lion share of fans, media, and likely even the Canes organization was that he'll score ~65-70+ points. Just like the expectation for E. Staal is that he'll be in the 75+ point range. If they achieve that, people will likely be happy. If they fall far short, people will complain about it and question "intangibles".

 

[What the Faulk]

Since 2012 he is averaging 63 points per 82 games. So what exactly are people complaining about? That he has 2 assists in 5 games this year?

 

[My Special Purpose]

Curious what makes it obvious work ethic is Cam's issue? He's horrifically bad, don't get me wrong.

I didn't say work ethic was his issue. I said it was "obviously a factor." And what made it obvious was looking at him without a shirt on in one of the opens this season. He looks like he's never lifted a weight in his life. He's never in any of the fitness videos that pop up. The only time I've ever seen him doing anything to take care of himself it was hot yoga (which honestly seems like the absolutely *least* you can do and make it look like you care). And he's got a bad back at 29. I think it's pretty clear Cam hasn't taken really good care of himself physically and it's affecting his game. I think for $6.5 million, the guy can be reasonably expected to keep himself in a physical condition that enables him to keep up a certain level of production. I think it's clear Cam hasn't done that.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

"“I remember Cam coming to our training camps as a rookie when I was still in Carolina, and I have a lot of respect for the goalie that Cam Ward can be and for the goalie he’s been at different points in his career. The key is now for Cam to dial down and invest in himself, believe in himself. He’s got to get a routine, get on the ice early, work with their video coach, Chris Huffine, and their new incoming goalie coach, Dave Marcoux. When Cam Ward’s on his game, he’s a top-10, top-12 goalie, but he needs to push himself. This is a critical year for Cam.

“Guys on that level push themselves every day. Henrik Lundqvist is on that level every day. Arturs Irbe, Nikolai Khabibulin — they were on that level every day. There’s a regularity and commitment for goalies specifically, and Cam has wavered from that at different points. Cam Ward needs to invest in Cam. If he does, I don’t see why he can’t bounce back. I’ve always been a big Cam Ward guy. Now Cam has to be a big Cam Ward guy.” - Kevin Weekes, saying what nobody in the Raleigh media has been willing to say. I bet it's been well known around media circles but they don't want to speak up. Just like how Eric Staal came to camp out of shape in 2011 (probably not the only time) but nobody said a word. Good thing they are from the right country.

 

[My Special Purpose]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1730945

Oh C'mon WFT, it isn't me (or others) "arbitrarily" setting high expectations and you know that. Just look at the prediction thread where almost everyone fell into the 60-70 or 70+ points prediction..and many predicting 30+ goals. You can't say with a straight face that Semin wasn't brought in here with the expectation to score.

1) When he came over, it was said that his last couple of years he had crappy linemates in Washington and thus the drop in his numbers

2) First season in Carolina? 44 points in 44 games. Heck after he got going last year, he ended up with 22 Goals in 65 games. Let's not act like he isn't capable of it.

3) He was signed to the current contract based on his performance in that strike shortened year.

Whether you want to admit it or not, expectations from the lion share of fans, media, and likely even the Canes organization was that he'll score ~65-70+ points. Just like the expectation for E. Staal is that he'll be in the 75+ point range. If they achieve that, people will likely be happy. If they fall far short, people will complain about it and question "intangibles".

See, but that's exactly the point. People don't start by questioning "intangibles" with anyone other than Semin. They start by pointing to injuries, linemates and other "tangibles." The only player who has his "intangibles" questioned publicly is Semin.

*WE* may question Eric Staal, Cam Ward or others, but the media doesn't. The media paints them all as victims of tangible circumstance. But Semin gets no such leeway. It immediately goes to his intangibles.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

If you want to look at how this problem with double standards is something that starts with the organization, just look at these quotes by JR:

Staal "went through a summer where it wasn't a normal summer. He felt very bad about his brother not playing and that probably effected how he prepared for training camp and the season."

Kaberle "came into camp and he didn't prepare himself properly. He came in like the Boston Bruins did and they won the Stanley Cup. He enjoyed his summer and quite frankly he hasn't caught up." "Got off to a slow start, completely by his own doing."

http://downloads.hurricanes.nhl.com/audio1112/rutherford1113011.mp3

When Staal slacks off in the summer, it's okay because he has the sads about his brother. Soft Euro Kaberle? Hang him. Both of them were playing like crap, Kaberle got ripped in the press while Staal got nothing but excuses, despite far more being invested in Staal.

 

[Joe McGrath]

He rubs media types the wrong way. If he just took the time to learn the 5 Best Ron Francis cliches in English and spit them at reporters every night like EStaal does they'd probably never go in on him. Is that petty and stupid? Of course it is, but it's the truth.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

See, but that's exactly the point. People don't start by questioning "intangibles" with anyone other than Semin. They start by pointing to injuries, linemates and other "tangibles." The only player who has his "intangibles" questioned publicly is Semin.

*WE* may question Eric Staal, Cam Ward or others, but the media doesn't. The media paints them all as victims of tangible circumstance. But Semin gets no such leeway. It immediately goes to his intangibles.

I wasn't arguing that the press doesn't have a double standard when it comes to Semin, they do. I was referring to fans/this board when I say their intangibles get questioned.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Since 2012 he is averaging 63 points per 82 games. So what exactly are people complaining about? That he has 2 assists in 5 games this year?

My guess is that people are complaining because he had only 42 points last year after signing a long term $7M contract and is off to a slow start (scoring) this year. I don't think it's anything more than that, so really not that complicated. People (on here, not press since that gets confusing) regularly ride Staal if/when he has a slow start, and even when he doesn't.

Anyhow, when Eric and Gerbe return, I suspect we'll see the offense pick up and Semin's numbers will improve and then the board will complain about how the media either isn't noticing that or how they complain about "why wasn't he doing that sooner". Rinse and repeat.

 

[bluedevil58*]

HAve we started attacking each other yet due to the Canes dominating play?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

HAve we started attacking each other yet due to the Canes dominating play?

Stop Trolling

 

[Joe McGrath]

My guess is that people are complaining because he had only 42 points last year after signing a long term $7M contract and is off to a slow start (scoring) this year. I don't think it's anything more than that, so really not that complicated. People (on here, not press since that gets confusing) regularly ride Staal if/when he has a slow start, and even when he doesn't.

Anyhow, when Eric and Gerbe return, I suspect we'll see the offense pick up and Semin's numbers will improve and then the board will complain about how the media either isn't noticing that or how they complain about "why wasn't he doing that sooner". Rinse and repeat.

I wouldn't count on the offense picking up THAT much. Unless it's in garbage time, since they are going to start playing teams that don't suck soon.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wouldn't count on the offense picking up THAT much. Unless it's in garbage time, since they are going to start playing teams that don't suck soon.

It won't be too long before teams start throwing their back-up goalies at the Canes though.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

It won't be too long before teams start throwing their back-up goalies at the Canes though.

Eric Staal's "second half turnarounds" always seem to strangely coincide with this. Hmmmm.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

I'm often pessimistic, and if I were in Semin's skates, I'd find it hard to go out and be enthusiastic to play each night knowing I had two AHL 3rd line level guys on my line, and was expected to carry the team by scoring every night.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I'm often pessimistic, and if I were in Semin's skates, I'd find it hard to go out and be enthusiastic to play each night knowing I had two AHL 3rd line level guys on my line, and was expected to carry the team by scoring every night.

I mean, it's not like he's being paid $35 million over 5 years for his services or anything like that.

 

[bluedevil58*]

ARe you looking past the fact that for about 4 games he was the only legit scoring threat that teams needed to focus on shutting down?

 

[TheBigKahuna]

I mean, it's not like he's being paid $35 million over 5 years for his services or anything like that.

Go have this debate with Jim Rutherford. And while you're there discuss Cam Ward and Eric Staal's horrible contracts while you're at it. Those 3 guys should be carrying this team to 40 wins a season based on their contracts and your reasoning.

Everyone except Rutherford knew that was too much money for Semin. Jim was just elated that a guy with that much talent wanted to play here, and had shown signs of greatness in his first season with the Canes.

My only defense of Semin is this: At what point in his career, was he ever known as a guy who single handedly changed the outcome of a game with his dynamic skills and enthusiasm? Has he ever carried a team?

 

[Joe McGrath]

Go have this debate with Jim Rutherford. And while you're there discuss Cam Ward and Eric Staal's horrible contracts while you're at it. Those 3 guys should be carrying this team to 40 wins a season based on their contracts and your reasoning.

Everyone except Rutherford knew that was too much money for Semin. Jim was just elated that a guy with that much talent wanted to play here, and had shown signs of greatness in his first season with the Canes.

My point is that it is his occupation to show up and be "enthused". Staal has the same problem. I've said several times in the past at least make it look like you give a ****.

 

[bluedevil58*]

Go have this debate with Jim Rutherford. And while you're there discuss Cam Ward and Eric Staal's horrible contracts while you're at it. Those 3 guys should be carrying this team to 40 wins a season based on their contracts and your reasoning.

Everyone except Rutherford knew that was too much money for Semin. Jim was just elated that a guy with that much talent wanted to play here, and had shown signs of greatness in his first season with the Canes.

My only defense of Semin is this: At what point in his career, was he ever known as a guy who single handedly changed the outcome of a game with his dynamic skills and enthusiasm? Has he ever carried a team?

I recall several games against the caps where Semin single handedly dismantled Cam Ward, Not saying that it is hard but I feel that counts.

 

[normalpsychology]

My point is that it is his occupation to show up and be "enthused". Staal has the same problem. I've said several times in the past at least make it look like you give a ****.

that's exactly what I see watching Semin, especially even last night. He hit the stick out of frustration, and a couple times they zoomed in on his face and you could see IME a clear look of frustration and anger, exactly as you'd look when you give a damn

 

[Joe McGrath]

that's exactly what I see watching Semin, especially even last night. He hit the stick out of frustration, and a couple times they zoomed in on his face and you could see IME a clear look of frustration and anger, exactly as you'd look when you give a damn

You mean the same thing Staal does and still gets called out for lack of caring frequently on here?

 

[wastedtime]

Everyone except Rutherford knew that was too much money for Semin. Jim was just elated that a guy with that much talent wanted to play here, and had shown signs of greatness in his first season with the Canes.

I actually think that was PK. I remember JR saying "I was told I had to get this done, get him signed".

One other thing I want to mention, I think this local media narrative is coming from the national media that's been doing it all along. John Forslund often mentions "talking to people around the league" and I think that's where his bias stems from, not the organization. He works other games, has other media contacts. And then the Maniscalco's and the rest run with it because they have no idea how to figure out what's wrong with the Canes other than leadership and effort.
About a week ago, I listened to Maniscalco and Forslund and Forsland was starting to go there with Semin not trying hard enough. Then Maniscalco interviewed Chuck K and he didn't follow the script. Actually used words like lacking confidence, instead of effort/heart. Coach Peters used other terminology as well but I can't remember what now.

I've been listening to away feeds since so not sure about lately, but they didn't all start this way. I really think it started with Forslund. Who again, gets his info from national media types. They did it last year too, though. Lack of effort was the mantra for every loss.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

This team is garbage from top to bottom. Call everybody out on it and stop playing favorites.

That is all.