Sean Couturier Part III

[Tripod]

He must love the new site so he can be notified as soon as someone responds to him.

I guessed he missed where points/60 were one of the columns...and Couts is 2nd.

Some people can't grasp that 5vs5 is not the same as PP. Couts is as good as that group 5vs5. Every stat shows that. The difference in points is from the PP. How people can't see that is beyond me. Hopefully this year the 2nd unit is much better with more talent on it. Pre-season it certainly has looked better....even with Couts and Patrick out of place imo...they should be switched.

 

[Foggy14]

Alex's stats are very useful because they show him compared to his peer group; centers who are in the conversation about a Selke. For me, focusing Sean on a role that has him winning a few Selke's during his career would represent his highest and best use (given his skill set) as a player and his most productive use for the team.

I do agree with John that the idea of Couts as a first line center is putting him out on a limb, unnecessarily. The expectations change and he'll be pulled away from the role he's shown he's very good at. If the experiment continues, I hope he can pull it off.

 

[Curufinwe]

Couturier's role at ES isn't actually changing much. He's just getting Giroux as a LW.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Boys....the time of reckoning is here. No more 3rd line 5 on 5 bullsheet. He is on the first line now. We will see how does.

He hasn't been 3rd line in quite some time. Can you at least try to be realistic?

 

[Curufinwe]

Not since Berube was coach, to be precise.

 

[BritainStix]

It's John Boruk, another swing and a miss.

 

[deadhead]

Unless someone surprises, I don't think we're going to have a "#1 center" in the foreseeable future, that is a top ten scorer who's at least adequate on defense. 50+ ES points.
I do think we have the potential to roll out four credible lines.

Quick and dirty sample, ES scoring
Caps, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 4 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
Pens, 1 (60+), 3 (40-49), 1 (30-39), 7 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
CHI, 1 (60+), 1 (50+), 1 (40-49), 4 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [3 - 40+]
COL, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 7 (30-39), 2 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
Wild, 0 (50+), 6 (40-49), 2 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [6 - 40+]
Ana, 1 (50+), 0 (40-49), 5 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [1 - 40+]
Edmon, 1 (70+), 1 (50+), 0 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 2 (20-29) [2 - 40+]
Mon, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 4 (20-29) [4 - 40+]

 

[Striiker]

There's more than 10 #1Cs in the league... that's way too small of a group.

No wonder you keep saying Giroux isn't one anymore...

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Unless someone surprises, I don't think we're going to have a "#1 center" in the foreseeable future, that is a top ten scorer who's at least adequate on defense. 50+ ES points.
I do think we have the potential to roll out four credible lines.

Quick and dirty sample, ES scoring
Caps, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 4 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
Pens, 1 (60+), 3 (40-49), 1 (30-39), 7 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
CHI, 1 (60+), 1 (50+), 1 (40-49), 4 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [3 - 40+]
COL, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 7 (30-39), 2 (20-29) [4 - 40+]
Wild, 0 (50+), 6 (40-49), 2 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [6 - 40+]
Ana, 1 (50+), 0 (40-49), 5 (30-39), 1 (20-29) [1 - 40+]
Edmon, 1 (70+), 1 (50+), 0 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 2 (20-29) [2 - 40+]
Mon, 1 (50+), 3 (40-49), 3 (30-39), 4 (20-29) [4 - 40+]

Always so many numbers, and they so seldom actually amount to anything.

 

[The Madrigal]

I definitely think if Giroux plays on Shawn Couturier's LW all season, he will have a career year, might even hit 50 points.

 

[Rebels57]

Who is Shawn Couturier?

 

[CodyTheHuman]

Who is Shawn Couturier?

Cousin of Jacob Voracek and Michael Neuvirth.

 

[Magua]

Is this like a Grossman/Grossmann thing? Has his name been Shawn Couturier all this time, but he was too embarrassed to tell people?

Can a mod please change the thread title to "Shawn Couturier Part III"? We need to make this right.

 

[Hexxxy]

Could Coots = Primeau?

 

[LastWordArmy]

Early returns on being the top line centre are promising.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/11/01/sean-couturier-excelling-number-one-center/

 

[Hurricane28]

Oh this thread is going to be fun to go back and read

 

[deadhead]

There's more than 10 #1Cs in the league... that's way too small of a group.

No wonder you keep saying Giroux isn't one anymore...

Just showing how scoring is distributed on top offensive teams.
Players with 50+ ES points are rare these days, an "elite" group, 40-50 is far more common.
Couts was on track for 40 ES points the last two seasons, with top linemates he could hit 50.
Which puts him in the group of top but not elite centers.
Playing on the 1st PP could get his total scoring up to 70+ - but that's why I look at ES scoring separate from PP, PP may depend on the depth of a team and mix of skills, ES scoring reflects how good a center you are.

 

[hatcher]

Great start for the top line period.

 

[Striiker]

Just showing how scoring is distributed on top offensive teams.
Players with 50+ ES points are rare these days, an "elite" group, 40-50 is far more common.
Couts was on track for 40 ES points the last two seasons, with top linemates he could hit 50.
Which puts him in the group of top but not elite centers.
Playing on the 1st PP could get his total scoring up to 70+ - but that's why I look at ES scoring separate from PP, PP may depend on the depth of a team and mix of skills, ES scoring reflects how good a center you are.

PP scoring depends on depth and skill mix but ES scoring doesn't???

What???

 

[Flyotes]

A glimpse back (highlight form):

**Mods, if it isn’t okay to use names, feel free to edit this post how you see fit.**

Negatives:

Ill-structured analytical talk at points.
Psuhockey - ”Couturier is a 3rd line center.”
bb12 - ”Coots isnt going to be a high scoring 2C but he will get the job done”
JohnK - “People have different opinions...deal with it. He has never scored 40 points nor has the skills to play on the power play.” (This hurts, mate.)
Hatcher – “3rd line center.”
Alchemy be doubting!
Ruck Over compares Couts to Joel Otto.
JohnK doubts a spreadsheet.

Positives:

Curu and BringBackBerube both remarked how he’s good in front of the net (gj being right). Later, Beef makes a similar remark (and how they haven’t really put Couts there enough yet). Later later, Beef doubles down on this argument. Looks like Beef was correct.
Cyborg LeClair – “Honestly, id love to see Giroux with Couturier.” (!!)
More props to Curu for his Couts + expected points people want = will need PP1 time.
Appleyard makes the same point.
Appleyard isn’t around enough. Wailing and gnashing of teeth because we always want more Alex.
"Dingus" is used in a post.
A shot at SMantaz is always welcome.
A picture of Couts looking like lumberjack Dexter.

 

[hatcher]

A glimpse back (highlight form):

**Mods, if it isn’t okay to use names, feel free to edit this post how you see fit.**

Negatives:

Ill-structured analytical talk at points.
Psuhockey - ”Couturier is a 3rd line center.”
bb12 - ”Coots isnt going to be a high scoring 2C but he will get the job done”
JohnK - “People have different opinions...deal with it. He has never scored 40 points nor has the skills to play on the power play.” (This hurts, mate.)
Hatcher – “3rd line center.”
Alchemy be doubting!
Ruck Over compares Couts to Joel Otto.
JohnK doubts a spreadsheet.

Positives:

Curu and BringBackBerube both remarked how he’s good in front of the net (gj being right). Later, Beef makes a similar remark (and how they haven’t really put Couts there enough yet). Later later, Beef doubles down on this argument. Looks like Beef was correct.
Cyborg LeClair – “Honestly, id love to see Giroux with Couturier.” (!!)
More props to Curu for his Couts + expected points people want = will need PP1 time.
Appleyard makes the same point.
Appleyard isn’t around enough. Wailing and gnashing of teeth because we always want more Alex.
"Dingus" is used in a post.
A shot at SMantaz is always welcome.
A picture of Couts looking like lumberjack Dexter.

He is a 3rd line center having G healthy for a change making plays. Coots is scoring goals due to awesome plays but isn't really making many good ones himself but it works and he's playing well.

 

[deadhead]

PP scoring depends on depth and skill mix but ES scoring doesn't???

What???

The gap between PP1 and PP2 and no PP explains a lot of scoring differences between players.
You have 3-4 forwards on PP1, and who plays depends on their skill package.
So on a team that has players with skills that fit together on PP1, a better forward could be "exiled" to PP2.
You don't want 4 playmakers or shooters or net guys on the same PP.

So ES scoring is more a measure of overall talent, while PP scoring is more specific to the fit of talents to what's on the roster.
Simmonds for example, is an excellent scorer on the PP but mediocre at ES.

 

[Tripod]

You say that...yet our 1st rd draft pick Laughton cannot fill that role...offensively or defensively at the moment.

I look at it this way...if I had to choose...I keep Couts over Simmonds or BSchenn easily. Well that is a potential 60 point guy and a 50 point guy. Yet every time, I easily keep the 40 point guy who is elite defensively.

I am glad I said this 2 years ago. Same holds true today.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He is a 3rd line center having G healthy for a change making plays. Coots is scoring goals due to awesome plays but isn't really making many good ones himself but it works and he's playing well.

Dude. Really? The guy has perfectly fit as a 1C. If you want to see what it looks like to have a 3C as a 1C go check out what Boston looked like when they had to have Nash play as their top center for a game this year.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

This hot stretch is all thanks to talent that's been carrying him. Goes back even to last season where Weise did all the scoring for him.